[xspeedy]

Read post #56. The issue isn't one of figuring out how to use it. I know how to go through my directories on my computer, but would one rather drill down through several folders to launch IE or would one rather click a shortcut on your desktop?

In the computer world, we live for shortcuts (via keyboard and via icons on our desktop) to make our lives easier. BMW seems to think the opposite with iDrive.

Read a little before you post about an issue that doesn't exist.

[ed328ci]

Originally Posted by no1sportz

Just don't understand people. iDrive is very simple to operate. The same people who cannot understand it are the same ones who have difficulties zipping up their pants...

I understand technology very well. I wrote my first code using punch cards while in elementary school. In fact, I manage technology development, including UI development. iDrive DOES NOT have a good enough UI for its purpose. As others have mentioned, the layered menu approach does not match its purpose as the UI for the mass produced motor vehicles.

Ed

[ihavedrivenanm1]

There are a lot of recent pro-iDrive posts here that seem to be intentionally trying to obfuscate the issue by suggesting that iDrive haters simply can't master the techniques of using the system, that we are somehow dolts or Luddites.

This is of course complete bollocks, and not a little bit insulting. No one here has, as far as I have read, suggested that the iDrive systems operation cannot be mastered, and mastered in reasonably short order, but that is not the point.

The point, one of several that myself and others here are trying to make is that having to shuffle through a series of menus, left and right click, all the while visually confirming that you have made the right choice - while an easy set of tasks to learn - is still pointlessly Baroque when considering that simply pushing a button or two is just so damned much more straight forward.

Personally I think the degree to which iDrive requires the driver to take his or her eyes off of the road in order to verify screen options and choices is positively dangerous.

I once was given an automatic orange juice juicer as a present. The damned thing required five or six steps as I recall in order to produce just a single glass of orange juice. Now, as for the technology itself, it took me all of five minutes to master that device yet after making two glasses of juice I figured out that simply using my hands and a single-piece glass orange juice press was not only quicker but easier and much tidier as well.

I subsequently threw the damn auto juicer in the trash; not because I didn’t understand how it worked but because the thing was nothing more than a technology-for-technology’s sake solution to a problem that didn't exist.

The real goal of the auto juicer was not to be a better solution to a real problem [making orange juice] but rather as a technological gadget whose only useful purpose was to get people to part with more of their money. In these respects that auto juicer is exactly like iDrive.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by no1sportz

Just don't understand people. iDrive is very simple to operate. The same people who cannot understand it are the same ones who have difficulties zipping up their pants or touching their nose.

[no1sportz]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Nice

[no1sportz]

Originally Posted by xspeedy

Read post #56. The issue isn't one of figuring out how to use it. I know how to go through my directories on my computer, but would you rather drill down through several folders to launch IE or would you rather click a shortcut on your desktop?

In the computer world, we live for shortcuts (via keyboard and via icons on our desktop) to make our lives easier. But BMW seems to think the opposite.

Read a little before you post about an issue that doesn't exist.

My bad. I will admit I didn't have much time and quickly responded to this thread under the assumption that someone was whining again about how iDrive is difficult to learn. You are right...we do like SCs in IT...we just don't tell our end users about the good ones! However I don't find the the interface non-intuitive...guess I just like it. I find it simple to use while driving. Non-engaging driving that is. Like all techie stuff...it ofcourse will get much better and faster. Personally I applaud BMW for bringing it to us.

I shouldn't insult anyone who doesn't understand or dislike iDrive. We all have opinions and they do differ. At least we all have one similar passion...BMW! And I hope it is for the fact that these cars are amazing in terms of driving...not a status symbol.

[JBOO]

I've loved iDrive since day one and I recently confirmed that when driving a 3 series for a few days that didn't have it. With iDrive, I never have to move from my ideal driving position. I simply use my right hand to scroll through the menus while glancingm momentarily at the screen (if needed). For simple things like shutting the radio on or off or changing stations, I just use the steering wheel controls. In the non-iDrive 3 series, I found myself always having to lean forward to make some changes that I couldn't do through the steering wheel controls. It was very distracting and I absolutely hated it. Maybe it's due to bad design, because I don't necessarily have this problem with other cars, however, it just re-affirmed that I'll never own a BMW without it. BMW has provided me a solution to a question that I never asked, but I'm sure am thankful they did.

[supernova]

still havent gotten my e90 but my ex's father had a 7.
i would play with the iDrive every time and all the time.

it wasnt as hard as many say. I actually was surprised
at how fast i got the hang of it. I believe instead of simplifying
everything the iDrive did make it a bit harder than to just press
a simple button on the dash and boom thats the next radio station...
or whatever ..but its not a biggie.

[SteveMD]

A few misc. thoughts:

The only controls that disappear with an idrive car is the radio correct? The HVAC is all there just like in a non idrive car. I NEVER use the idrive for the few HVAC tweaks. I doubt anyone else does. I will admit that (with the exception of being able to set the fans to come on on a hot day at a certain time), the AC aspect of idrive is superfluous.

In addition, the vehicle settings like headlamp delay, seat memory options, door locks etc are all things that are set once and forgotten about. Certainly never accessed while driving along.

So that leaves Bluetooth (which apart from the initial set up and compatibility is just as easy as on a non idrive car), Radio and Nav.

To me, idrive is a Nav system with a radio. There is basically nothing in the iDrive that can't be accessed from outside the idrive. Except Nav and Radio.

So what are all these layers of menus? You can flip from Nav to Radio simply by holding the click wheel either down or to the right. Set your destination or bring up the map, set your radio and toggle between the two with ONE controller movement. ONE movement and viola!

I have a Sirius Starmate sat radio in another car. If you want to click buttons and mess with a tiny display get one. It's the best selling Sirius unit on the market yet is definitley a challenge to find a station if you are not sure of the channel number. If you don't have a station as a preset, there are many button clicks needed to find it. They are small and awkward and a PITA to mess with. So what do you do? You program all your faves into it. Just like with the radio in the idrive.

Let's look more at the radio aspect. On a non idrive car, how many buttons, dial movements and time not spent looking at the road, would it take to go from a preset FM station to a non preset Sirius station say 141 and back again.

On the idrive it is a few clicks and a few rotations that can be performed without having to look down at a small orange LCD display. Your right hand rests on the controller, left hand is on the steering wheel, you are seated normally and looking staright forward.

So that's the Radio, Bluetooth and HVAC debunked.

That leaves Nav. It's not the best interface I will agree but it is not as some have said, technology for the sake of technology. It is a nav system. How else would you do it if not on a screen. Maybe a 3 dimensional holographic image floating in a virtual plane somewhere above the hood outside the car??

Yes, a touchscreen would be awesome but the screen would have to be relocated to within an arms length. I'm sure that will be the case in the next generation. Anecdotally, it is better than the interface in my family's S500. Programming a destination in that is no easier.

This kind of stuff is here to stay. Can it be improved upon? Sure but I laud BMW for getting in early in the game with a solution that looks fantastic and is easy to operate.

[jpsquared]

Originally Posted by SteveMD

This kind of stuff is here to stay. Can it be improved upon? Sure but I laud BMW for getting in early in the game with a solution that looks fantastic and is easy to operate.

Thx SteveMD for eloquently summing up what some of us have been trying to say.

Some here have argued against "technology for technology's sake". But the more I think about that, the more I don't really know what that means. The example given of an orange juicer being overly complicated to be a convenience is a point well taken and understood. There's an appliance that makes no sense unless you actually sell orange juice. But it's not a direct analogy to the complexity of a driver's interface with his car.

Go ahead BMW, take away the Idrive. Let's make the dash look like a Star Trek prop. That'll make everyone real happy. Talk about confusion... All I'm saying is before everyone rants on Idrive, consider the alternative - hence the pic I posted in my earlier response.

As you suggest, this kind of stuff is here to stay. As I have posted earlier, if BMW did nothing to address the onslaught of tech in the cockpit, they'd have been lambasted by the already overly-critical automotive press for not modernizing enough. Considering the thin line that BMW had to walk, Idrive turns out to be not so bad of a compromise (which MB and Lexus have already copied).

[TD]

Originally Posted by jpsquared

Thx SteveMD for eloquently summing up what some of us have been trying to say.

Some here have argued against "technology for technology's sake". But the more I think about that, the more I don't really know what that means. The example given of an orange juicer being overly complicated to be a convenience is a point well taken and understood. There's an appliance that makes no sense unless you actually sell orange juice. But it's not a direct analogy to the complexity of a driver's interface with his car.

Go ahead BMW, take away the Idrive. Let's make the dash look like a Star Trek prop. That'll make everyone real happy. Talk about confusion... All I'm saying is before everyone rants on Idrive, consider the alternative - hence the pic I posted in my earlier response.

As you suggest, this kind of stuff is here to stay. As I have posted earlier, if BMW did nothing to address the onslaught of tech in the cockpit, they'd have been lambasted by the already overly-critical automotive press for not modernizing enough. Considering the thin line that BMW had to walk, Idrive turns out to be not so bad of a compromise (which MB and Lexus have already copied).

Go look at a 2005 E46 sedan w/NAV. Name me one function the E90 w/iDrive has that that E46 doesn't. And they still pulled it off without slathering the interior in buttons.

You guys and your tales of rows of buttons a la Star Trek are really missing the point. BMW took features they already offered with simple and straightforward controls and made them more complicated.

Plus, the E90 w/o iDrive has almost all of the features the iDrive car has. But they are simply controlled through logical buttons.

I still insist that iDrive adds no value over alternative controls.

[LEDZEP]

Hmm.... looks like this has become an argument over personal preferences again. It's funny that we all share the same (albeit unhealthy) fanaticism about our cars, but we fight like children about why we like them, and what there is about them to like.

When I bought my E90 it was May '05 and there were none on the road or any owners to get feedback or tips from. It was my first BMW so I had no basis for comparison. I never even heard the term iDrive - it was just the navigation system as far as I knew. I don't need nav because I manage to find my way to and from work okay most days.

But knowing what I know now about the features, and hearing others comments, etc. I will seriously consider adding it to the next 3 Series I buy in a few years.

[Ashe Too]

It seems like a lot of the I-Drive proponents commend the I-Drive for relieving us of a cluttered dashboard. The thing is, that when I look at the dash of my non-I-Drive e90, I don't see an ergonomic disaster or an overwhelming array of haphazardly arranged buttons, controls and displays. I see a clean, uncluttered environment, and I don't have any trouble interfacing with it. And the dash of the Volvo pictured above doesn't look at all bad. To me, an example of a bad dash layout is the Cadillac Allante with its bewildering array of buttons and cheap look and feel.

After following this thread, the one thing that is abundantly clear to me is that this discussion reveals how subjective this argument is and that it really boils down to personal preference. And any judgments we make on other people's preferences say more about the person doing the judging than about the validity of the other person's judgment or their worth as a person.

On a lighter note, I won't deny being a slightly judgmental curmudgeon and think all you I-Drive fans are geeks

[mtnyeti12]

Before I got the E90 I had a Land Rover LR3 with NAV. It had a touch screen and excellent voice commands but you really had to reach out to it and concentrate on what you were selecting on the touch screen. The radio controls weren't associated with the screen and that's one drawback of the I-Drive IMO. Otherwise I think it's one of the better intergrated NAV/computer systems on the market. Once you get used to the controller you can fly through the menus without taking you eyes off the road and the controller is at a very comfortable arms reach.

[pharding]

Ultimately the best judge of I-Drive are owners of BMW's with the I-Drive. Since the 5 er with I-Drive has been around for 2 and 1/2 years now and the the 3 er's optional I-Drive works the same, I would suggest that those interested in BMW owners' opinions of the I-Drive go to e60.net and post a question there. The response from people that actually have it on the their 5 er's is "the I-drive is fine and we do not understand the criticism at all. If one has the intelligence and the aptitude to operate a computer it is not a big deal." I have personally used the I-Drive on my 545 for two years and I like it a lot as it is. I do not think about the operation of it while I drive. It is entirely second nature. When my son ordered his 330 he insisted on the I-drive based upon his experience in driving my car. In the 330 I beleive that BMW was wise to make it an option. Let everyone choose based their desires and budget. The only rationale that I can offer as to why some journalists write negatively about it is that they do not drive any test car long enough to feel comfortable with it. Auto journalists also tend to be like sheep. All things considered, the people that matter the most, BMW owners with the I-Drive, are quite pleased with it.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by SteveMD

This kind of stuff is here to stay.

Really? I'm not convinced. Remember the "Tokyo-by-night" dash displays of the '80's? Lots of LCD/LED displays instead of good ole analog needles. All the rage for a few years, then POOF! They were gone. Why? They were inferior in function to the original way of displaying information to the driver. The techno-geeks thought they were great, but in the end, function won out over flash.

For now, we can all be happy that iDrive is available in the E90 but not forced upon anyone. Time will tell how this all plays out.

[ben1364]

TD <snip> BMW took features they already offered with simple and straightforward controls and made them more complicated.

I agree with TD and would add that in addition to "more complicated" these gizmos are more complex to diagnose and repair.

[xspeedy]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Really? I'm not convinced. Remember the "Tokyo-by-night" dash displays of the '80's? Lots of LCD/LED displays instead of good ole analog needles. All the rage for a few years, then POOF! They were gone. Why? They were inferior in function to the original way of displaying information to the driver. The techno-geeks thought they were great, but in the end, function won out over flash.

For now, we can all be happy that iDrive is available in the E90 but not forced upon anyone. Time will tell how this all plays out.

Very good example of technology for technology's sake. Those digital "Knight Rider" displays really didn't add any value - it was a nerd fad.

Another example from the same era was the talking dash. Remember those? "Door is ajar".

[Lost Rider]

I would like some info on the age of people who don't like, or bash iDrive. Including the journalists.
I bet its 45+

I think that people who can't figure out iDrive are complete idiots, especially the morons who use their own computer related shortcomings to bash a good interface.
I'm sick and tired of all the boomers, with all their "buying power", being afraid of new technologies and talking shit about it, which in turn holds back more new gear. Get over it. It's 2006. Got it?
People don't like what they are afraid of.
To all of the "purists", why don't you get rid of your cell-phone, or tivo, or PC to stay " pure " .
No difference with new computer related technologies in your car.
The good news is that this group of computer-illiterate idiots is aging and slowly losing status, the bad news is not fast enough.
Go home to your VCR flashing 12:00.



end of rant.

[ben1364]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I would like some info on the age of people who don't like, or bash iDrive. Including the journalists.
I bet its 45+

I think that people who can't figure out iDrive are complete idiots, especially the morons who use their own computer related shortcomings to bash a good interface.
I'm sick and tired of all the boomers, with all their "buying power", being afraid of new technologies and talking shit about it, which in turn holds back more new gear. Get over it. It's 2006. Got it?
People don't like what they are afraid of.
To all of the "purists", why don't you get rid of your cell-phone, or tivo, or PC to stay " pure " .
No difference with new computer related technologies in your car.
The good news is that this group of computer-illiterate idiots is aging and slowly losing status, the bad news is not fast enough.
Go home to your VCR flashing 12:00.

Note: Most of the people responding to this thread have been thoughtful and persuasive in stating their positions. This one is not. I hope that Chi Town will reconsider and remove this tasteless diatribe.

[xspeedy]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I would like some info on the age of people who don't like, or bash iDrive. Including the journalists.
I bet its 45+

I think that people who can't figure out iDrive are complete idiots, especially the morons who use their own computer related shortcomings to bash a good interface.

Grow up. Have you even read anything in this thread, or have you just jumped in here for a second to spout your BS?

For your information, I'm a 35 year old network engineer. I know technology and work with it every day. I'm smart enough to know that iDrive adds more work to accomplish regular tasks. Therefore it adds no value.

Since you are so brilliant, perhaps you could tell me what value it does add.

[Lost Rider]

I'm sorry I didn't realize that this was about the value of the iDrive.
I thought it was about journalists bashing iDrive.
Again, I would like to know the AGE of the journalists in question, and then the people who jumped in with their negative opinions about iDrive and the people who payed to have it, offending me because I payed to have it.
I'm just stating that it's my opinion that older people are far less likely to embrace the new gizmos that are around, jees.


BTW I have owned quite a few BMW's dating back to my first, a e30, I always have embraced the new models, and most of the technologies that BMW has offered, and I don't understand the hatred for this system, it's natural evolution for BMW.