The old cut up manifold into trumpets idea

[tree233]

I'm curious how light the n54 intake is.
Does anyone have a 3im & n54 intake that they can weigh?

I have an e30 which I stripped back in the day. I was able to remove over 100kg and the acceleration and cornering increase was amazing! So was the NVH tho hahaha

I'm resisting the urge on my 1er, but if I can find enough liveable things to remove or replace I'll do it.

[E92_William]

The 3 stage with both disas is not much above 10-12 lbs. Each disa is about 1lb so there's not much weight to save there

[MOD.Works]

Hello,

This topic is better for my question.


I would like to calculate the optimum length of the N52B30 intake runner, etc. with a pipemax program.
I plan on using a custom 3IM or N54 manifold. Or something else interesting.

I have been trying to find the exact specs of the N52B30 engine. Euro spec engine (e81 130i 2007 MSV80).
I previously had good data on the N52 engine, as well as the M62 and other engines and values on the Pipemax, but the computer died and I lost all the data.

Which values are not correct?
Images show metric units and one image shows an inch.






Intake runner is about 315-320mm long in 3IM (from valve to bellmouth end)
The N54 intake manifold runner seems to be clearly shorter, but I haven't found any information on the N54 runner's length.

At the values I used Pipemax. The 3IM runner length of the optimal Peak HP is approx. 5800rpm.
I suspect some values are incorrect.

For comparison.
I tried the N62B48 intake for the M62b46 engine with more aggressive cams, headers, etc.
Peak HP is exactly what I got from PipeMax.
But I won't use this N62 intake anymore next year. I get a little more power, but it's close to 7000rpm vs. m60 intake where the max HP is just over 6000rpm. But this was just an experiment. Below are some MAF values.

N62 intake "short" https://aijaa.com/ZD81wR
N62 intake "long" https://aijaa.com/CIcR1Y
M60 intake https://aijaa.com/nriSF9

[Dru128m]

So you want from the head to the end of the runners on the n54 and n52 intake manifolds? What about from the head down to the valves, I'll be pulling my n54 manifold off in the next few weeks to pretty it up? I was always curious, but never got to crunching the numbers.

[MOD.Works]

Yes, I would like to know the n54 runner length.

That would help me.
I also need n52b30 cam spec. Preferably a graphic diagram etc. I would be interested in what kind of profile n52b30 cams is.



N52 from the head to the valves is about 140mm.
The length of the n52b30 3IM runner is about 170-180mm.

[dmytro98]

hoveringuy do you think some of the gains you have could be from a different exhaust since it seems like most people chose to go single 3 inches vs 2.75? Do s54 headers have the same id for the primary runners? Is it just the different design giving the headers better flow causing the extra power gains?

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by dmytro98

hoveringuy do you think some of the gains you have could be from a different exhaust since it seems like most people chose to go single 3 inches vs 2.75? Do s54 headers have the same id for the primary runners? Is it just the different design giving the headers better flow causing the extra power gains?

I've always heard there's a little bit on the table if you really put in the time and effort to optimize the exhaust on these cars. Primarily in the headers (duh) and at the Y pipe merge. The guy who sold me my AA headers had Burns Stainless make him a very fancy merge pipe and he said it made a difference.

Exhaust pipe diameter had been bouncing around my head for years, since I want to remake my exhaust. As long as 2.75in can flow the full volume our motors can push, it should(?) be better given the increased velocity, but I'd like to see some testing on that. I'm definitely no expert on this.

If you really want to optimize flow, look into Supersprint headers - apparently they're supposed to be best.

[spidertri]

Hoveringuy has a great thread on R3vlimited with all the decisions that went into his swap. It's in the 24V swap section, thread called "N52 swap discussion". The amount of work they did to design motor mounts and oil pans that would fit the E30 chassis is incredible.

[dmytro98]

I just read through all 47 pages and wow is there some good information in there. Specifically about the process of deleting the ac and which pulleys and belts to use. Also, I didn't realize just how hot the ps fluid can get when revving to 7500 because when he took it on track he saw temps as high as 275f.

[wayman519]

Very interesting!

A possible solution:

Get a new single stage intake manifold and cut it after the MAP sensor.
Try to build a little bracket and attach the IAT sensor about an inch in front of the runner opening. This should satisfy all the DME basic safety measures. We should be able to do this with stock dme software for a test.

Vanos needs some feedback to adjust cam angle. Maybe Bob could code out vanos and leave the cams locked wide open? But I have a feeling that is what you were running or the DME was doing since it had no feedback.

[wootloops]

Originally Posted by dmytro98

Also, I didn't realize just how hot the ps fluid can get when revving to 7500 because when he took it on track he saw temps as high as 275f.

Keep in mind on his E30 swap he is not running a PS cooler. The 128i does have a stock power steering cooler. Not sure if that will entirely mitigate the issue but it should have some effect on it.

[Dru128m]

Originally Posted by wayman519

Very interesting!

A possible solution:

Get a new single stage intake manifold and cut it after the MAP sensor.
Try to build a little bracket and attach the IAT sensor about an inch in front of the runner opening. This should satisfy all the DME basic safety measures. We should be able to do this with stock dme software for a test.

Vanos needs some feedback to adjust cam angle. Maybe Bob could code out vanos and leave the cams locked wide open? But I have a feeling that is what you were running or the DME was doing since it had no feedback.

We tried that and the map sensor never read any significant vacuum. I even attached a tube to try and get it closer to the valve, to no avail. Without some kind of throttle body to restrict the air flow barely any vacuum was generated.

[72GMC]

Originally Posted by desertman123

I've always heard there's a little bit on the table if you really put in the time and effort to optimize the exhaust on these cars. Primarily in the headers (duh) and at the Y pipe merge. The guy who sold me my AA headers had Burns Stainless make him a very fancy merge pipe and he said it made a difference.

Exhaust pipe diameter had been bouncing around my head for years, since I want to remake my exhaust. As long as 2.75in can flow the full volume our motors can push, it should(?) be better given the increased velocity, but I'd like to see some testing on that. I'm definitely no expert on this.

If you really want to optimize flow, look into Supersprint headers - apparently they're supposed to be best.

Supersprint headers seem to be the model everyone else copies. Are they still superior to the knock-offs?

It seems like a big price jump, but if the quality and flow are better, maybe it's worth it.

[MOD.Works]

Supersprint headers are too small inner diameter and primary short if target for high revs. As well as the mid-range torque is not lost as much.

Supersprint headers works well as a stock engine.

[72GMC]

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

Supersprint headers are too small inner diameter and primary short if target for high revs. As well as the mid-range torque is not lost as much.

Supersprint headers works well as a stock engine.

Other than the S54 headers, what headers pair best with N54 intake, for better high-rev operation? Preferably catless headers.

[Marco22]

Hi!
I have a 3stage IM currently and was thinking about swap it for a n54 one. But after seeing this I’m thinking about give it a try with my old oem one. Do you guys have somes news about it?
My car is a track only 128i, and I would like to see it rev up to 8000rpm

[Dru128m]

I can't recommend trying the open trumpet intake. It sounded awesome and felt like it would make good power but without MAF or MAP sensors reading the ecu was never happy. Maybe I gave up too early, but Bob seemed pretty defeated trying to do it all remotely with the stock DME. Mechanically it will work, and maybe a track specific tune or separate fuel controller makes it happen for you. It would run good idle/low in revs or beast high up, but not both so hard to street. Mine was revving to 7700 and didn't seem to mind one bit. My first impressions of the n54 manifold are good so far. Still on the stock map though. Lady blew a stop sign and hit my rear wheel this winter, that's been fixed so I'll get to the tune soon.

[ornicar]

Originally Posted by Dru128m

I can't recommend trying the open trumpet intake. It sounded awesome and felt like it would make good power but without MAF or MAP sensors reading the ecu was never happy. Maybe I gave up too early, but Bob seemed pretty defeated trying to do it all remotely with the stock DME. Mechanically it will work, and maybe a track specific tune or separate fuel controller makes it happen for you. It would run good idle/low in revs or beast high up, but not both so hard to street. Mine was revving to 7700 and didn't seem to mind one bit. My first impressions of the n54 manifold are good so far. Still on the stock map though. Lady blew a stop sign and hit my rear wheel this winter, that's been fixed so I'll get to the tune soon.

You can run N54 IM with the stock map?? I didn't know it was possible.

[Dru128m]

Yeah the car really doesn't know about the plastic just what the sensors tell it. Motor isn't taking advantage of it, but it keeps the AFRs in check.

[ornicar]

Originally Posted by Dru128m

Yeah the car really doesn't know about the plastic just what the sensors tell it. Motor isn't taking advantage of it, but it keeps the AFRs in check.

there are DISAs in the plastic part.

do you loose many low rev torque?

[Dru128m]

No disa in the n54 manifold. Lost some torque under 3000 rpm. Over 3500 it jumps to life and just wants to rev.

[ornicar]

Originally Posted by Dru128m

No disa in the n54 manifold. Lost some torque under 3000 rpm. Over 3500 it jumps to life and just wants to rev.

thanks!

i talked about the disas in the N52 IM.

i will maybe try to fit the N54 IM without tune during few weeks until i fit Milvs and buy the stagefp tune.