Anyone reliably tracking a 135i without limp mode on hot days?

[rogers83]

I bought a 2011 135i N55 DCT and love the car, but got limp mode on my track day, in addition to some slow-ish clunky gear changes. I’m currently running uprated VRSF intercooler, catless downpipe, BMW intake, MHD stage 2+.

I did some reading about twin oil coolers for the engine and retrofitting an oil cooler for the DCT. However, I have been put off by others saying the 135i will never reliably run without limp mode and will be a black hole.

Can anyone share their experiences on limp mode and whether it’s actually possible to cure it on a hot track day? I live in Sydney, Australia.

If I can’t feel confident that some cooling mods will totally eradicate limp mode, I’ll have to sell it, which I don’t want to do.

All real world experience and advice welcome!

[Gneiss]

Sorry if this isn't helpful at all, but I just don't track my car Jun-Aug and I have never had a temperature related limp mode. But I understand if you want to attend certain events that might not be a tenable strategy.

More practically speaking, after adding oil coolers, you could try running a lower state of tune and the car should run a bit cooler. "Totally eradicate" while tracking in the summer may be a difficult goal.

[mKilgore]

Getting rid of limp mode, even on the hottest of days, is completely possible with both car mods and driver mods.

Often, there are two main culprits for getting limp mode at a track day, either oil temps or "brake" temps. I would suggest upgrading your oil cooler to a larger capacity cooler. No need for a dual setup. If you upgrade your single oil cooler to a larger capacity cooler with good air flow to it, that should be sufficient. If you don't want to upgrade your stock cooler, then you could retrofit a second stock cooler to the other side of the car and acheive a similar outcome. I would suggest upgrading your stock oil cooler and see if that remedies the problem.

The other issue with brakes comes from the DME "calculating" brake temps based on a variety of factors and will pull power, and eventually go into limp mode, if it thinks the brakes are being pushed outside of their working range. There is no actual temp probe, but its all done on calculations. The best thing to do here is to code out some of the brake safety features that cause issues on track. There is a sticky at the top of this section with common features people code out.

Other upgrades that can help keep cooling in check include an upgraded radiator and larger intercooler. Consider the CSF aluminum radiator and an intercooler that is stepped to provide additional cooling to the IATs.

For the DCT, this is unlikely to cause any issue with limp mode usually. The DCTs tend to be very robust and can take quite a bit of abuse. With that said, consider, at a minimum, getting the fluid changed and a new filter. If you are going to do that, I would also suggest upgrading the DCT pan to a larger capacity pan with cooling fins as well. Look at the Slonik DCT pan. Other similar pans are out there as well. Again, while most DCTs don't have any issues, helping reduce temps increase part life and helps with peace of mind.

Finally, I would also suggest that you should not have the expectation that you can take your car out for a track session and drive it full-out for the entire session (20-30 minutes). These cars do generate a lot of heat and driving full out for that long will likely result in limp mode unless you upgrade many parts to be able to handle and dissipate the heat more efficiently, like those mentioned above.

I have all of the mods mentioned above and I have never had limp mode on track. I push the car hard, but I only push for 2-3 laps, take a cool down lap, and then repeat. This is especially true in 90F plus heat in the southeast US.

I'm sure others on here have some additional opinions to add. But don't be discouraged, you can create a competent track car out of a 135i, but it just needs a little bit of help to do that.

[AndyW]

As my ability progressed in pushing the car I needed dual oil coolers, a CSF Rad and a supplemental DCT cooler to keep temps under control. Just my experience. Now, track day temps don't matter. BTW, the car will start cutting power before going to limp mode. If you look at your logs it will be a TQ1, 2, or 3 setting a 512. I don't recall which is which but one is for coolant, one is for oil, one is for DCT. This is how I started my journey to more cooling capacity. YMMV as you have an N54 vice N55. Good luck! I love my fun little 1er track monster.

[Gangplank]

@mKilgore

Any recommendation on a larger oil cooler? I'm considering some upgrades for track. I live in FL so it's always hot/humid

- [ ] Brake pads & fluid
- [ ] Intercooler - stepped
- [ ] Oil cooler - bigger
- [ ] CSF Radiator

[joeo]

Running a tune adds heat. If you run a tune with lower boost (stage one / lower octane), you'll have lower temps to deal with.

What makes a huge difference in temperature is if you can remove the air conditioner; if that's an option. Removing the front condenser allows a lot more air to the radiator.
Running with the heat on full can also help.

[AndyW]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

@mKilgore

Any recommendation on a larger oil cooler? I'm considering some upgrades for track. I live in FL so it's always hot/humid

- [ ] Brake pads & fluid
- [ ] Intercooler - stepped
- [ ] Oil cool - bigger
- [ ] CSF Radiator

- I prefer PFC and Motul 660.

- I went through a Wagner EVOI and ended up with a Wagner EVO III Comp. Depends on if you want to incrementally upgrade or just go big at the start. I have no concerns with IAT's now. Install thread: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1810459

- My final config is two Setrab 25 row coolers in a series config. If you want a prebuilt, go mosselman. My build here: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1910188

I also added a DCT cooler (now 19 row). Thread here: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1837081

- CSF Radiator. Yes. Highly recommended.

Good luck! Feel free to ask questions here, it's a small group of us that are tracking our 1ers but everyone is super helpful.

[mKilgore]

AndyW and I run similar setups. Motul 600/660 brake fluid. Wagner EvoII Competition Intercooler. (Initially, I ran a Wagner Evo I Performance, but eventually upgraded as I increased my engine mods and tune). 1x Setrab 25 row oil cooler. (I sourced my own lines, an-fittings, and made a mount, but I agree with AndyW that the Mossleman is a great option for a direct bolt-on, or Evolution Raceworks as a second option).

One thing to note is that AndyW is running upgraded turbos (N54 PS2), whereas I am still on a stock N55 turbo. So that likely accounts for AndyW's additional cooling needs. Just my .02.

Hope that helps you out.

[edycol]

1. Always run on full heat, ventilation at maximum.
2. Coolant/distilled water mix no more than 15% coolant. Distilled water has higher heat exchange.
3. Don't go with overly heavy oils. Heavier oil, more resistance =more heat. Mobil1 0W40 will cut it. Don't go 5W50 etc. unless running alcohol.
4. Take cowling out.
5. Make sure all engine covers are out of the engine compartment.

That is before cooling upgrades.

As others said, upgrade to larger oil cooler capacity as well as coolant radiator and DCT cooler.

[Jeff9962]

I've been running Time Trials with NASA for a long time now and picked up my 135i 6MT without doing much research. I sure wish I had read up about the reliability issues first. I've done two weekends, 4 days, so far and have been fighting limp mode and power reduction since day one. My home track is Sebring so it gets hot in Florida, especially away from the coast like Sebring. After my first event I had brake overheating coded out of it, switched to Amsoil and installed a Burger sport oil cooler valve. The next event was June at Sebring and after the warm up lap it didn't even make it a half lap before I was running into power reduction. Ambient temperature was around 95 degrees so it was very hot. The brake coding worked and it didn't go into full limp mode at least. I played with it through out the weekend but I had to use the straights to keep it cool enough to stay out. I was short shifting and only pulling to about 100 mph on the back straight.

My next upgrade will be a dual oil cooler setup and I'm debating about an aluminum radiator at the same time. I need to get the car reliable before I can concentrate on other area. It's a full bolt on car with a stock down pipe and no tune so I'm not pushing big horsepower. The next event is August 20-21 at Sebring so it's going to be brutally hot for that one and it will need all the help it can get.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

I've been running Time Trials with NASA for a long time now and picked up my 135i 6MT without doing much research. I sure wish I had read up about the reliability issues first. I've done two weekends, 4 days, so far and have been fighting limp mode and power reduction since day one. My home track is Sebring so it gets hot in Florida, especially away from the coast like Sebring. After my first event I had brake overheating coded out of it, switched to Amsoil and installed a Burger sport oil cooler valve. The next event was June at Sebring and after the warm up lap it didn't even make it a half lap before I was running into power reduction. Ambient temperature was around 95 degrees so it was very hot. The brake coding worked and it didn't go into full limp mode at least. I played with it through out the weekend but I had to use the straights to keep it cool enough to stay out. I was short shifting and only pulling to about 100 mph on the back straight.

My next upgrade will be a dual oil cooler setup and I'm debating about an aluminum radiator at the same time. I need to get the car reliable before I can concentrate on other area. It's a full bolt on car with a stock down pipe and no tune so I'm not pushing big horsepower. The next event is August 20-21 at Sebring so it's going to be brutally hot for that one and it will need all the help it can get.

What Amsoil are you running? I would switch to Mobil1 0W40 as HTHS is 3.6cP. It is well into required HTHS but low enough together with low KV100 to not create too much resistance.
Go CSF radiator and go low coolant concentration. You will still need bigger oil cooler or two , but this will help you.
As for oil thermostat, it doesn't matter whether it is 90 or 110c. You want system that will maintain temperature around 125-130c on track. If you can achieve that, 110c thermostat is better.
Don't forget cowling. It is ridiculous what effect it has on engine cooling.

[Gary@simod.net]

yep. 93 degree temps at VIR and it is super humid at VIR. 250 degree max temp on oil.

We have our race car set up with two 25 row setrab coolers one on each corner. with a CSF radiator and the water pump running all the time.
and. run the deforester on max all the time when you are on track it sucks around 10-15 degrees of coolant temp out.

If you can keep the oil cool you should have no issues. Also look up the nannies you need to disable for track use once those are also off they help

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

My home track is Sebring so it gets hot in Florida, especially away from the coast like Sebring.
…
After my first event I had brake overheating coded out of it, switched to Amsoil and installed a Burger sport oil cooler valve.
…
The brake coding worked and it didn't go into full limp mode at least. I played with it through out the weekend but I had to use the straights to keep it cool enough to stay out. I was short shifting and only pulling to about 100 mph on the back straight.
..,
My next upgrade will be a dual oil cooler setup and I'm debating about an aluminum radiator at the same time.
…
The next event is August 20-21 at Sebring so it's going to be brutally hot for that one and it will need all the help it can get.

Where did you get the coding done? I'm in Vero Beach, FL.

I know bimmergeeks protool can do it but I don't have an android device and it's not IOS (iPhone) friendly

I'm hoping to do some track days this winter and planning some upgrades. Cooling first of course.

[imported_mega]

happy to report no limp modes this year. It was 95 at roebling road and I got right up to the oil temp power reduction but did not hit it!

car has factory oil thermostat with 2 slightly larger than stock oil coolers and a significant splitter. FBO/relocated inlets and larger outlets running 21psi flash+jb4+wiper fluid injection

I have not had a oil temp limp this year. I still have low oil pressure issues on trail brake left hand turns

[Jeff9962]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Where did you get the coding done? I'm in Vero Beach, FL.

I know bimmergeeks protool can do it but I don't have an android device and it's not IOS (iPhone) friendly

I'm hoping to do some track days this winter and planning some upgrades. Cooling first of course.

There's a small BMW shop across the street from my work in Orlando and he has an individual come in to do his coding. I paid him in cash and didn't even get his name.

Since my June Sebring event I've installed a Mosselman single cooler, flushed the radiator with distilled water & water wetter and changed to Mobil 1 0W-40. I'm supposed to run Sebring this weekend but it appears that my high pressure fuel pump is going south. If I can get it sorted out in time then I'll know if the added cooling worked or if I still need to add the second oil cooler.

[Jeff9962]

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

Since my June Sebring event I've installed a Mosselman single cooler, flushed the radiator with distilled water & water wetter and changed to Mobil 1 0W-40. I'm supposed to run Sebring this weekend but it appears that my high pressure fuel pump is going south. If I can get it sorted out in time then I'll know if the added cooling worked or if I still need to add the second oil cooler.

Yes, I'm quoting myself. Got the car sorted out and headed to Sebring to see if my cooling issues would continue. This is August in Florida so it's hot! I'm happy to say that it took one warm up lap and three full hot laps before the oil temps were hitting close to 270, time to cool it down and come in. This is running Time Trials so it's full tilt pushed to the limits racing. I had not been able to make a full lap prior to this without getting into power reduction and/or limp mode so this was a very positive outcome. I know adding the second cooler will take care of it completely.

Now for the bad...When I came in from that session I couldn't hear the noise with my helmet on but I pulled up to my pit stall and left it idling I could hear a light knock. The motor now has a very light rod knock that almost goes away when the oil is cold. The car has 114,000 miles on it and I have my doubts about regular maintenance but it's not tuned and still has the stock downpipe so no major power adders. I guess I'm going to drop the pan and see if the crank journals are damaged and what the bearing look like. If no crank damage I'll replace the bearings but I just can't afford a full rebuild at the moment. It's an expensive hobby.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

Yes, I'm quoting myself. Got the car sorted out and headed to Sebring to see if my cooling issues would continue. This is August in Florida so it's hot! I'm happy to say that it took one warm up lap and three full hot laps before the oil temps were hitting close to 270, time to cool it down and come in. This is running Time Trials so it's full tilt pushed to the limits racing. I had not been able to make a full lap prior to this without getting into power reduction and/or limp mode so this was a very positive outcome. I know adding the second cooler will take care of it completely.

Now for the bad...When I came in from that session I couldn't hear the noise with my helmet on but I pulled up to my pit stall and left it idling I could hear a light knock. The motor now has a very light rod knock that almost goes away when the oil is cold. The car has 114,000 miles on it and I have my doubts about regular maintenance but it's not tuned and still has the stock downpipe so no major power adders. I guess I'm going to drop the pan and see if the crank journals are damaged and what the bearing look like. If no crank damage I'll replace the bearings but I just can't afford a full rebuild at the moment. It's an expensive hobby.

We'll good to hear the cooling upgrades helped. Unfortunate about the knock. Fingers crossed it's not major.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

Yes, I'm quoting myself. Got the car sorted out and headed to Sebring to see if my cooling issues would continue. This is August in Florida so it's hot! I'm happy to say that it took one warm up lap and three full hot laps before the oil temps were hitting close to 270, time to cool it down and come in. This is running Time Trials so it's full tilt pushed to the limits racing. I had not been able to make a full lap prior to this without getting into power reduction and/or limp mode so this was a very positive outcome. I know adding the second cooler will take care of it completely.

Now for the bad...When I came in from that session I couldn't hear the noise with my helmet on but I pulled up to my pit stall and left it idling I could hear a light knock. The motor now has a very light rod knock that almost goes away when the oil is cold. The car has 114,000 miles on it and I have my doubts about regular maintenance but it's not tuned and still has the stock downpipe so no major power adders. I guess I'm going to drop the pan and see if the crank journals are damaged and what the bearing look like. If no crank damage I'll replace the bearings but I just can't afford a full rebuild at the moment. It's an expensive hobby.

Did you overfill sump? Hopefully you didn't starve it.

[ByeByeVTEC]

Hi,

Did you ever figure out if the bearings were gone?

I am currently shopping for an e82. The devil on my shoulder says N55 while the angel says 128i and be happy with a slower but more reliable car.

I only track maybe 1- 2 days a year (but always wishing to do more) as well as a few autocross a year (mostly in the winter actually, our 'slush series'). It seems like these types of failures don't really matter how often you go; just if you get lucky or not on each day.

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

Yes, I'm quoting myself. Got the car sorted out and headed to Sebring to see if my cooling issues would continue. This is August in Florida so it's hot! I'm happy to say that it took one warm up lap and three full hot laps before the oil temps were hitting close to 270, time to cool it down and come in. This is running Time Trials so it's full tilt pushed to the limits racing. I had not been able to make a full lap prior to this without getting into power reduction and/or limp mode so this was a very positive outcome. I know adding the second cooler will take care of it completely.

Now for the bad...When I came in from that session I couldn't hear the noise with my helmet on but I pulled up to my pit stall and left it idling I could hear a light knock. The motor now has a very light rod knock that almost goes away when the oil is cold. The car has 114,000 miles on it and I have my doubts about regular maintenance but it's not tuned and still has the stock downpipe so no major power adders. I guess I'm going to drop the pan and see if the crank journals are damaged and what the bearing look like. If no crank damage I'll replace the bearings but I just can't afford a full rebuild at the moment. It's an expensive hobby.

[Jeff9962]

Originally Posted by missMyVTEC

Hi,

Did you ever figure out if the bearings were gone?

I am currently shopping for an e82. The devil on my shoulder says N55 while the angel says 128i and be happy with a slower but more reliable car.

I only track maybe 1- 2 days a year (but always wishing to do more) as well as a few autocross a year (mostly in the winter actually, our 'slush series'). It seems like these types of failures don't really matter how often you go; just if you get lucky or not on each day.

Yes, the number 6 bearing spun pretty hard and beat up the crank a bit. I cleaned it up with emory cloth, replaced the bearings, far from the best solution, and will be firing it up for the first time this Saturday. Just need to replace the belt tensioner, install the belt and fill it with oil. It's going up for sale when it's running again with full disclosure to the buyer of course. I bought a C5 Z06 a few weeks ago and will be hitting Sebring with it on June 24th. Get a 128i and stay away from the 135's would be my advice.

[ByeByeVTEC]

Whoops - Just reading this one now.... Well, I got a 135i so wish me luck!

Originally Posted by Jeff9962

Yes, the number 6 bearing spun pretty hard and beat up the crank a bit. I cleaned it up with emory cloth, replaced the bearings, far from the best solution, and will be firing it up for the first time this Saturday. Just need to replace the belt tensioner, install the belt and fill it with oil. It's going up for sale when it's running again with full disclosure to the buyer of course. I bought a C5 Z06 a few weeks ago and will be hitting Sebring with it on June 24th. Get a 128i and stay away from the 135's would be my advice.