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      04-11-2018, 11:07 PM   #1
insanecoder
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Why the Russians would be forced to "respond" this time

Zasypkin warned missiles and source platforms would both be targeted
and lo and behold the Tartus fleet is thusly out to sea with US submarine hunters active likely trying to locate the Russia sub
Gentlemanly restraint-style warfare shown by the Russians in threatening only tit-for-tat retaliation.
Of course to some old-timers like myself, this itself seemingly shows weakness.
Of course conventionally on paper, the Russians cannot withstand a NATO conflict sans-nuclear.
..on paper

Lets ask what would happen IF the Russians stand idly by in Syria as its ally is crushed by NATO under its nose.

#1 Kiss Syria's military hardware goodbye and Russia's southern front
The first round of attacks imo were designed to test the Russian's electronic warfare capabilities.
This second round of attacks would be only done because they have a strategy around the Russian capabilities as detected in the previous strike.
The Russians very well know this and understand this round of more comprehensive strikes would set back the Assad regime from wrapping up its fight against the Sunni-NATO proxy terrorists (ISIS/Al-nusra/Syrian rebels).
Anotherwords, they would be giving up alot of gains they fought for over the last year.. because in the aftermath, the terrorists would resweep back into the vacuum created
With Israel & Saudis looking for more involvement, this soft southern underbelly of Russia would be ripe for the gutting.
Which would mean Syria falls, Iran stands alone but not for long it too would domino in due time.. and the southern front is exposed to Russia.

#2 Kiss Russian aura of invincibility Goodbye
Western countries pussyfoot with verbage..Obama's regime comes straight to mind.
Not so with the Russians.
Aura of strength is dependent upon being able to back up your threats.
Centuries of fighting European incursions and plitical upheaval have produced a Russian who is used to the hard life and knows he must stand and fight as a way of life..theyre not afraid to fight.
This is a line in the sand it is understood if its not respected then it won't be respected elsewhere.
Elsewhere? Ukraine and the far-east in North Korea.
The US strategy is to pressure Russia in all fronts and squeeze economically then setup for regime change.
East, west, its southern belly (middle-east).
The Russians know this and have held firm in all arenas in this politically-correct game of proxy war gentleman-style.
In the Far-east they have the benefit of China's proximity.
In Europe, they stand alone facing the advancing NATO alliance.
It is in the southern front where they must hold steady with its allies Syria/Iran performing the grunt work.. and return strikes honestly tit for tat in hoping to buy time and slow the spiral from developing into full blown conflict.
If this fails the West will full court press even more aggressively and daringly in the European Front.
Even more dangerous (for Putin) perhaps is that his support at home deteriorates thereafter..

Moreover, under all circumstances, they are in the just and right.
The US/UK government is violating international laws during these two decades of neocon skullduggery and thievery

The Russian strategy is thusly TIT-FOR-TAT escalating only with the intensity NATO applies.
Its a sensible defense strategy in this criminal-neocon nuclear era.
TIT-FOR-TAT means they WILL follow through this time around..
the question is will crazy Trump actually carryout the order from his masters?
and then will this spiral out of control?
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      04-12-2018, 10:25 AM   #2
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Well now we wait for reinforcements ie.. another carrier group to arrive to ensure our strike group's safety
cause theres a Russian fleet with sub out to sea in the Mediterranean
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      04-12-2018, 03:21 PM   #3
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You forgot that tit-for-tat is preceeded by take-for-free. Like when Russia took Crimea or China built military bases is the middle of the ocean.

We should've engaged in some sort of tit-for-tat also. Hard to envision in Crimea, but we could have built islands in the South China Seas, 1 for 1. Bizarre idea, but it would have had interesting outcomes. Better than what we have now.

Either way, empty-words is by far the worst strategy. Just don't say anything if you're not going to follow through.
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      04-12-2018, 03:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
You forgot that tit-for-tat is preceeded by take-for-free. Like when Russia took Crimea or China built military bases is the middle of the ocean.

We should've engaged in some sort of tit-for-tat also. Hard to envision in Crimea, but we could have built islands in the South China Seas, 1 for 1. Bizarre idea, but it would have had interesting outcomes. Better than what we have now.

Either way, empty-words is by far the worst strategy. Just don't say anything if you're not going to follow through.
That would've been pretty funny if we started building an island by China's new one.
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      04-12-2018, 03:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
That would've been pretty funny if we started building an island by China's new one.
Right? We could've been like,...

"what island?"

"huh, no peaceful only, vacations brah. snorkeling. hawaii overcrowded."

"no military, only for defense. we scared of YOU guys. you're so advanced now"

"oh - what? we have an airforce, surface-to-air missles and a submarine bay? whoops. totally accidental. my bad. just took on a life of its own."
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      04-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
Right? We could've been like,...

"what island?"

"huh, no peaceful only, vacations brah. snorkeling. hawaii overcrowded."

"no military, only for defense. we scared of YOU guys. you're so advanced now"

"oh - what? we have an airforce, surface-to-air missles and a submarine bay? whoops. totally accidental. my bad. just took on a life of its own."
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      04-12-2018, 04:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
You forgot that tit-for-tat is preceeded by take-for-free. Like when Russia took Crimea or China built military bases is the middle of the ocean.

We should've engaged in some sort of tit-for-tat also. Hard to envision in Crimea, but we could have built islands in the South China Seas, 1 for 1. Bizarre idea, but it would have had interesting outcomes. Better than what we have now.

Either way, empty-words is by far the worst strategy. Just don't say anything if you're not going to follow through.
I believe the Russians are looking to follow thru
Good thing is as each day passes waiting for that slow carrier group to show up
.. the chance for diffusing of the situation
perhaps evidence arises proving definitively this is a false flag causing a stand-down or diplomacy of some sort
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      04-12-2018, 05:33 PM   #8
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It would be well for your government to consider that having your ships and ours, your aircraft and ours, in such proximity... is inherently DANGEROUS. Wars have begun that way, Mr. Ambassador.
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      04-12-2018, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
It would be well for your government to consider that having your ships and ours, your aircraft and ours, in such proximity... is inherently DANGEROUS. Wars have begun that way, Mr. Ambassador.
One of my all time favorites.
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      04-12-2018, 08:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
One of my all time favorites.
We should conduct all replies in this thread from lines in the movie. I'll start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Rb0QLxcvowk
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      04-12-2018, 10:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
We should conduct all replies in this thread from lines in the movie. I'll start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Rb0QLxcvowk
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      04-13-2018, 04:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
My favourite line!
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      04-13-2018, 09:59 AM   #13
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If this is the modern chic way of saying Russians arent stupid
yea I agree
just dont have the time to lookup movie clips to state it lol
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      04-13-2018, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
If this is the modern chic way of saying Russians arent stupid
yea I agree
just dont have the time to lookup movie clips to state it lol
Depends on what definition of stupid you are using. Putin has done things to increase his power and personal wealth to the detriment of his own country and countries around him. This has isolated him from most of the world.

I think Trump thought he could persuade Putin to change some of his thinking by helping Russia/Putin come back from being a pariah state and make him and Russia richer with economics. Unfortunately, what Putin wants is much more than money and economic power, he via Russia wants to be a top power again like in the glory days of the CCCP. And he wants to do without the US involved.
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      04-13-2018, 02:12 PM   #15
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"Moreover, under all circumstances, they are in the just and right.
The US/UK government is violating international laws during these two decades of neocon skullduggery and thievery"

Insane, I've got no problem with your second sentence. This country has been violating, and supporting our allies violating, the Geneva Convention for 60 years. It's that first sentence that I'm choking on. Do you mean that Russia is just and right? How are they just and right? Does that mean that the Assad government, that is supported by Russia, is also just and right.? The Syrian administration has used siren (sp) gas in 2013, 2015, and 2017 to kill Syrian civilians. They've also chlorine gas and phosphorus bombs on civilian targets. The fact that the Russian government refuses to acknowledge this makes them the complete opposite of "just and right". One more thing, who are Trumps masters?
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      04-13-2018, 02:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
"Moreover, under all circumstances, they are in the just and right.
The US/UK government is violating international laws during these two decades of neocon skullduggery and thievery"

Insane, I've got no problem with your second sentence. This country has been violating, and supporting our allies violating, the Geneva Convention for 60 years. It's that first sentence that I'm choking on. Do you mean that Russia is just and right? How are they just and right? Does that mean that the Assad government, that is supported by Russia, is also just and right.? The Syrian administration has used siren (sp) gas in 2013, 2015, and 2017 to kill Syrian civilians. They've also chlorine gas and phosphorus bombs on civilian targets. The fact that the Russian government refuses to acknowledge this makes them the complete opposite of "just and right". One more thing, who are Trumps masters?

The supposed occurrence in 2013 was again in Ghouta so its highly suspect as was this latest occurrence.
John Kerry said in 2014 they they got ALL of Syria's chemical weapons out.. and hes the sec of state privy to upper levels of intel.. so was he lying? How could they attack in 2015/17/18 2020+ whenever?


AND LO AND BEHOLD
as indicated previously
the crawling carrier group gives the Russians time to investigate the area which is now fully under government control
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-blame...k-syria-885679

..time for evidence on both sides.. yes like a REAL trial.. evidence please form BOTH sides
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      04-13-2018, 05:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
The supposed occurrence in 2013 was again in Ghouta so its highly suspect as was this latest occurrence.
John Kerry said in 2014 they they got ALL of Syria's chemical weapons out.. and hes the sec of state privy to upper levels of intel.. so was he lying? How could they attack in 2015/17/18 2020+ whenever?


AND LO AND BEHOLD
as indicated previously
the crawling carrier group gives the Russians time to investigate the area which is now fully under government control
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-blame...k-syria-885679

..time for evidence on both sides.. yes like a REAL trial.. evidence please form BOTH sides
The Syrians gave up what they said was their entire stockpile of chemical weapons, but they have refused to let UN inspectors in to the country to verify. I agree, there should be a "trial". Do you think Assad or Putin would ever let that happen? Do you trust the Russian "investigation"? "AND LO AND BEHOLD"; "Without evidence, Konashenkov said that Britain was "directly involved in the provocation," the Associated Press reported." I'm surprised that NewsWeek even printed the story. Trump has done exactly what he (rightly) ridiculed Obama of, drawing a red line and then doing nothing. He can't do anything because, as you correctly point out, the Russians will escalate this to a major conflict. Still waiting on who Trump's masters are.
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      04-14-2018, 07:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
The Syrians gave up what they said was their entire stockpile of chemical weapons, but they have refused to let UN inspectors in to the country to verify. I agree, there should be a "trial". Do you think Assad or Putin would ever let that happen? Do you trust the Russian "investigation"? "AND LO AND BEHOLD"; "Without evidence, Konashenkov said that Britain was "directly involved in the provocation," the Associated Press reported." I'm surprised that NewsWeek even printed the story. Trump has done exactly what he (rightly) ridiculed Obama of, drawing a red line and then doing nothing. He can't do anything because, as you correctly point out, the Russians will escalate this to a major conflict. Still waiting on who Trump's masters are.
Listen there are numerous claims on both sides
without bogging down in every single one which cant be proven either way on an internet forum of all places..

the bottoms line is there is no motivation for Syria to use chemical weapons in any effort to win its war against terrorists

theyve largely dislodged them via effective Russian coordinated airstrikes and conventional sweeps
if they want to punish the insurgents/terrorist, the convention way is to round them up afterwards
no gas needed

chemical weapons usage are for the desperate
desperation = Syrian terrorists who are about to be annihilated or relegated to the east of the Euphrates

motivations are the causes of actions.. look to the motivations
every crimescene investigator worth his hat knows this
oh sorry these false flags arent meant to be really investigated are they?

I mean who fires first
and then sends in investigators later?

who executes.. then has a trial?
theres plenty of time to fire all the tomahawk you want after you've gone through due process instead of what happened here
let both sides present their supposed evidence.. BOTH SIDES.. unless anyone is afraid of the truth

upside down bizarro world
sorry indefensible
I certainly hope this "system" does not come to mainland USA
I dont think our population even though currently asleep will tolerate this type of justice one bit
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      04-14-2018, 07:23 AM   #19
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Vladimir Putin calls Syria bombing raids ‘act of aggression’ as Russia warns of ‘consequences’ over air strikes
Russians calling this an insult

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/605046...ladimir-putin/

THE TRUMAN SHOW
Theres still the Truman on its way.. subsequent round of attacks may not be far off
It does not appear this initial round of a hundred or so tomahawks did very much to effect Syrias overall military capabilities
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      04-14-2018, 07:32 AM   #20
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Ironically US France Britian attacks and draws this type of response although at this point just strong verbage

Israel attacks and .. <sound of crickets>
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      04-14-2018, 07:00 PM   #21
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Syria says they hit 70% of the tomahawks lobbed at them
MEANWHILE
Pentagon says they hit all their targets
Now does that mean every tomahawk hit its target?
I suppose that does not mean that the pentagon claim all the tomahawks got thru.. I suppose if 30 odd tomahawks go thru and hit their targets the pentagon can still claim they hit their targets

wonder what the truth is.. maybe somewhere in the middle?

Meanwhile I applaud Russia's patience in light of what is happening
their political strategy is fairly effective..
restraint + patience + calls for investigations to get to what happened instead of rushing to judgement
OR not getting perturbed by western prodding and starting a war
they are showing they are the mature actors on the global stage I'm afraid
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      04-16-2018, 09:17 AM   #22
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Make no mistake about it
if you investigate history leading up to WW2 (and Im not talking about standard history class books boys and girls)
you will understand and see the parallels in the same playbook being used by the provocateurs
the same plays being used to provoke little by little
public perception being crafted article by article by the media full of one-sided opines to try to setup distrust & hatred
whilst the dissension, investigation, truth is silenced or not reported

yes this is leading up to war (think about it.. where else is this ultimately going? .. certainly not up to a make-up tea party)
is this what we all want..that is given to us?
is the theatrics in Syria (and what they are really after..hint: its not caring about its people).. worth what is coming?

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Einstein
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