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      11-04-2018, 01:19 PM   #155
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i'd be down for trying a 1M zb number on my 135. Google directs most to this thread.

I'm interested in this change in CBC.
And now that I have all working I can view braking pressures, need to learn how to log them though,,, just not safe otherwise.
I would say my end goal (long term) is to get to a reliable 1G cornering with a single button press.
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      12-15-2018, 12:54 PM   #156
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Ok guys. I want to give you an update on my latest findings. This is definitely good news from where im sitting. I recently learned how to calibrate the steering angle sensor with ISTA d. After doing so, I noticed my cars braking actions wasn't as severe when cornering. It allowed to drive with more speed around corners. The system still applied braking force at some point but the drive felt overall better.

Now the really good news. I was in the dsc module going through each coding option and trying many different values to see what would help reduce power cuts during everyday normal driving and abnormal driving. Lol! Keep in mind, I've done this many times already in the past. I decided to give Dynamic Braking Control(DBC) another try. To my surprise, all of the continuous braking action I normally feel part throttle and full throttle appears to be gone! This is with dsc on, dtc on and dsc off. Car feels normal. Drives smooth and accelerates faster. The axle is released to put the power down now like it should without the wiggley laggy feeling!

My dsc module is MK60 97 COA. Parameters may appear slightly different in your module.
You want to look for is something like DBC min ausloesedruck which means bring on/operation force, strain or pressure. From factory mine is set as wert 01 value E4. The value is what's important not the wert. The data range is from 00-ff. I set my min DBC to a value of 00 which turns the feature all the way down. FF applies more pressure on the axle.

This doesn't eliminate all dsc nannies but It sure feels good accelerating without being held back by braking. Some safeties are needed on this car even with dsc off. I read in ISTA the steering angle should be calibrated after making changes to dsc. So this must have helped. See explanation of DBC.

Dynamic Brake Control (DBC).
When, in an emergency, you apply the brake pedal quickly and with force but without really further increasing brake pressure, Dynamic Brake Control (DBC) instantly builds up maximum brake pressure, bringing your BMW more quickly to a halt.

Even when the driver fails to press on the brake pedal with adequate force, DBC ensures the braking distance will be a short as possible. The DBC control unit adjusts braking pressure to suit the current speed of the vehicle and the brake's level of wear. Furthermore, the DBC computer is networked with the vehicle's other chassis control systems, such as Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and the anti-lock brake system (ABS), which work together to ensure the highest levels of driving safety.
Dynamic Brake Control (DBC) supports the driver actively and reliably when braking in an emergency. By electronically monitoring the speed and pressure with which the driver applies the brake pedal, it is able to recognise an emergency braking situation - and instantly ensures that full braking power is applied to the wheels. This automatically puts the brake force into the ABS range of control.
This process ensures that the stopping distance is not lengthened unnecessarily by abrupt braking. Whether the driver applies the brakes quickly or slowly, the system responds to the driver’s actions automatically and ends brake pressure buildup via DBC.

The truth is DBC is active 100% of the time and that's why it responds to pedal input so fast.
Some give this a shot and let me know if it helps.
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      12-15-2018, 01:52 PM   #157
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I just got finished driving in wet conditions. There is still some assistance to slow the car down slightly in certain turns and on some acceleration, DSC off. DME is not dumping the power down all at once. This is needed in the wet and it still drives way better and faster. I didn't do any full throttle pulls due to conditions. Car is more enjoyable and fun to drive now. Only been driving on new setup for a few days
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      12-27-2018, 05:49 PM   #158
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C0C_DBC_MIN_AUSLOESEDRUCK is set to 0 on mine and according to NCS Dummy it is the only available option. But mine is MK60_87.C0C which I believe is newer DSC firmware version. Yours was the last one that had 01 as default. Did they remove this safety feature?! I would prefer to have it during normal driving.


By assuming, the letters correspond to firmware version, there are quite a few newer firmware versions available (according to NCS dummy). Now I want to upgrade the firmware!! since I have other issues:
#1 sudden short negative torque intervention on the first wheel spin and then it is normal.
#2 When Sport button is On AND DTC is On, the throttle response is no longer sporty (link)
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      12-27-2018, 06:19 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzid_ View Post
C0C_DBC_MIN_AUSLOESEDRUCK is set to 0 on mine and according to NCS Dummy it is the only available option. But mine is MK60_87.C0C which I believe is newer DSC firmware version. Yours was the last one that had 01 as default. Did they remove this safety feature?! I would prefer to have it during normal driving.


By assuming, the letters correspond to firmware version, there are quite a few newer firmware versions available (according to NCS dummy). Now I want to upgrade the firmware!! since I have other issues:
#1 sudden short negative torque intervention on the first wheel spin and then it is normal.
#2 When Sport button is On AND DTC is On, the throttle response is no longer sporty (link)
Are you getting torque intervention with dsc completely disabled?
Yes your firmware would be year and model specific. I have a 2007.
I only had 1 value for my car too.
I manually added the data value 00. The range is hexidecimal 00-FF. FF being the most intrusive braking action. 00 being the least intrusive. Hover your mouse over the wert to see what the value is. The wert is just a label not the function and doesnt mean much. The value is what controls the feature.
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      01-28-2019, 01:47 PM   #160
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OK everyone, just looking for a solid answer on this as all of the previous posts have been less than clear on the subject:

If you install a mechanical LSD in a 128i can you actually fully code out rear brake intervention?

Fully meaning, ZERO intervention whatsoever during autox, drifto fun, or anything with the DSC button off for 3 seconds. Most posts clearly state the ecu is still brake dancing to some degree while some have said it works. I'm about to purchase a stellar low mile 6MT 128i and this is an absolute deal breaker for me buying this car. I just want a basic NA RWD car thats skids without ANY electronic BS. Help!
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      01-28-2019, 09:08 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusexiges View Post
OK everyone, just looking for a solid answer on this as all of the previous posts have been less than clear on the subject:

If you install a mechanical LSD in a 128i can you actually fully code out rear brake intervention?

Fully meaning, ZERO intervention whatsoever during autox, drifto fun, or anything with the DSC button off for 3 seconds. Most posts clearly state the ecu is still brake dancing to some degree while some have said it works. I'm about to purchase a stellar low mile 6MT 128i and this is an absolute deal breaker for me buying this car. I just want a basic NA RWD car thats skids without ANY electronic BS. Help!


Well, I'm ice racing my 135i with the rear 'nannies' ON and a MFactory (Torsen style) LSD.
I would not change a thing with the way it works. I really feel there is a balance/understanding gap between diff fluids and the Edif action. My opinion is that selecting the right fluid for your engagement requirement is a necessity.


I tried the OE BMW (non-lsd) fluid, Redline Lightweight and Redline Super Lightweight. I like the engagement of the super the best with the ediff.
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      01-29-2019, 01:53 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
Well, I'm ice racing my 135i with the rear 'nannies' ON and a MFactory (Torsen style) LSD.
I would not change a thing with the way it works. I really feel there is a balance/understanding gap between diff fluids and the Edif action. My opinion is that selecting the right fluid for your engagement requirement is a necessity.


I tried the OE BMW (non-lsd) fluid, Redline Lightweight and Redline Super Lightweight. I like the engagement of the super the best with the ediff.
That is weird because a torsion style LSD behavior shouldn't change with fluid like a clutch style differential. E-diff behavior wouldn't chance either as it's using the brakes to bias torque.

In these applications I would think fluid is acting as gear oil and nothing more.
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      01-30-2019, 02:53 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
That is weird because a torsion style LSD behavior shouldn't change with fluid like a clutch style differential. E-diff behavior wouldn't chance either as it's using the brakes to bias torque.

In these applications I would think fluid is acting as gear oil and nothing more.


The diff is friction based engagement. Change the rate of friction change the engagement.
It's the same thing and playing with preload on a clutch diff.
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      01-27-2020, 04:14 PM   #164
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Aloha, newbie here.

Stoked to find this info. Bought a n55 135i recently and took it out for an autox. Dct car, held the dtc button until the triangle came on and still felt like I had quite a bit of intervention. Most noticeably in a 2nd gear slalam section that required a quick stab at the brakes and aggressive left right left steering input. Pretty much the exact sort of behavior that BMW would try to save us from in normal road use. The result was a very big delay in power delivery.

I am not really interested in digging in to any programming, just want to go play at the auto x occasionally. Any more buttons to push or fuses to pull (just at the track) that will help a Little? Still plenty fun as is, just curious.

Mahalo.
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      01-28-2020, 01:34 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hep View Post
Aloha, newbie here.

Stoked to find this info. Bought a n55 135i recently and took it out for an autox. Dct car, held the dtc button until the triangle came on and still felt like I had quite a bit of intervention. Most noticeably in a 2nd gear slalam section that required a quick stab at the brakes and aggressive left right left steering input. Pretty much the exact sort of behavior that BMW would try to save us from in normal road use. The result was a very big delay in power delivery.

I am not really interested in digging in to any programming, just want to go play at the auto x occasionally. Any more buttons to push or fuses to pull (just at the track) that will help a Little? Still plenty fun as is, just curious.

Mahalo.
What mode did you have the transmission in? I've noticed that when the transmission is in Drive, it will sometimes disengage the clutch when slowing down, and there can be a delay in power delivery when trying to accelerate again. If you have the transmission in Sport (lever to the left) or Sport-Manual (lever to the left, pull left paddle), though, the clutch remains engaged and power delivery is much more responsive. At autocross, I always use Sport-Manual and have never noticed any DTC intervention (besides the e-LSD of course).
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      01-28-2020, 10:55 PM   #166
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I was using sport manual. I am new to the car so maybe the elsd thing but it was a pretty long hesitation after the abrupt brake-left-right-left.
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      01-29-2020, 07:17 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hep View Post
I was using sport manual. I am new to the car so maybe the elsd thing but it was a pretty long hesitation after the abrupt brake-left-right-left.
probably not elsd related at all.
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      02-17-2020, 08:32 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
Are you getting torque intervention with dsc completely disabled?
Yes your firmware would be year and model specific. I have a 2007.
I only had 1 value for my car too.
I manually added the data value 00. The range is hexidecimal 00-FF. FF being the most intrusive braking action. 00 being the least intrusive. Hover your mouse over the wert to see what the value is. The wert is just a label not the function and doesnt mean much. The value is what controls the feature.
I coded this off on my car yesterday. My module was a MK60_87.C0F and it was originally set at wert 00 value E4, I manually added the value 00 using NCS Dummy.

Driving it today the pedal felt really good, but I don't think I'll be able to know for sure until I take it back to the track. When I was on-track in Dec I could feel this "feature" kicking in and as I tried to brake with linear input the pedal feedback would go from hard to soft as the system took over slowing down the car. It was really annoying.

Edit - For those who've made coding changes to the DSC module, did you calibrate the steering angle sensor and DSC afterwards? I've seen comments saying it is necessary and others saying it isn't.
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      08-24-2020, 12:51 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
Also, ediff is not just the computer applying braking force to the slipping wheel. It's an integrated system that's designed to help keep the vehicle moving in the intended direction or the way you have the steering wheel pointed.

For example, if dsc is completely off, you can slide your car in a turn without the system stepping in to save you if your not applying throttle. However, If you apply throttle in a turn too fast and the car senses there will be traction loss, the system decides which axle power needs to be adjusted. Braking force from the brakes may be applied or engine braking via dme to reduce speed enough to gain traction. This logic goes a step further than just transferring all the power and torque to the other rear wheel that has traction. The idea is to keep both wheels in contact with the pavement as much as possible so no wheel is spinning out of control. As a result, staying on path moving forward as quickly as possible. This is where your tires come into play as well. Theres all type of safety nannies still active in the dme and tcu even with dsc off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
Ok guys. I want to give you an update on my latest findings. This is definitely good news from where im sitting. I recently learned how to calibrate the steering angle sensor with ISTA d. After doing so, I noticed my cars braking actions wasn't as severe when cornering. It allowed to drive with more speed around corners. The system still applied braking force at some point but the drive felt overall better.

Now the really good news. I was in the dsc module going through each coding option and trying many different values to see what would help reduce power cuts during everyday normal driving and abnormal driving. Lol! Keep in mind, I've done this many times already in the past. I decided to give Dynamic Braking Control(DBC) another try. To my surprise, all of the continuous braking action I normally feel part throttle and full throttle appears to be gone! This is with dsc on, dtc on and dsc off. Car feels normal. Drives smooth and accelerates faster. The axle is released to put the power down now like it should without the wiggley laggy feeling!

My dsc module is MK60 97 COA. Parameters may appear slightly different in your module.
You want to look for is something like DBC min ausloesedruck which means bring on/operation force, strain or pressure. From factory mine is set as wert 01 value E4. The value is what's important not the wert. The data range is from 00-ff. I set my min DBC to a value of 00 which turns the feature all the way down. FF applies more pressure on the axle.

This doesn't eliminate all dsc nannies but It sure feels good accelerating without being held back by braking. Some safeties are needed on this car even with dsc off. I read in ISTA the steering angle should be calibrated after making changes to dsc. So this must have helped. See explanation of DBC.

Dynamic Brake Control (DBC).
When, in an emergency, you apply the brake pedal quickly and with force but without really further increasing brake pressure, Dynamic Brake Control (DBC) instantly builds up maximum brake pressure, bringing your BMW more quickly to a halt.

Even when the driver fails to press on the brake pedal with adequate force, DBC ensures the braking distance will be a short as possible. The DBC control unit adjusts braking pressure to suit the current speed of the vehicle and the brake's level of wear. Furthermore, the DBC computer is networked with the vehicle's other chassis control systems, such as Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and the anti-lock brake system (ABS), which work together to ensure the highest levels of driving safety.
Dynamic Brake Control (DBC) supports the driver actively and reliably when braking in an emergency. By electronically monitoring the speed and pressure with which the driver applies the brake pedal, it is able to recognise an emergency braking situation - and instantly ensures that full braking power is applied to the wheels. This automatically puts the brake force into the ABS range of control.
This process ensures that the stopping distance is not lengthened unnecessarily by abrupt braking. Whether the driver applies the brakes quickly or slowly, the system responds to the driver’s actions automatically and ends brake pressure buildup via DBC.

The truth is DBC is active 100% of the time and that's why it responds to pedal input so fast.
Some give this a shot and let me know if it helps.
Yes DBC and a few other things (eDiff) are active all the time unless you program them out or pull the ABS/DSC fuse. The car CANNOT control the brakes with the fuse pulled PERIOD. Physically impossible. So that makes me doubt almost all of your opinion. It's highly likely that with the DSC fuse pulled, the DME is still capable of cutting power for traction control. But since you've pulled the DSC fuse, you can't turn off traction control with the button anymore so it's stuck on engine TC only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
I coded this off on my car yesterday. My module was a MK60_87.C0F and it was originally set at wert 00 value E4, I manually added the value 00 using NCS Dummy.

Driving it today the pedal felt really good, but I don't think I'll be able to know for sure until I take it back to the track. When I was on-track in Dec I could feel this "feature" kicking in and as I tried to brake with linear input the pedal feedback would go from hard to soft as the system took over slowing down the car. It was really annoying.

Edit - For those who've made coding changes to the DSC module, did you calibrate the steering angle sensor and DSC afterwards? I've seen comments saying it is necessary and others saying it isn't.
I coded +SPBR (performance brakes) in the VO, brake fade compensation OFF, and engine power cut to prevent brake fade OFF yesterday. I didn't recalibrate anything yet. I haven't driven it today though. I figured it would throw an error if it really needed it. Couldn't hurt TBH and it's an easy procedure AFAIK.

I've got a track day beginning of October. I'm considering disabling the emergency brake feature as well but I don't even think I got it to enable in Autocross. It only comes on when you REALLY stab the brakes so it really shouldn't activate on a track since you should be somewhat smooth. You shouldn't be completely stomping the brakes anywhere IMO. I've felt it activate in my E46 and my E82 on the street once each (oops) so I know what it feels like. If it's a problem, then I'll code it out. I'll bring my laptop to the track haha.

FWIW I have the same module as you (C0F). July 2013 build.
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      08-24-2020, 02:02 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE82 View Post
Yes DBC and a few other things (eDiff) are active all the time unless you program them out or pull the ABS/DSC fuse. The car CANNOT control the brakes with the fuse pulled PERIOD. Physically impossible. So that makes me doubt almost all of your opinion. It's highly likely that with the DSC fuse pulled, the DME is still capable of cutting power for traction control. But since you've pulled the DSC fuse, you can't turn off traction control with the button anymore so it's stuck on engine TC only.



I coded +SPBR (performance brakes) in the VO, brake fade compensation OFF, and engine power cut to prevent brake fade OFF yesterday. I didn't recalibrate anything yet. I haven't driven it today though. I figured it would throw an error if it really needed it. Couldn't hurt TBH and it's an easy procedure AFAIK.

I've got a track day beginning of October. I'm considering disabling the emergency brake feature as well but I don't even think I got it to enable in Autocross. It only comes on when you REALLY stab the brakes so it really shouldn't activate on a track since you should be somewhat smooth. You shouldn't be completely stomping the brakes anywhere IMO. I've felt it activate in my E46 and my E82 on the street once each (oops) so I know what it feels like. If it's a problem, then I'll code it out. I'll bring my laptop to the track haha.

FWIW I have the same module as you (C0F). July 2013 build.
I can't speak for your experience but on my 2007 n54 have yielded the results I've posted. The later the model the more sophisticated the integrated system becomes. Pulling the fuse didnt do much for me. When i disconnected the dsc/abs module I still had intervention. Cornering and straight line. When I corner theres a reduction in power and when the wheel straightens out there's a sudden increase in acceleration and power.

According to a BMW foreman and Indy shop owner, our cars will still limit power in certain conditions and no easy way to turn all safeties off since the US mandated better controls some years ago. We can still get in trouble with these cars. Just not as easy as before. They also informed me that just disconnecting the dsc module isn't enough. They claim the dme still has access to the steering angle sensor and speed sensors. Moreover, when certain things get disconnected, other programmed fail safe activates to limit the cars full potential.

Im not saying im 100% on this stuff by any means and its hard to really know what exactlyi s going on. I've questioned this many times. I even thought maybe my car has a communication issue somewhere at times because of how aggressive the system controls my car. No mechanic ever finds and issue with my car. The car seems to adapt to surface and slip conditions and applies power accordingly.
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      08-24-2020, 03:13 PM   #171
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Since I coded DBC to the min value back in February I've been driving the car as a daily and haven't felt like I lost anything by getting rid of the dynamic braking. I have not re-calibrated the steering sensor.

The pedal may have felt different on the street for about a day but after that I fully adapted to the new feel. I agree with Brakethru that after coding it to the min value, it's apparent that this system is active all the time driving on the street or track.

I finally got out to a track event a couple weeks ago, due to everything being cancelled, but I'm happy to say that I didn't notice any DBC interference during the event. I have another track day coming up in a few weeks where I'll be back at the same track that I initially noticed it so that will be a good test to see if it's truly gone.
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      08-24-2020, 04:34 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
I can't speak for your experience but on my 2007 n54 have yielded the results I've posted. The later the model the more sophisticated the integrated system becomes. Pulling the fuse didnt do much for me. When i disconnected the dsc/abs module I still had intervention. Cornering and straight line. When I corner theres a reduction in power and when the wheel straightens out there's a sudden increase in acceleration and power.

According to a BMW foreman and Indy shop owner, our cars will still limit power in certain conditions and no easy way to turn all safeties off since the US mandated better controls some years ago. We can still get in trouble with these cars. Just not as easy as before. They also informed me that just disconnecting the dsc module isn't enough. They claim the dme still has access to the steering angle sensor and speed sensors. Moreover, when certain things get disconnected, other programmed fail safe activates to limit the cars full potential.

Im not saying im 100% on this stuff by any means and its hard to really know what exactlyi s going on. I've questioned this many times. I even thought maybe my car has a communication issue somewhere at times because of how aggressive the system controls my car. No mechanic ever finds and issue with my car. The car seems to adapt to surface and slip conditions and applies power accordingly.
I agree that it can cut power with DSC disabled. The DME is separate from the DSC and has the wheel speeds available to it. I didn't agree with where I thought you were saying it was applying brakes with the DSC disabled via fuse as that is physically impossible.

It's possible you may have engine power reduction enabled still and it's cutting power to prevent brake fade. That needs to be coded off.
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      11-21-2020, 06:59 AM   #173
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Very interesting read here.

I just installed a 3-plate diffsonline LDS in my 2011 128i in preperation for more track time next season. I knew part of this upgrade would require some coding. Alex@Alpine did remote coding on my M4 so I reached out to him, but at the same time I am toying with doing it myself since I don't know of a local source. I really have no experience coding cars.

Few questions:
Is this really as simple as installing NCS Dummy onto a laptop, plugging into the OBDII and follow some the desired changes listed in this thread?
Is there a chance that I might cause perminent damage?
Am I able to reverse settings back to OEM if I screw something up?
Any of you with coding experience live in OH?

In watching Alex code my M4 it didn't seem crazy difficult, but I think he had a popular programming software programming tool. He remoted into my laptop, saved my original programming, made my requested changes and initiated the download from my computer into my car....all while texting me when turn on and off the key, seat belt, cable connections, etc. Alex was is very proficient with the late model M cars.

Thank you in advance for your guidence... Assuming there are some of you still playing around with these now getting older BMWs.

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      11-21-2020, 08:47 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N View Post
Very interesting read here.

I just installed a 3-plate diffsonline LDS in my 2011 128i in preperation for more track time next season. I knew part of this upgrade would require some coding. Alex@Alpine did remote coding on my M4 so I reached out to him, but at the same time I am toying with doing it myself since I don't know of a local source. I really have no experience coding cars.

Few questions:
Is this really as simple as installing NCS Dummy onto a laptop, plugging into the OBDII and follow some the desired changes listed in this thread?
Is there a chance that I might cause perminent damage?
Am I able to reverse settings back to OEM if I screw something up?
Any of you with coding experience live in OH?

In watching Alex code my M4 it didn't seem crazy difficult, but I think he had a popular programming software programming tool. He remoted into my laptop, saved my original programming, made my requested changes and initiated the download from my computer into my car....all while texting me when turn on and off the key, seat belt, cable connections, etc. Alex was is very proficient with the late model M cars.

Thank you in advance for your guidence... Assuming there are some of you still playing around with these now getting older BMWs.
Hi Chris -

There are plenty of people more knowledgeable than I am, but the hardest part I've had when coding things on my 135 and my old Minis was just finding the right versions of software (INPA, NCS Expert, etc). Once you get the process down and understand that you're just moving config files back and forth it's really not that difficult. Just make sure you save the originals, and be careful.

Cheers,
Jackson
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      11-21-2020, 09:21 PM   #175
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      11-22-2020, 10:37 AM   #176
Chris N
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SKI-R, Bimmergeek seems simple enough for even neophyte like me. Thanks, I think that I am going to try it out.
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