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      07-26-2018, 08:43 AM   #23
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Please don't feed the troll...
So you don't understand anything I wrote. Got it.

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Originally Posted by rowsdower View Post
If it came with 405hp or whatever you calculated, you likely could not beat the shit out of it all day like we can.
Correct.
What I don't understand is why an apparently grown individual would continually go out of their way to attempt to denigrate the N52, 128i, and anyone who purchased a 1er without a turbo. It's immature and antisocial behavior, and frankly, just kind of odd.

But you definitely win the internet with your clever come back! Looks like you've had lots of practice in mom and dad's basement.
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      07-26-2018, 12:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
What I don't understand is why an apparently grown individual would continually go out of their way to attempt to denigrate the N52, 128i, and anyone who purchased a 1er without a turbo. It's immature and antisocial behavior, and frankly, just kind of odd.

But you definitely win the internet with your clever come back! Looks like you've had lots of practice in mom and dad's basement.
Jesus, #readingcomprehension

OK, you apparently skipped reading my posts entirely so let me clarify. In this thread I explained why the N52 is a rather DURABLE engine (that's a good thing, I would think...). Then I explained how you can increase the power significantly while remaining NA without raising the RPM.

In other words my posts in THIS thread have nothing whatsoever to do with other posts I've made which favorably compare the cost of a 135i to a 128i with "big power" mods.
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      07-26-2018, 12:51 PM   #25
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I'll never understand why there is any infighting about engine choice for a 1er. ALL 1 series cars are cool, from automatic 128i's to tire smoking 500+hp turbos. People buy what they want. If a 128i is good enough for some, then that's all you need to know. I daily drive mine. A Lot. I just don't feel the need for the power of the turbo, nor want the complexity or some of the known issues that come with it. I love the way NA engines make you work to get power out of them. I come from motorcycles and cars with little four bangers, so revving is what I'm used to, and I love it. It is a blast to drive with an engine that purrs along until about 4500 rpm, when the party starts!
Our N52's are indeed stout units. Well proven by use in many BMW platforms.
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      07-26-2018, 12:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by minirips2 View Post
I'll never understand why there is any infighting about engine choice for a 1er.
In this thread, there isn't, so why are trying to force the issue? It's the opposite: I describe on page one how to turn the N52 into a total beast while staying NA. Read it, you might find it entertaining.
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      07-26-2018, 01:01 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by minirips2 View Post
I'll never understand why there is any infighting about engine choice for a 1er. ALL 1 series cars are cool, from automatic 128i's to tire smoking 500+hp turbos. People buy what they want. If a 128i is good enough for some, then that's all you need to know. I daily drive mine. A Lot. I just don't feel the need for the power of the turbo, nor want the complexity or some of the known issues that come with it. I love the way NA engines make you work to get power out of them. I come from motorcycles and cars with little four bangers, so revving is what I'm used to, and I love it. It is a blast to drive with an engine that purrs along until about 4500 rpm, when the party starts!
Our N52's are indeed stout units. Well proven by use in many BMW platforms.
All true, but when i track my 125i on Nürburgring or GP track, i am constantly forced to moved aside and take the "wrong line", brake earlier and harder to allow much faster cars by.

When i was at the Mending airfield track, i only moved aside once, despite F80 M3, C63 AMG, 911 turbos etc since they were still trying to explore the limits of their cars.

My point is, as a daily, i love the 125i, really gives me that E30 323i/325i classic typical BMW feeling. But trying to have fun on a track....it makes me think twice, most likely i have to pay €800+ for a track day at Nürburgring to get some breathing room, but even then some track days slicks (full slicks) are allowed and the noise limit is raised from 90db on TF days to 130 dbs and race cars are allowed....see my dilemma?

If the 135i can be turned into a serious track competitive car (if you search, you will see how stock engined E92 and E46 M3s are capable of achieving sub 7:20 on the Ring which is very close to GT3 RS) then i maybe consider a second car as a track/street car (N54 135i) but i really wish to avoid turbos since they constantly run hot and you do not need the mid range torque on the ring (again NA cars are always sitting between 5K and 8K rpms using all max hp). But this falls into which tracks do you do most and if a mid torque car/engine is better suited to you or not.

As i said, if these 125i/128i cars were 200kgs lighter from the factory and capable of 300+hp with small mods, it would definitely be a contender. But to get that, a shit ton of money needs to be invested and it would not really be comfortable as a daily.
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      07-26-2018, 01:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post

270 * 14/10.7 = 353
That's not how it works.
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      07-26-2018, 01:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Jesus, #readingcomprehension

OK, you apparently skipped reading my posts entirely so let me clarify. In this thread I explained why the N52 is a rather DURABLE engine (that's a good thing, I would think...). Then I explained how you can increase the power significantly while remaining NA without raising the RPM.

In other words my posts in THIS thread have nothing whatsoever to do with other posts I've made which favorably compare the cost of a 135i to a 128i with "big power" mods.
Calling the engine "ridiculously detuned" is not really a positive comment. Moreover, no one in any of these threads ever asks for your advice, but you just love to talk about your vast fund of knowledge. Here's a tip, though: no one really cares what you think you know if you constantly act like a douche, instead of a decent human being.

Ever wonder why you're always bumping heads with people in various threads? it's you, dude. Figure your shit out and act like a grown up.
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      07-26-2018, 02:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
That's not how it works.
I don't disagree, but opinions without proof are worthless. Please, SHOW me why I'm wrong so we can all learn from it.

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Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Calling the engine "ridiculously detuned" is not really a positive comment.
Well, it is ridiculously detuned. That's a fact. All consumer car engines are, including my N55. They wouldn't be so reliable if they weren't. I build race engines for bikes and they don't last very long at all if you use the power. A pro might rebuild his 4 stroke 250 after 10 hours. Even someone like me who doesn't ride that hard needs a new top end in under 100.

Try not to get so worked up, Bob. They're only cars. If you're happy with the car, that's all that matters. If you disagree with what I have to say, try being logical instead of slinging mud. It should be obvious that I like to argue, and also obvious that I refrain from getting personal. I attack information, not people. We could use a lot more of that.
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      07-26-2018, 02:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post

Try not to get so worked up, Bob. They're only cars. If you're happy with the car, that's all that matters. If you disagree with what I have to say, try being logical instead of slinging mud. It should be obvious that I like to argue, and also obvious that I refrain from getting personal. I attack information, not people. We could use a lot more of that.
I'm not worked up at all. I just think you should know that you come off as an arrogant tool rather than a subject-matter expert, which is a shame because if you acted like a decent guy we might actually respect your opinion.
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      07-26-2018, 02:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
If the 135i can be turned into a serious track competitive car (if you search, you will see how stock engined E92 and E46 M3s are capable of achieving sub 7:20 on the Ring which is very close to GT3 RS) then i maybe consider a second car as a track/street car (N54 135i) but i really wish to avoid turbos since they constantly run hot and you do not need the mid range torque on the ring (again NA cars are always sitting between 5K and 8K rpms using all max hp).
I don't know how hot it is at the Nordschleife but you are right, the turbo engines need a lot of help cooling with a good driver. The car will also need attention including, but not limited to wheels, tires, brakes (pads and fluid), suspension, and all the chassis bushings to deal with that speed safely. Here in the USA I had to cool down my stock N55 after only a few miles of lapping in 37*C heat. Actually, the DCT overheats before the motor and starts behaving really annoying.

That said, if you can put the power down reliably with a N54 it has the potential to be WAY fast on the Nordschleife. As in, drivers equal, faster than those M-cars you mentioned. The problem is using that power, since the Nordschleife is all about carrying speed and keeping up your momentum thru the fast corners so you will need all the mods listed above. More speed gets dangerous, very fast. And a N54 is not just powerful in the midrange. With a minor mods you will have WAY more power everywhere. More power at the wheels than a N55, more power at the wheels than a S65. Your optimal shift points may change depending on what tune you run and where the power tapers off. But, the car will still be making mega power, your ceiling is just lowered a bit. You can figure out what the shift points would be here: http://glennmessersmith.com/shiftpt.html#data

So in summary, if you can afford to change basically everything involved in holding the tires to the road, along with the wheels and tires themselves, and get a really track-oriented alignment, you could be ridiculously fast on the Nord in a N54 135i compared to a N52 with equivalent level of prep. Stock turbo motor can probably do under 7 min BTG with the right driver and setup but I'd imagine that would be really stressing the stock turbos, not to mention pretty scary with all that traffic.
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      07-26-2018, 03:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
I don't disagree, but opinions without proof are worthless.
Now there's a whole lot of the pot calling the kettle black. I must have missed the citations at the end of your post supporting your assertions.

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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Please, SHOW me why I'm wrong so we can all learn from it.
I would suggest researching "otto cycle thermal efficiency". At 10.7:1 you're at 61.25% efficiency and at 14:1 you're at 65.2%. That's about a 6.45% gain in efficiency, or 287.41 HP on your fictional 270 HP N52 (in a perfect world). A 17.41 HP bump is nice, but nowhere near your 83 HP bump.

Here's a few quick links as references or... "proof":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle
https://www.nuclear-power.net/nuclea...or-otto-cycle/
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SP...es/node25.html
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      07-26-2018, 03:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
Here's a few quick links
Thanks, I am reading your links. Now that's what I'm talking about. An intelligent response. It's not that I don't often get things wrong, it's that nobody knows how to call me out! And don't insult my pot, at least he showed his work
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      07-27-2018, 12:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
I don't know how hot it is at the Nordschleife but you are right, the turbo engines need a lot of help cooling with a good driver. The car will also need attention including, but not limited to wheels, tires, brakes (pads and fluid), suspension, and all the chassis bushings to deal with that speed safely. Here in the USA I had to cool down my stock N55 after only a few miles of lapping in 37*C heat. Actually, the DCT overheats before the motor and starts behaving really annoying.

That said, if you can put the power down reliably with a N54 it has the potential to be WAY fast on the Nordschleife. As in, drivers equal, faster than those M-cars you mentioned. The problem is using that power, since the Nordschleife is all about carrying speed and keeping up your momentum thru the fast corners so you will need all the mods listed above. More speed gets dangerous, very fast. And a N54 is not just powerful in the midrange. With a minor mods you will have WAY more power everywhere. More power at the wheels than a N55, more power at the wheels than a S65. Your optimal shift points may change depending on what tune you run and where the power tapers off. But, the car will still be making mega power, your ceiling is just lowered a bit. You can figure out what the shift points would be here: http://glennmessersmith.com/shiftpt.html#data

So in summary, if you can afford to change basically everything involved in holding the tires to the road, along with the wheels and tires themselves, and get a really track-oriented alignment, you could be ridiculously fast on the Nord in a N54 135i compared to a N52 with equivalent level of prep. Stock turbo motor can probably do under 7 min BTG with the right driver and setup but I'd imagine that would be really stressing the stock turbos, not to mention pretty scary with all that traffic.
No way can a 125i do 7 mins or less BTG, even if it was converted to a full race car, ran semi slicks and had racing suspension and brakes.

The quickest 135i i have found did 7:45 BTG and it was basically a street legal race car (stripped down, cage etc).

Do the same for an E46 M3 and you shave 15+ seconds

The 1M is not that much faster than the 135i, due to the short wheelbase and its "willingness" to go sideways from its short wheelbase.

It gets hot here in summer, so hot that i have seen 911 turbos and AMG mercedes stock go into limp mode on track.

But now we are seriously off topic
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      07-27-2018, 12:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
No way can a 125i do 7 mins or less BTG, even if it was converted to a full race car, ran semi slicks and had racing suspension and brakes.
But now we are seriously off topic
Fully prepped and tuned N54 135i can do under 7 min, in theory. Not 125i. I think you don't see many 1 series going fast on the nord because they are a handful, that is to say dangerous and need a very skilled driver.
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      07-27-2018, 03:05 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Fully prepped and tuned N54 135i can do under 7 min, in theory. Not 125i. I think you don't see many 1 series going fast on the nord because they are a handful, that is to say dangerous and need a very skilled driver.
Maybe, big maybe a 1M running wide semi slicks.

And yes, the E82 has too short of a wheelbase to take those medium and high speed sweepers indeed. Hence why a lot of teams go for 3 series instead.
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      07-27-2018, 12:15 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Maybe, big maybe a 1M running wide semi slicks.

And yes, the E82 has too short of a wheelbase to take those medium and high speed sweepers indeed. Hence why a lot of teams go for 3 series instead.
You need a trackday to run race rubber, right? Not allowed during TF?
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      07-27-2018, 12:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by minirips2 View Post
I'll never understand why there is any infighting about engine choice for a 1er. ALL 1 series cars are cool, from automatic 128i's to tire smoking 500+hp turbos. People buy what they want. If a 128i is good enough for some, then that's all you need to know. I daily drive mine. A Lot. I just don't feel the need for the power of the turbo, nor want the complexity or some of the known issues that come with it. I love the way NA engines make you work to get power out of them. I come from motorcycles and cars with little four bangers, so revving is what I'm used to, and I love it. It is a blast to drive with an engine that purrs along until about 4500 rpm, when the party starts!
Our N52's are indeed stout units. Well proven by use in many BMW platforms.
All true, but when i track my 125i on Nürburgring or GP track, i am constantly forced to moved aside and take the "wrong line", brake earlier and harder to allow much faster cars by.

When i was at the Mending airfield track, i only moved aside once, despite F80 M3, C63 AMG, 911 turbos etc since they were still trying to explore the limits of their cars.

My point is, as a daily, i love the 125i, really gives me that E30 323i/325i classic typical BMW feeling. But trying to have fun on a track....it makes me think twice, most likely i have to pay €800+ for a track day at Nürburgring to get some breathing room, but even then some track days slicks (full slicks) are allowed and the noise limit is raised from 90db on TF days to 130 dbs and race cars are allowed....see my dilemma?

If the 135i can be turned into a serious track competitive car (if you search, you will see how stock engined E92 and E46 M3s are capable of achieving sub 7:20 on the Ring which is very close to GT3 RS) then i maybe consider a second car as a track/street car (N54 135i) but i really wish to avoid turbos since they constantly run hot and you do not need the mid range torque on the ring (again NA cars are always sitting between 5K and 8K rpms using all max hp). But this falls into which tracks do you do most and if a mid torque car/engine is better suited to you or not.

As i said, if these 125i/128i cars were 200kgs lighter from the factory and capable of 300+hp with small mods, it would definitely be a contender. But to get that, a shit ton of money needs to be invested and it would not really be comfortable as a daily.
I was on a technical track last weekend and was enjoying gobbling-up 997's, ZL1 Camaros, GT Mustangs, E46 almost-racecars, and even a few Miatas. It was even more fun since I wasn't pushing too hard (in terms of straight line driving and braking, cornering was another story ) and my car is by no means a precision cornering machine with perfectly calibrated suspension and whatnot doo-dads and whiz-bangs to make me seem faster. The engine just kept trucking, and with as many miles as mine has, it STILL doesn't skip a beat...
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      07-27-2018, 12:55 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
You need a trackday to run race rubber, right? Not allowed during TF?
Street legal semi slicks such as cup 2s and the likes are allowed, they are street legal for TF.

However, i would need to purchase new wheels and tires, since driving 600+ kms on semi slicks on the autobahn unsure of rain is out of the question. Which means id need a trailer for the tires, and probably speak with the hotel owners to leave my street tires at the parking, guarded.

Or if i show up at the track and it rains, id switch to street tires for better grip in the wet. But this applies to any car one wishes to track really, not specifically to our E82s.
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      07-27-2018, 12:58 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
I was on a technical track last weekend and was enjoying gobbling-up 997's, ZL1 Camaros, GT Mustangs, E46 almost-racecars, and even a few Miatas. It was even more fun since I wasn't pushing too hard (in terms of straight line driving and braking, cornering was another story ) and my car is by no means a precision cornering machine with perfectly calibrated suspension and whatnot doo-dads and whiz-bangs to make me seem faster. The engine just kept trucking, and with as many miles as mine has, it STILL doesn't skip a beat...
That is what i love about NA engines, generally speaking you can hammer them all day and they will just never refuse.

Right now, i am very happy with a daily 125i with coil overs, non RTFs, 330i front brakes and software tune. Especially since i changed those silly rear bump and rebound settings, car is a delight and no issues at 200+kph on the autobahn, i can keep pushing it with confidence.

I need to go to the track with this setup and see the results with these changed out of the box KW settings.
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      07-27-2018, 01:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
I was on a technical track last weekend and was enjoying gobbling-up 997's, ZL1 Camaros, GT Mustangs, E46 almost-racecars, and even a few Miatas. It was even more fun since I wasn't pushing too hard (in terms of straight line driving and braking, cornering was another story ) and my car is by no means a precision cornering machine with perfectly calibrated suspension and whatnot doo-dads and whiz-bangs to make me seem faster. The engine just kept trucking, and with as many miles as mine has, it STILL doesn't skip a beat...
That is what i love about NA engines, generally speaking you can hammer them all day and they will just never refuse.

Right now, i am very happy with a daily 125i with coil overs, non RTFs, 330i front brakes and software tune. Especially since i changed those silly rear bump and rebound settings, car is a delight and no issues at 200+kph on the autobahn, i can keep pushing it with confidence.

I need to go to the track with this setup and see the results with these changed out of the box KW settings.
And that's what I love about suspension adjustments. A little goes a long way, and the tiniest things make huge differences in how everything feels. I've also found that when the car feels "just right" is when I drive it the fastest, and have the confidence to do so.
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      07-27-2018, 01:33 PM   #43
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And that's what I love about suspension adjustments. A little goes a long way, and the tiniest things make huge differences in how everything feels. I've also found that when the car feels "just right" is when I drive it the fastest, and have the confidence to do so.
The only "issue" is the rear end, those subframe bushings, sway bar and lsd all in one go....

+ new 18x8 wheels and 235/40 semi slicks all round....

But those seats are rubbish on track never ending project man....hence why i think i will stop as it is and think if i will continue, or get another car and turn it to a street legal track weekend toy or what not.
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      07-27-2018, 05:18 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
The only "issue" is the rear end, those subframe bushings, sway bar and lsd all in one go....
It makes a HUGE difference. I've done all three and it feels like a different car.
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