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[02rsxpilot]

Ever since I had my M3 control arms installed, my inside edges appear to be wearing at an alarming rate. Combined with Dinan camber plates, I'm at -2.2 camber up front, which I didn't think was that aggressive. My toe is set to slightly IN.

So in two months, I've gone from mostly even wear with about -1.2 camber to this (see photo below). I drive about 250 miles a week, much of that on the freeway. I had one track day in those two months and the front grip was excellent, much better than before the M3 arms.

Issue? Too much camber for the softness of the tire? Too much camber for that much street use? Toe off?

I'm hoping I don't need to go to an adjustable camber plate (that's later in the mod evolution of my car), but these Dunlops are almost done and I do not want my next set of tires to wear this uneven. I'd be open to dropping to something like a Michelin PSS if a slightly harder compound would make a difference.

Thanks in advance all for your opinions.

The below photo is of my driver's side front tire, taken from next to the passenger door.


Here are the alignment specs from February (their printer ran out of ink):

[dcaron9999]

Time to rotate your ZII's from inside to outside (swith the fronts between driver and passenger side). Looks like your "toe in" is accelerating your wear more than your camber. Might want to set it for 0 toe. You will get a little bit of tramlining or bump steer over uneven pavement.

What width are you fronts and rears?

My ZII's are a square set of 255/35R18 mounted on rear style 261's (18x8.5 ET52) , with -3.2* camber and 0 toe in the front, -2* camber and .12* toe in the rear.

Tires last about 6 months of heavy track and moderate street use. They do not wear evenly either, but I rotate them front to rear as much as possible, and at least once from side to side (due to costs of unmounting and balancing).

Im at the wear bars currently, but will run them to the cords at the track before replacement with Dunlop ZII Star Specs or Bridgestone RE-71R, because in the 255/35R18 size, EP tires cost a pretty penny...

[02rsxpilot]

These are 225/40s up front. My hesitation in rotating them side to side is that puts my worn side on the outside edge where I need them to be good on track.

After doing some Googling, I'm sort of relieved to see quite a bit of evidence that this is wear consistent with excessive toe in. I asked for 1/32nd total toe in and it looks like they only managed 1/8th which is pretty far off. The good news is they also said -2.2 was as little camber as they could get, which means it should be pretty easy to just dial in a little more camber, bringing the toe out a little, and see if that helps.

Ideally I'd have adjustable camber plates (and track wheels/tires) but wife wants a house.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

These are 225/40s up front. My hesitation in rotating them side to side is that puts my worn side on the outside edge where I need them to be good on track.

Good point. Your decent camber should help minimize outside edge wear, but these are still skinny tires, in relation to your rears which are probably 245/35 or 255/35. You will work them much harder, the larger you width difference front to back. Monitor your tire pressure closely, each time you get off the track. Keep it under 38PSI "hot".

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

After doing some Googling, I'm sort of relieved to see quite a bit of evidence that this is wear consistent with excessive toe in. I asked for 1/32nd total toe in and it looks like they only managed 1/8th which is pretty far off. The good news is they also said -2.2 was as little camber as they could get, which means it should be pretty easy to just dial in a little more camber, bringing the toe out a little, and see if that helps.

That sounds like excessive toe in, which is detrimental to track use, but give yous better striaght line stability, at the expense of inner tire wear, as you just experienced.

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

Ideally I'd have adjustable camber plates (and track wheels/tires) but wife wants a house.

Camber plates wont help with your front toe adjustments. Toe is adjusted with a few twists of your tie rod bolts.

[02rsxpilot]

My shop guy hasn't seen the tires yet, but he pretty much insists inside wear is almost always due to camber, not toe. But when I look at them, as you can see in the photo, the wear is very concentrated on the inside shoulders, whereas to me, camber wear would be more linear across the tread, right? By the time you measure tread depth at the center grooves, there is almost no difference.

I'm not too concerned about these tires. I'm hoping they'll survive through my Laguna Seca date on May 15, after that the set is probably getting replaced anyway. I just want to make sure my next set isn't wearing at the same rate.

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Camber plates wont help with your front toe adjustments. Toe is adjusted with a few twists of your tie rod bolts.

This is true, but camber plates would allow me to set the car up for conservative alignment for my daily driving (a little camber and a little toe in) and then shift it when I get to the track to more camber (which necessarily moves toe out).

[02rsxpilot]

Well well well, proof in the pudding here for why it pays to be curious!

I had three different experts look at my photo and alignment sheet and all three said the wear was due to camber. However, it turns out that alignment sheet was misleading as you can see below that somehow the toe spec went way out (or should I say, in) which almost certainly was the reason my inside front edges went almost bald in just two months of driving.



The only guess is the bushings in the M3 arms needed to break in, so for anyone doing that upgrade, pay attention to tire wear in the weeks after and get the alignment re-checked if necessary.

Now that the issue is corrected, I'm optimistic this alignment will prove decent enough on track and not destroy my tires on the street. Time will tell. New tires will probably be going on in late May if I can make these ZIIs last 'til then.

[Eyeman]

That's interesting. I ate up my first few sets of fronts trying to get my toe right. I blamed the alignment shops but I went to supposedly the best shop in town after installing the M3 front control arms. I had a set of rear tires that lasted as long as two sets of fronts. I blamed the shop but maybe it was control arm/bushing break in?

Now I have the opposite problems after I went to max rear camber to fit bigger tires. This modding stuff can be a pain..lol.

[iturbo_bmw]

Originally Posted by Eyeman

That's interesting. I ate up my first few sets of fronts trying to get my toe right. I blamed the alignment shops but I went to supposedly the best shop in town after installing the M3 front control arms. I had a set of rear tires that lasted as long as two sets of fronts. I blamed the shop but maybe it was control arm/bushing break in?

Now I have the opposite problems after I went to max rear camber to fit bigger tires. This modding stuff can be a pain..lol.

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

Well well well, proof in the pudding here for why it pays to be curious!

I had three different experts look at my photo and alignment sheet and all three said the wear was due to camber. However, it turns out that alignment sheet was misleading as you can see below that somehow the toe spec went way out (or should I say, in) which almost certainly was the reason my inside front edges went almost bald in just two months of driving.



The only guess is the bushings in the M3 arms needed to break in, so for anyone doing that upgrade, pay attention to tire wear in the weeks after and get the alignment re-checked if necessary.

Now that the issue is corrected, I'm optimistic this alignment will prove decent enough on track and not destroy my tires on the street. Time will tell. New tires will probably be going on in late May if I can make these ZIIs last 'til then.

sorry to bump an old thread, but i am having the same issue with my front tires. i think it may have started happening after i stalled my controll arms. I wanted to ask how your tire wear was after that alignment?

i've tried running 1/32 toe out, 0 toe, and 1/32 toe in and the very inner portion of my tires keeps wearing out. any advise would be appreciated.

i've started a thread here
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1379803

[juld0zer]

That toe setting would wear the outer edges more rapidly. Toe out (negative toe) is what scrubs the inner edges quickly. Your increased camber certainly doesn't help - i'm back at about 1.5* camber to help with this.

How long did you drive on the M3 lower arms until you had an alignment?

PSS, due to their tread design will also wear rapidly on the inside section. The outer section has quite a bit more rubber to spread the load

[Sancs]

Hi! Just put de m3 front control arms and dinan camber plates, all with stock suspension.

I had an alignment but i think they didnt make it right

I dont know what camber, caster or toe to put

I use the car 70 track and 30 street

They put:
Front left:
-2.22°
Front right:
-2.35°

Rear left:
-2.25°
Rear right:
-2.34°

They also put negative toe in the left and possitive in the right

I need to go back in 3 days so they dont charge me again for the work

Thank you!!

[juld0zer]

Another possibility is the problem has to do with the changed scrub radius, since the lower arm does change the king pin inclination (lower ball joint shifted further outwards due to the M3 lower arms' longer length).

Since you also have camber plates which again changes the KPI. If you have spacers, aftermarket or non original rims, wider tyres etc that will further change the scrub radius.

I only suggest this alternative view because i have noticed a similar thing when i ran 245/35-18 all round on 261M wheels.
The things which affected scrub radius for me were:
- Wider tyres on wider rims with different offset to original proper fronts
- 10mm spacers to clear brakes and struts
- Adjustable camber/caster top mounts
- M3 control arms

I only had 2* of static camber on the front, zero track days and very few spirited drives.

In theory, if you were to swap the front fenders to accomodate M3/1M stock rims and 245/40-19 front tyres with no camber plates it should wear identically to an M3/1M.