MHD, Flex Fuel and Factory DME pi control is here

[martymil]

You heard but the details are light till its released very soon

Copy and pasted from another source

Hey guys,

The time has finally come to share some details on my secret N54 project. It's been under development for many months now, and had no shortage of both hardware and software (mainly software Click here to enlarge) obstacles to overcome. That said, a major milestone was reached this week so it's time to let you all in! Coming soon to a stock DME near you:

Yep, real Flex Fuel. It is a fully implemented flex fuel solution, running on the stock DME! Dial your car in on pump (91-93oct), then E85, set the blending / interpolation curve tables, and be on your way. The benefits here are never having to reflash when changing ethanol blends again (or even worry about mixing the correct blend). Go from straight 93oct to 100% E85 or E98 on the same flash Click here to enlarge

This is up and running on a few IJE0S cars now and works flawlessly. There is still some more work to be done, and of course porting to the other ROM types will take a good bit of time. Some hardware details are in need of finalization as well. More to come on those items in the weeks to follow.
Some overall highlights and features of this accomplishment:

first DME integration with a 3rd party sensor
first large scale rewrite and modification of DME logic
direct logging of Ethanol Content % in MHD
separate blending / interpolation per table grouping
seamless blending between maps for any ethanol content


I'd also like to give a big thanks to @Chris@CKI for his help in testing and flashing my countless revisions at all hours of the day, and also to @martial@mhd for assembly code and hex conversion help along the way! In case you haven't guessed, this will be a module available in MHD similar to M-Boost.

[questionable]

ok wow this is massive

[OzJustin]

Wow super exciting news!

Where it says 'set the blending tables' - Am I understanding correctly that the DME will automatically calculate the E85 % and compensate accordingly? Will we have to do any % calculation based on litres and input or is it all automated through the DME and a flex fuel sensor?

[martymil]

From how I understand it you have to tune your car for 98 and a separate tune for e85 and then you have to scale the two maps into one flash

So quite involved and time consuming

[MR RIZK]

thats actually pretty cool.. if they ever develop realtime tuning for the oem dme the overall solution will be awesome.

[martymil]

That will never happen

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by OzJustin

Wow super exciting news!

Where it says 'set the blending tables' - Am I understanding correctly that the DME will automatically calculate the E85 % and compensate accordingly? Will we have to do any % calculation based on litres and input or is it all automated through the DME and a flex fuel sensor?

Flex sensor into an ethanol content analyser, puts a voltage to a pin in the DME all automatically

You do one full tune for 98, one full tune of E85 on new duplicated tables (so timing, load, AFR, probably a fair few others so it's all perfect like vanos)

Then there's brand new tables for what % ethanol you want to run what % of the ethanol tables values on top of the 98 values

So say 98 you're running 10 degrees and E85 you run 20.. you set it so say E15 is 5%, 30 is 30%, 45 is 50%, etc up to E85 100%... It then scales between the 98 and E85 tables so 5% being 0.5 additional degree, 30% 3, up to the full extra 10 at 85%>... Then you might run different values on the load table, so you add more boost at lower E%, but less timing.

[CashedUpBogan]

Your title is incorrect. There is no DME PI control... yet

[martymil]

Suppose to be, they announced it but still not here

But it's still going to be the silly aic controller interfaced by the dme

It's still not as good as the JB4 intergration as there are extra safety's in place
whilst using the JB4 but with both setups there is no Pi safety cut during a Di shutdown

Hope you you guys like melted pistons with your motors

I've been fighting for this feature for close to a year, numerous threads on the forums on this but it seems no one cares about ours motors possibly melting down

[titium]

Originally Posted by martymil

I've been fighting for this feature for close to a year, numerous threads on the forums on this but it seems no one cares about ours motors possibly melting down

I thinking people care it's just in the too hard /not possible basket.

ideally a hpfp solution would be a much better option.

[martymil]

What needs to happen is people stop buying the current solutions for them to fix it, if people stop buying then they might pull their finger out.

A better HPFP would be but not the current available solution, the only thing its good for is a race car or a dyno run

Its like the pi backfires that they fixed I was told i was the only one that experienced it and no one else

I made my self vocal about it and it got fixed eventually and more people came out and said they had the same problem

We need to voice our concerns, because if everybody keeps quiet about it not to hurt peoples feelings nothing will ever get done.

[CashedUpBogan]

you state DME PI control. What you should state is flash only PI control, which has been out for a long time.

Having something like an AIC, or JB4 or fuel-it! controller as a slave controller converting the information does not in any way equal DME PI control.

DME PI control is and has been worked on behind the scenes. Whether or not it ever comes to fruition is another story. It doesn't matter how vocal you are or what happened to you. You are insignificant to the process. You are barking up the wrong tree.

If you're really worried about melted engines, then don't run PI. Take a gamble, run the VTT double barrel kit. Or go hassle Syvecs to either get back on developing their standalone for N54. Or ask the for one of their non production ready units that work but have issues.

[martymil]

I didn't state anything just repeating what they announced and until they release the full details all we can is piece together the little info they release here and there

The second solution lets not go there

Syvecs would be ideal but they should have been quiet about it till they where close to release and until they do or if they do they are being tight lipped about it.

Im not running pi anymore due to this until some one releases a proper solution as first and second solutions aren't implemented properly for safe street use

In racing environments they do work but I wouldn't call it a good solution but one that works as long as everything is running 100% perfect

[titium]

Originally Posted by martymil

The second solution lets not go there

is there something wrong with the double barrel shotgun kit from vtt?

[martymil]

don't expect your over driven pump to last long

good for a race car or a weekender but there is a few improvements I would make, like changing the fuel hose to a hard line, 3000+psi of fuel through a hose is not the same as 3000+psi of oil what the hose is rated for

It will hold but I don't feel comfortable running that kind of fuel pressure through a rubber hose and that's why manufactures of cars all use stainless steel lines.

I wouldn't use this kind of setup on a daily driven car

[Brule]

The 1 review of the single barrel external of vtt stated he had an untrue shaft or balance causing issues.

Vtt sent him another one and it was the same.

No one else has reviewed it to my knowledge.

[martymil]

I spoke to a guy in Melbourne that had numerous issues and it cost him a shitload of money

I'm not going to bad mouth a product, as that was a long time ago

[titium]

Interesting... I asked on another forum about not overdriving the pump and just running two pumps. All i got was this condescending response from Tony.

"I'm not quite sure you understand how the system works. The shotgun is able to flow the fuel it does because the pump is overdriven. We have not had a single pump fail in 2.5 years from being spun on the belt. The only people questioning over driving the pump are people who have never run it. Its a great system, and extremely reliable"

[martymil]

I know exactly how it works but im not going to voice my opinions on here as when you know the saying

That's one opinion on the reliability of a pump 2.5 years and 2.5k or 2.5 years and 50k on the clock very different

I had two pumps fail and the sec one didn't even do 10k at stock speeds so how is an overdriven pump going to last

[CashedUpBogan]

Originally Posted by martymil

I didn't state anything just repeating what they announced and until they release the full details all we can is piece together the little info they release here and there

The second solution lets not go there

Syvecs would be ideal but they should have been quiet about it till they where close to release and until they do or if they do they are being tight lipped about it.

Im not running pi anymore due to this until some one releases a proper solution as first and second solutions aren't implemented properly for safe street use

In racing environments they do work but I wouldn't call it a good solution but one that works as long as everything is running 100% perfect

Are you serious? You didn't state anything? It's in your title. "Factory DME PI control is here" You're the only person on Earth to say that and it is completely wrong.

It's great you wanna share information but if you don't have any idea what you're talking about and just copying an pasting from other sources, don't make up your own statements and spread misinformation.

[CashedUpBogan]

Originally Posted by martymil

I spoke to a guy in Melbourne that had numerous issues and it cost him a shitload of money

I'm not going to bad mouth a product, as that was a long time ago

Curious to know what problems this guy had. Who was he and how did you come across him? I'd like to talk to him as I am considering trying the double barrel kit that they state has been revised slightly.

Like Brule stated, there only seems to be one review out there. No one is game to try it, but they're pulling 800hp on DI only without PI. It's highly intriguing.

Something to note is that their first iteration was purely a hardware upgrade AFAIK. The current setup utilises a PI controller like AIC to slowly bring in the second HPFP to maintain fuel pressure.

Titium raised a valid question on why the second HPFP needs to be overdriven. Don't know why Tony didn't just give a straight answer.

[CashedUpBogan]

Marty you said you know exactly how it works.
Can you explain for us why the second HPFP can't just be run at normal speeds without being overdriven? Have you physically looked at one?

HPFPs are prone to failure as they are already I'm sure we're all aware and I agree with Marty, it really doesn't sound like a good solution, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Why can't someone engineer a great HPFP upgrade so we don't need to think about all this PI nonsense