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      04-18-2022, 06:52 PM   #1
Ziggy
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Hawk DTC-60 vs. DTC-70 vs. ER-1

I'm in need of new pads for this season of HPDE and I noticed new arrival of ER-1. My sessions are normally between 20 and 40 minutes.
Can anyone comment on performance of the ER-1 vs the other two?
Thanks,
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      04-19-2022, 07:01 AM   #2
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Can't comment on the ER-1 however my recommendation would be the PFC 08. I ran DTC-60s for a long time in my old E36 M3 race car and eventually switched to the PFC 08. A little less initial bite but way better modulation through the brake zone. Pad and rotor wear were also superior to the DTC compounds.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...pound-394.html

Last edited by hoki06; 04-19-2022 at 07:48 PM..
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      04-19-2022, 07:39 AM   #3
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I can't comment on the ER-1 either but I will say that the DTC-70 is too much pad for these cars. I purchased my 2011 135i 6MT a few weeks ago and ran Sebring this past weekend for the first time. I've been running a DTC-70/60 combo on a heavier car for years and loved them so I ordered the same combo for the 135i and I was fighting front lockup all weekend. I run in the Time Trial group so I'm hard on brakes.

On Edit:

I take back what I typed above and wanted to share my recent experience. I ran the car two weeks ago with a little wider and a lot stickier tire. The DTC70 & 60 combo worked like they always have for me in the past and were awesome.

Last edited by Jeff9962; 07-01-2022 at 08:12 AM..
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      04-19-2022, 04:44 PM   #4
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I second the PFC-08. Best "casual" pad on the market. The Hawks are available through FCP so that's really nice... I keep a set of 70s around for my E46 in case that needs to fill some track time.
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      04-19-2022, 08:24 PM   #5
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I've run all those pads. ER1s last longer than DTC60s or 70s, but not as long as PFC08s, and the bite isn't as good as PFC08s. I had high hopes for the ER1s, but yeah - just don't last as long.

Pagid RS29s are another option and are very similar in bite and longevity to PFC08s. The best pads I've used so far at Porterfield/Raybestos ST47s, but I can't seem to find them anymore; have had a set on order for 13 months.

I'm about to try Pagid RSL1s.

-Joe
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      04-19-2022, 09:58 PM   #6
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I never tried PFC08's but maybe I should.
Where do you guys normally purchase them?
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      04-20-2022, 06:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
I never tried PFC08's but maybe I should.
Where do you guys normally purchase them?
OG Racing or Bimmerworld for me. They're both local-ish and amazing customer service. I've spent a small fortune between the two places over the past 10 years and keep going back.
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      04-20-2022, 10:31 AM   #8
Ziggy
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I found those pads at Bimmerworld but not at OG Racing.
I'm looking at part number 1371.08.16.44
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      04-20-2022, 11:04 AM   #9
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Didn't PFC stop making 08s for the 135i rear caliper a few years ago?
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      04-20-2022, 12:24 PM   #10
hoki06
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Not sure but BW has them on their website still
https://www.bimmerworld.com/PFC-Fron...ound-1371.html
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      04-21-2022, 09:27 PM   #11
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I will get them from BW, thanks!
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      04-29-2022, 09:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
I've run all those pads. ER1s last longer than DTC60s or 70s, but not as long as PFC08s, and the bite isn't as good as PFC08s. I had high hopes for the ER1s, but yeah - just don't last as long.

Pagid RS29s are another option and are very similar in bite and longevity to PFC08s. The best pads I've used so far at Porterfield/Raybestos ST47s, but I can't seem to find them anymore; have had a set on order for 13 months.

I'm about to try Pagid RSL1s.

-Joe
You can call Porterfield directly and they can custom make you an ST47 pad. We do it for ST43 compound on our Mini Cooper racecar.
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      05-01-2022, 07:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
I will get them from BW, thanks!
Which car 128i or 135i?
If it's 128i with stock calipers, I have pfc08 front pads, with v good life. I just took them off because I got big brake kit. Let me know, for a fraction of price, you can get to test them.
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      05-01-2022, 10:23 AM   #14
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No, it's 135i with the 6 pistons.
Thanks though.
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      05-02-2022, 09:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoki06 View Post
Not sure but BW has them on their website still
https://www.bimmerworld.com/PFC-Fron...ound-1371.html
Yeah those are the pads for the front calipers, I think they discontinued the rear pads.
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      05-09-2022, 06:35 AM   #16
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Here's a link to a similar post, I was always a fan of the hawk DTC70/60 over PFC but both are great. Never ran the EE-1s.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=26498797
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      06-29-2022, 07:08 PM   #17
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Looks like the ER1s may have had some production issues. Just got a free set of ER1s covered under warranty. Very curious to know if they behave differently.
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      07-25-2022, 12:55 PM   #18
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Thanks to everyone in this thread who shared their experiences/opinions on Hawk DTC-60, DTC-70, and also the PFC08s (I was never considering the Hawk ER-1) as I am a time trial track guy (really hard use for only two to four consecutive laps before I've definitely fried my tires and cooling off/heading back to pits).

My previous experience with PFC08s is that they're an excellent "do it all" pad, have decent cold bite even for non-track driving like autocross, and overall they do last a long time, but the max braking power when hot isn't quite enough for me; and if you overheat the 08s at the track, then they start to wear faster or the friction material delaminates from the backing plate, which effectively ends their life regardless of how much friction material is left.

After strongly considering the DTC-60 or DTC-70 for the front of my car (mainly because of their lower cost), I eventually decided to try the PFC-11 based not only on multiple "positive reviews" on track-driving forums, but also based on the shape of the mu vs temperature curves of the PFC 11 vs both the Hawk DTC-60 and -70... yes, the "data" from different brake pad makers definitely isn't apples to apples, but it still looks like the PFC11 should work better for me on my heavy, high-HP car (3600 lbs F80, 305/30s or 315/30s up front) over a significantly broader range of operating temps—the line graph PFC supplies indicates the PFC11 both has more stopping power than their PFC08 endurance compound when below 150°C (302°F) but also offers a gain in mu when temps climb above 600°C (1112°F) and supposedly can generate even more braking power up to 800°C (1472°F).



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      07-25-2022, 05:14 PM   #19
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As another data point I just put in a set of PFC12's and oh baby are they nice. Slightly more bite than the 08 and still have that incredible linear feel.
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