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      11-11-2019, 09:23 AM   #23
GtiGyver
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Very sad, and unfortunate. Kids under 25 almost always feel invincible, then this happens.

One thing though. can people in the US stop saying "high rate of speed" ?
It means nothing. High speed, sure. Rate of speed? No.
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      11-11-2019, 09:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP10 View Post


As someone sub 25 with not even a blemish on my driving record I am firmly against the first part of this statement. As for the more stringent drivers training I think that would be fine. Bottom line is some shouldn't be behind the wheel of something so powerful without any experience. I was driving my step dad's '05 viper and '65 cobra kit car around the time I got my license when he would allow me to do so. Now in my 09 M3 if anything I think it lacks power haha. All ages have some shitty drivers, fair way would be the more stringent drivers test in my opinion.
Agreed. There are bad drivers of all ages, better training and stricter requirements to obtain a license would be a much better idea IMO. The HP/weight ratio limits would only punish those who follow the law anyway. Just like how the law says you shouldn't drink and drive, yet a lot of crashes caused by young drivers involve drunks under 21.
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      11-11-2019, 10:13 AM   #25
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This video show the path they took to launch the car into the building. It will give you an ideal how fast they were going and the fact they could not or did not try to slow the car in spite of the skid marks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...cid=spartanntp
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      11-11-2019, 11:12 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
This video show the path they took to launch the car into the building. It will give you an ideal how fast they were going and the fact they could not or did not try to slow the car in spite of the skid marks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...cid=spartanntp
Damn. They were hauling ass.
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      11-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #27
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They were definitely hauling ass. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to have an accident like that.

If you look at maps there was a long straight with a right hand turn where they crashed. I'd guess they got up to speed, driver got caught out a bit at the turn, lift throttle oversteer+cold temps+summer tires and that thing snapped on them. Along for the ride at that point.

Hard lesson. I got lucky as a kid. Plan to have my sons do the extra driving schools (BMWCCA Street Survival school) along with some autocrossing to get an appreciation for car control and just how easy it is to loose control.
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      11-11-2019, 11:52 AM   #28
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My first car was an $800 '67 Dodge Dart with an inline 6 and 3 on the tree. It couldn't get airborne if I drove it off a cliff.

This Porsche incident reminds me of the M5 incident in FL on the runway beside John Travolta's house. That car also went seriously airborne and killed four or five kids if I recall correctly.
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      11-11-2019, 12:03 PM   #29
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It must have been going pretty fast to go airborne like that. From the picture I didn't see any overpass or bridge.
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      11-11-2019, 12:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I definitely think there should be Hp to weight ratio limits for operators under a certain age (maybe 25), unless a set of more stringent driver's training obligations have been met.
I am not sure we should over-complicated. These types of accidents are very rare. It may end up costing millions of dollars to fix a few thousands of dollars.
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      11-11-2019, 12:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unc879wins View Post
I thought it came off an overpass or bridge... article says hit an embankment and got airborne.
Likely that 100+ speeds and losing control, probably resulted in some fishtail/slide and attempted corrections/oscillations that made it worse and then hit something going in that direction to go airborne.
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      11-11-2019, 12:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
My first car was an $800 '67 Dodge Dart with an inline 6 and 3 on the tree. It couldn't get airborne if I drove it off a cliff.

This Porsche incident reminds me of the M5 incident in FL on the runway beside John Travolta's house. That car also went seriously airborne and killed four or five kids if I recall correctly.
My sister's first car was a '69 Dodge Dart. I agree.

And I remember that accident. So sad.
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      11-11-2019, 12:15 PM   #33
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What kind of Porsche was it?
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      11-11-2019, 12:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Wow!

I used to live in the Toms River area. So sorry for the family.

On your supposition, I do not understand why someone with zero driving skill can go out and purchase a 200 MPH car because they have a basic operators license and money. If I had 10 million I couldn't purchase and fly off in a business jet with 60 hours and a basic pilots license. It's insane.
This has been an issue for a long time with sport bikes. You have what amounts to a race bike that the manufacturers slap on head lights, turn signals, and a tag hanger to make it street legal. Overseas, many jurisdictions require a graduated licensing system before you can legally purchase a big sports bike. Other places have either mandatory or gentleman's agreements from the manufacturer to significantly neuter the top end speed of superbikes.
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      11-11-2019, 12:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
What kind of Porsche was it?
I think 2010 Boxster base model. but double chk
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      11-11-2019, 12:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GtiGyver View Post
Very sad, and unfortunate. Kids under 25 almost always feel invincible, then this happens.

One thing though. can people in the US stop saying "high rate of speed" ?
It means nothing. High speed, sure. Rate of speed? No.
Absolutely "high rate of speed" means something. Rate, as in ratio, directly proportionate to the rate in which they were traversing.

Would you rather us say: Extraordinary frequency of haste, great degree of rapidity, elevated proportion of momentum, exceptional percentage of velocity, astounding level of acceleration? I'll stop here but can do this all day. My job is, metaphorically, writing documents to make them sound fancier than they are in reality.
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      11-11-2019, 01:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
It must have been going pretty fast to go airborne like that. From the picture I didn't see any overpass or bridge.
You think? lols

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      11-11-2019, 01:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
This video show the path they took to launch the car into the building. It will give you an ideal how fast they were going and the fact they could not or did not try to slow the car in spite of the skid marks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...cid=spartanntp
Ya. Jumped 2 curbs, through the ravine, cleared the parking lot and into the building. And it appears to be a convertible. They were moving fast and had no chance...
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      11-11-2019, 01:10 PM   #39
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This happened just a few miles from my house, Crazy.... Something catapulted them up besides speed.. Its a straight road where that happened which is crazy..

Heres the spot where it happened, Still crazy they ended up in the second floor...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/14...!4d-74.1708555

Sad, I know its obvious they were doing something unsafe but we've all done the same as kids im sure...
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      11-11-2019, 01:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
My first car was an $800 '67 Dodge Dart with an inline 6 and 3 on the tree. It couldn't get airborne if I drove it off a cliff.

This Porsche incident reminds me of the M5 incident in FL on the runway beside John Travolta's house. That car also went seriously airborne and killed four or five kids if I recall correctly.
I was thinking of the same incident. We discussed it on M5/M6 Board years ago. A while back there were regular deaths of M5/M6 drivers when the cars became very affordable.

Too much HP in the wrong hands equals disaster.
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      11-11-2019, 01:20 PM   #41
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might have been the slight curbing/angle and the driveway that caused the front to lift.
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      11-11-2019, 01:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Absolutely "high rate of speed" means something. Rate, as in ratio, directly proportionate to the rate in which they were traversing.

Would you rather us say: Extraordinary frequency of haste, great degree of rapidity, elevated proportion of momentum, exceptional percentage of velocity, astounding level of acceleration? I'll stop here but can do this all day. My job is, metaphorically, writing documents to make them sound fancier than they are in reality.
Rate of is indeed a ratio.

* Speed is by definition a rate of change of position, therefore already a rate, adding the word rate before this does not add more meaning.
* High speed means high rate of change of position.
* High rate of speed means then, high rate of rate of position.

Can you explain to me how this makes more sense?

The correct terminology is High Speed. Nothing more, nothing less.
eg: High Speed Car Chase. NOT High Rate of Speed Car Chase.



I just don't understand how they could achieve such flight at any speed. I can't see anything that looks like a ramp that could launch them that high.
I know I've done some dumb things when I started driving, but luckily cars just weren't fast enough to cause this kind of catastrophic damage and loss of life.

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      11-11-2019, 01:21 PM   #43
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The greatest reason not to run summer tires in mid November.
Yeah, THAT was it, summer tires. LOL.
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      11-11-2019, 01:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4151zero View Post
might have been the slight curbing/angle and the driveway that caused the front to lift.
The embankment opposite the parking lot from the building is what gave them lift. There is another thread on here with a link that shows photos. Two officers are standing in the dirt that made them airborne.
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