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      07-10-2019, 07:58 PM   #45
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Glenn, I've always give you the benefit of doubt of being thoughtful. In spite of your support of Trump. I have always felt that you are intelligent and thoughtful. I'm not sure, with these recent attacks on me, why you're showing that you're not thoughtful and intelligent. Your latest attack ignores the point I made. Obviously, sir Kim's comments were not made for public consumption. How has he not made relations better with US, besides these comments that were made privately to his government?
This is a "you had one job" failure situation. I'll say it again... An Ambassador's entire reason for existence is to improve relations. No action should even threaten this objective.

It was reckless for Sir Kim to memorialize sensitive criticism in a medium that has now been proven insecure. As Morgan stated in his article; if Kim Sir Kim felt it necessary to communicate this (completely non-proprietary) information, then he should have done it in person or at least verbally.

Sir Kim completely and utterly failed at his job. Period.

Oh yea- I truthfully think there was complement in your post. For that I truly think you. No sarcasm.
Again.....outside of this leak, what did Sir Kim do to set back relations, or fail at his job.
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      07-11-2019, 12:26 AM   #46
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Sounds like you and RD are mixing up an ambassador and an intelligence officer. As Morgan said so eloquently... The core mission of an ambassador is to reduce tensions, not inflame them. He couldn't have failed more miserably. What an embarrassment for the UK. 🤦🏻*♂️
I don't believe so and I still stand by my comments.
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      07-11-2019, 01:18 AM   #47
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Let's see, who would I listen to, Piers Morgan, a tabloid journalist and good friend of Trump with absolutely NO diplomatic experience, or maybe some people with actual diplomatic experience such as Richard Haass and Gerard Araud.



Veteran diplomats defended Darroch’s confidential memos – in which he referred to the Trump administration as “incompetent” and “inept” – as the nature of an ambassador’s job.

“He reported as he saw fit, he advised as he saw fit, and he did it on a classified cable,” said Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations and former US diplomat. “This is what ambassadors are meant to do.

“He doesn’t do the prime minister or the foreign minister any favors if he doesn’t give his honest take or his honest advice,” Haass added. “It’s not his fault the cable leaked.”

The senior civil servant at the Foreign Office called a meeting of all staff to reassure diplomats unnerved by the shock resignation and its potential impact on British state craft.

Sir Christopher Meyer, a former British ambassador, tweeted: “An utter outrage that Kim Darroch has been brought down by a disgraceful leak and the vindictive reaction of the US President. Sir Kim is blameless in this sorry affair.”

-------------------------


Or this from the NY Times:



WASHINGTON — Ask members of the Washington diplomatic corps about the cables that Sir Kim Darroch, the British ambassador who resigned Wednesday, wrote to London describing the dysfunction and chaos of the Trump administration, and their response is uniform: We wrote the same stuff.

“Yes, yes, everyone does,” Gérard Araud, who retired this spring as the French ambassador, said on Wednesday morning of his own missives from Washington. “But fortunately I knew that nothing would remain secret, so I sent them in a most confidential manner.”

So did Mr. Darroch, who, alone and with Mr. Araud, tried to navigate the minefield of serving as the chief representative of a longtime American ally to a president who does not think much of the value of alliances.

Mr. Darroch submitted his resignation the morning after Boris Johnson, who this month is likely to become Britain’s next prime minister, notably declined during a televised debate to defend the diplomat and also refused to criticize President Trump.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lomacy-experts

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/w...register-email

NOTE: There is some really interesting reading in each article about where some of Darroch's comments come from in reference to Trump's administration.
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      07-11-2019, 07:34 AM   #48
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https://apnews.com/3ab0a1aec738442592b8f69c656fe231
WASHINGTON (AP) — In America's deeply divided capital city, British Ambassador Kim Darroch was often the bridge.........
Although much of Washington expected Trump to lose to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election, Darroch spent that summer and fall building relationships with the billionaire businessman's friends and advisers. He mingled on the floor of the Republican convention in Cleveland and got to know Trump's political advisers and longtime friends, including Newt Gingrich
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      07-11-2019, 08:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
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Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
An ambassador SHOULD be expected to provide a frank and honest assessment of the government in which they are working with.
Sounds like you and RD are mixing up an ambassador and an intelligence officer. As Morgan said so eloquently... The core mission of an ambassador is to reduce tensions, not inflame them. He couldn't have failed more miserably. What an embarrassment for the UK. 🤦🏻*♂️
When did sir Kim publicly make these derogatory comments? Then tell me about my mixup.
The core mission of a diplomat is to improve relations. He completely failed. A fair and knowledgeable person would be able to acknowledge this. I'm not surprised you can't.
You and your so called internet knowledge. Ambassadors try to get friendly with all the ppl in power (all parties and sides) so they can give direct opinion of other countries leaders and politics back to the motherland. That is corr mission along with giving assistance to their own citizens as core mission. You can think of an ambassador as a sort of official spy

Yes I have direct knowledge of what their job is. But thanks for your as usual 100% dead wrong opinion of any given situation Your track record on being wrong about everything is amazing I give you that
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      07-11-2019, 08:50 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
You and your so called internet knowledge. Ambassadors try to get friendly with all the ppl in power (all parties and sides) so they can give direct opinion of other countries leaders and politics back to the motherland. That is corr mission along with giving assistance to their own citizens as core mission. You can think of an ambassador as a sort of official spy

Yes I have direct knowledge of what their job is. But thanks for your as usual 100% dead wrong opinion of any given situation Your track record on being wrong about everything is amazing I give you that
American politics in a nutshell.
Immigration problem example

Trump. We have a problem with the border and influx of migrants

Democrats. There is no problem, Trump is racist. We wont work with him.

Few months go by.

Democrats. There is a problem at the border. Trump created the problem and he is a racist that seperates kids from their parents. We wont work with him but will show up and cry in front of empty parking lots.

Uk Embassador. Trump is inept and London does not have a problem with stabbings

And the circle jerk continues.
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Last edited by Delta0311; 07-11-2019 at 09:25 AM..
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      07-11-2019, 09:08 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
https://apnews.com/3ab0a1aec738442592b8f69c656fe231
WASHINGTON (AP) — In America's deeply divided capital city, British Ambassador Kim Darroch was often the bridge.........
Although much of Washington expected Trump to lose to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election, Darroch spent that summer and fall building relationships with the billionaire businessman's friends and advisers. He mingled on the floor of the Republican convention in Cleveland and got to know Trump's political advisers and longtime friends, including Newt Gingrich
But wait, Piers said he was doing it all wrong!
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      07-11-2019, 10:03 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
You and your so called internet knowledge. Ambassadors try to get friendly with all the ppl in power (all parties and sides) so they can give direct opinion of other countries leaders and politics back to the motherland. That is corr mission along with giving assistance to their own citizens as core mission. You can think of an ambassador as a sort of official spy

Yes I have direct knowledge of what their job is. But thanks for your as usual 100% dead wrong opinion of any given situation Your track record on being wrong about everything is amazing I give you that
American politics in a nutshell.
Immigration problem example

Trump. We have a problem with the border and influx of migrants

Democrats. There is no problem, Trump is racist. We wont work with him.

Few months go by.

Democrats. There is a problem at the border. Trump created the problem and he is a racist that seperates kids from their parents. We wont work with him but will show up and cry in front of empty parking lots.

Uk Embassador. Trump is inept and London does not have a problem with stabbings

And the circle jerk continues.
Why can't both sides be crazy?

You are very smart guy but you make it sound like one side is crazy and one is righteous. They are burg crazy liars and exaggerators.

In this case of ambassador he is literally just doing his job for his country. Why should we care anyway. This is what they are saying between each other. You know ppl in restaurants of London are saying same thing to each other everyday. So what. To me it just sounds like a sick patient (us) getting mad when getting a bad diagnosis
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      07-11-2019, 10:42 AM   #53
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Why can't both sides be crazy?

You are very smart guy but you make it sound like one side is crazy and one is righteous. They are burg crazy liars and exaggerators.

In this case of ambassador he is literally just doing his job for his country. Why should we care anyway. This is what they are saying between each other. You know ppl in restaurants of London are saying same thing to each other everyday. So what. To me it just sounds like a sick patient (us) getting mad when getting a bad diagnosis
Good example.
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      07-11-2019, 10:55 AM   #54
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The Ambassador made a very fair assessment of the administration. I don't even think he had any reason to lie or mislead anyone. It was just unfortunate for him that the content was leaked.

I see some forum members natural reaction is to attack the country he is from instead of disproving his assessment with facts. What are you 5?
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      07-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #55
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The ambassador was well regarded in his field. The twitter onslaught from Trump against he and the leaked documents just made the situation worse, and draws attention to the administration in a negative manner.
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      07-11-2019, 11:35 AM   #56
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Who gives a fuck what the UK ambassador thinks..
The ultra thin skinned Donald does.
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      07-11-2019, 11:53 AM   #57
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Hierarchy of Communication in organizations with security concerns.

1. Face to Face conversation in a secure room.
2. Face to Face conversation in an otherwise normal environment with precautions.
3. Official Secure Phone
4. Scrambled phone.
5. Email/Text secure.
6. Hard copy.

This was taught to me as a rep at an organization with much less to lose than say, England.

This goes into the categories of 1 or 2 and becomes institutional knowledge which is transferred to those in the need-to-know, verbally. I am paid to advise people/organizations and there are some things I don't write down but rather tell them verbally. He should have known better.

Cheers-mk
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      07-11-2019, 12:37 PM   #58
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If only Sir Kim Darroch had finished by saying, "grab them by the p***y". Trump would have given him a high-five and it would have all blown over.
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      07-11-2019, 01:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Hierarchy of Communication in organizations with security concerns.

1. Face to Face conversation in a secure room.
2. Face to Face conversation in an otherwise normal environment with precautions.
3. Official Secure Phone
4. Scrambled phone.
5. Email/Text secure.
6. Hard copy.

This was taught to me as a rep at an organization with much less to lose than say, England.

This goes into the categories of 1 or 2 and becomes institutional knowledge which is transferred to those in the need-to-know, verbally. I am paid to advise people/organizations and there are some things I don't write down but rather tell them verbally. He should have known better.

Cheers-mk
I don't think he needs to fly back to England to let them know face to face Trump is a putz.That is not some national security top secret issue. As has been reported by more than one diplomat, they all give the same assessments pretty much the same way. The issue is not that he said it, it is that someone leaked it.
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      07-11-2019, 02:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
I don't think he needs to fly back to England to let them know face to face Trump is a putz.That is not some national security top secret issue. As has been reported by more than one diplomat, they all give the same assessments pretty much the same way. The issue is not that he said it, it is that someone leaked it.
Big difference between stunt double #4 saying something and the #1 guy on the team.
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      07-11-2019, 03:30 PM   #61
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Big difference between stunt double #4 saying something and the #1 guy on the team.
Not sure what you're alluding to. Please explain.
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      07-11-2019, 03:32 PM   #62
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Not sure what you're alluding to. Please explain.
Stunt double #4 = some diplomat.

#1 guy on the team = The Ambassador.

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      07-11-2019, 03:48 PM   #63
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Big difference between stunt double #4 saying something and the #1 guy on the team.
What are there, something like 188 ambassadors just for the U S alone? So each time they have something that might be sensitive to say about the big cheese they are to call for a meeting, hop a flight, and come on back? Seriously? Just think how many times a week something sensitive is probably said? Good grief, the line at Pompeo's and Trump's offices would be down the hall and out the door just for these silly meetings. Now multiply that by every country from around the world and all their ambassadors. What a colossal cluster fuck and waste of resources. Just send the cable like has been done for decades.
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      07-12-2019, 08:38 AM   #64
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Sounds to me as if this is a situation where trump and his cultists can't handle the truth about what others think about trump. Put on your big boy pants and accept that the emperor has no clothing.
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      07-12-2019, 10:25 AM   #65
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Sounds to me as if this is a situation where trump and his cultists can't handle the truth about what others think about trump. Put on your big boy pants and accept that the emperor has no clothing.
Talk to me come election day when we put on our big boy pants and have Trump bend you over and spank you again. Shall we post more pics of libtrats crying the last time he whooped that ass.
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      07-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
What are there, something like 188 ambassadors just for the U S alone? So each time they have something that might be sensitive to say about the big cheese they are to call for a meeting, hop a flight, and come on back? Seriously? Just think how many times a week something sensitive is probably said? Good grief, the line at Pompeo's and Trump's offices would be down the hall and out the door just for these silly meetings. Now multiply that by every country from around the world and all their ambassadors. What a colossal cluster fuck and waste of resources. Just send the cable like has been done for decades.
As someone who has been in situations where I've flown across country to have a 30 minute meeting on a critical item, I don't think as most do on this.


I will spell it out. The Ambassador of England to the United States has a critical and potentially inflammatory report to provide to his boss on the President of the lone superpower in the world who also happens to be our most important ally. If this doesn't warrant a flight, few other things will.

Cheers-mk
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