Handling as good as an M3

[n54door]

I know various M3 bits are compatible with the 135i. My question is, with these parts installed, would the car handle as good, or close to, the M3? Has anyone compared the two on a road course?

As much as I love the M3's, I can't get over the size of the 3 series compared to the 1 series. A 1M is out of the question.

The plan would be to install the following M3 parts:

Front control arms
Front sway bar/bushings
Rear subframe bushings
Rear sway bar

Non M3:
Caster/Camber plates
Decent set of coilovers
LSD, possibly

[slonik]

after our 135 prepared for trackdays first things, i'd choose -st xta coilovers and rear subframe bushings (only solid!).

all other bits don't give you so many difference.

they are also useful but i'd prefer to make them only after coilovers and subframe bushes, as additional preparation.

[BMW135pls]

I've read that the 135i with the M bits and other suspension upgrades handles better than an M3 due to being lighter and having a more favorable wheelbase for cornering and such. I mean it sucks to have to put that work into it, but the potential is there, and that's what matters.

[E82MSport]

I've been in a handful of E46's and E90's (M3's) on track both modified and stock and I still think the M3 handles better as compared to my 1er. Can the 1-series handle better than a stock M3 when modified? Yes as compared to a stock M3 but probably not an equally modified M3. The amount you would have to do to a 1er as compared to an M3 in terms of handling is way more costly to gain the same performance. Wheel base actually does make a big difference.

[n54door]

good info, thanks guys!

It sounds like coilovers and subframe bushings are a good start. Then, front control arms and a sway bar.

[swagon]

Don't think so, there's more to the chassis than just swapping parts.

Add proper brake kit and 1 M/M3 steering rack to your list.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by swagon

Don't think so, there's more to the chassis than just swapping parts.

Add proper brake kit and 1 M/M3 steering rack to your list.

Heck, after swapping into all the m3 bits and then a the m3 steering rack. might as well sell the 1er and buy a used m3 to toss around. my 2 cents...

[Dackelone]

An M3 would still handle a little bit better - even with all the M3 bits. I think the mail reason is bc the M3 has a longer wheel base and seems to be more stable at high speeds(with bump steer than my 1er). All that said... I still LOVE my 135i.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

seems to be more stable at high speeds(with bump steer than my 1er). All that said... I still LOVE my 135i.

David, that's what I found out on the way from Italy this Sunday. The car is just not stable at high speeds - we're talking 160 and more.

Situation: 190 on the clock, straight Autobahn section, steering wheels straight and the fucking car moves to the right (or left)!

I was fighting the car quite a bit. Our M Sport E91 totally does not do that. I don't believe it's just because of the shorter wheelbase. Have you felt any difference with the M bushings? We do have non-RFT tires and KW coilovers...

BTW: your car was exceptionally clean, man. The leather was like new!

[slonik]

David, that's what I found out on the way from Italy this Sunday. The car is just not stable at high speeds - we're talking 160 and more.

Situation: 190 on the clock, straight Autobahn section, steering wheels straight and the fucking car moves to the right (or left)!

I was fighting the car quite a bit. Our M Sport E91 totally does not do that. I don't believe it's just because of the shorter wheelbase. Have you felt any difference with the M bushings? We do have non-RFT tires and KW coilovers...

BTW: your car was exceptionally clean, man. The leather was like new!

160/190 miles or kilometers?

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by swagon

David, that's what I found out on the way from Italy this Sunday. The car is just not stable at high speeds - we're talking 160 and more.

Situation: 190 on the clock, straight Autobahn section, steering wheels straight and the fucking car moves to the right (or left)!

I was fighting the car quite a bit. Our M Sport E91 totally does not do that. I don't believe it's just because of the shorter wheelbase. Have you felt any difference with the M bushings? We do have non-RFT tires and KW coilovers...

BTW: your car was exceptionally clean, man. The leather was like new!

What you are talking about sounds like floating, a problem which is caused by the stock dampers. I experience this problem to varying degrees anywhere above 90mph. Apparently going with upgrade dampers and having an alignment which supports that kind of speed solves the issue. The rear bushings cause their own set of problems, but the only thing you'll feel going in a straight line by them is squat on acceleration and overactive bump response. Mostly you feel the effects of the stock bushings in turns, the rear end feels very uneasy while cornering. The bushings did solve this in my experience, and the M bushings are still only rubber. If you go with a harder poly or solid bushing, it'll probably be even more solid.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by slonik

160/190 miles or kilometers?

KPH. After 170 kph our e82's tend to move around some. Over 240 kph... you really need to "read" the road and be quick to react.

Originally Posted by swagon

David, that's what I found out on the way from Italy this Sunday. The car is just not stable at high speeds - we're talking 160 and more.

Situation: 190 on the clock, straight Autobahn section, steering wheels straight and the fucking car moves to the right (or left)!

I was fighting the car quite a bit. Our M Sport E91 totally does not do that. I don't believe it's just because of the shorter wheelbase. Have you felt any difference with the M bushings? We do have non-RFT tires and KW coilovers...

BTW: your car was exceptionally clean, man. The leather was like new!

Yes, I agree. Have your alignment checked. Especially since your car was lowered. Springs will sag and "take a set" after some time. This will also change the alignment. My left rear wheel's toe was out of specs when my car was six months old.

I also noticed after I installed Michelin PS3's (non runflats) in 225/255's... that the car drove somewhat more stable at high speeds. But for sustained high speed driving... I prefer my "old" e39 535i (245 PS, V8 auto). Maybe I am getting old. I love my 135i with almost 400 PS... but the high speed characteristics are challenging at times. It also depends on the road surface too. But all in all... the 1er could or SHOULD drive batter at high speeds.

I won't even get into the corners of the hood, peeling off(up) at 190 kph and higher! Looking at THAT is quite scary!

Maybe IF I went with all the M3 control arms and new shocks and springs my car would handle better at high speeds. ? I'll probably do that soon. The "other" deep sea blue 135i I was with(BIT plates) had all the M3 goodies done plus a Koni suspension with DINAN springs. Wade's car is a weapon in the turns. My car was stock suspension wise except for PS3 tires and M3 rear subframe bushings. Having 380 PS helps me rocket out of the turns though!

Thanks for the nice words about my car. I rather liked your "lowered" ride too. It was a pleasure to meet you. I hope to have all my pics ready by next week for our photo/thread on Sella 2.0

Dackel

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

KPH. After 170 kph our e82's tend to move around some. Over 240 kph... you really need to "read" the road and be quick to react.

Yes, I agree. Have your alignment checked. Especially since your car was lowered. Springs will sag and "take a set" after some time. This will also change the alignment. My left rear wheel's toe was out of specs when my car was six months old.

I also noticed after I installed Michelin PS3's (non runflats) in 225/255's... that the car drove somewhat more stable at high speeds. But for sustained high speed driving... I prefer my "old" e39 535i (245 PS, V8 auto). Maybe I am getting old. I love my 135i with almost 400 PS... but the high speed characteristics are challenging at times. It also depends on the road surface too. But all in all... the 1er could or SHOULD drive batter at high speeds.

I won't even get into the corners of the hood, peeling off(up) at 190 kph and higher! Looking at THAT is quite scary!

Maybe IF I went with all the M3 control arms and new shocks and springs my car would handle better at high speeds. ? I'll probably do that soon. The "other" deep sea blue 135i I was with(BIT plates) had all the M3 goodies done plus a Koni suspension with DINAN springs. Wade's car is a weapon in the turns. My car was stock suspension wise except for PS3 tires and M3 rear subframe bushings. Having 380 PS helps me rocket out of the turns though!

Thanks for the nice words about my car. I rather liked your "lowered" ride too. It was a pleasure to meet you. I hope to have all my pics ready by next week for our photo/thread on Sella 2.0

Dackel

Got it aligned a week after the install. Think I'll get it checked once again... It was frustrating to drive at those speeds.

I remember reading something about the hood, yeah. Mine didn't open thankfully.

I talked to him a little bit about the car and he's got it set up very nicely. Assured me that the bushings are a must. And a pain in the ass to install. There's no proper Indy shop I know of and I don't think it is DIY-able without the bushing tool. We'll see. I hope they'll help with the stability like 135pls said. I'm glad we've pulled the trigger and went with the KW's. It looks much better now and more importantly drives better as well. Above 70 km/h they start to work their magic. Get some Bilstein B12; even five hundred euros will make a difference.

It was a pleasure to meet you too. So glad we went with you guys.

[amsnow440]

One of the BIGGEST and probably most often overlooked aspects of our 1er's handling is the inability to put even reasonably sized tires on it. I mean, comparing a car that you can BARELY fit a 255 square setup on to a car that comes stock with 265/245 is not even a fair comparison. Yes suspension geometries are very important as well as individual suspension components, but tires are one of if not the biggest handling upgrades you can make to a car IMO.

[slonik]

KPH. After 170 kph our e82's tend to move around some. Over 240 kph... you really need to "read" the road and be quick to react.

tire size and pressure?

it's not too fast for problems like that.

our 135 was very unstable on 200+ , when it was on b6 with stock springs and full stock on other suspension components.
now it very stable, even on 240+kmh.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by swagon

Don't think so, there's more to the chassis than just swapping parts.

Add proper brake kit and 1 M/M3 steering rack to your list.

This - I had all the m3 suspension except steering rack and the e92 still felt better.

OP - I would also likely skip the rear sway bar.

[n54door]

All good advice in this thread! Thanks guys!

Sounds like the M3 rear sway bar isn't worth the trouble. And, the M3 steering rack will make a noticeable improvement too, which I never thought of.


So far:

FRONT
M3 Sway Bar / End links
M3 Control Arms
M3 Steering Rack
Upgrade the Brakes & Lines
ST XTA Coil-over suspension

REAR
M3 or Solid Sub-Frame bushings
ST XTA Coil-over suspension


What are the thoughts on aerodynamics? The 1 is a very boxy car, and I feel aerodynamics may help improve the 'floating' we have at high speeds.

[MDMA 135i]

You already bought st xta?

[dbronnik]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

This - I had all the m3 suspension except steering rack and the e92 still felt better.

OP - I would also likely skip the rear sway bar.

Why skip the rear bar?

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by dbronnik

Why skip the rear bar?

You may not need it. The car may oversteer too much. I would start with just the front bar and coilovers and see how the car behaves - if it under steers too much than you can add the rear bar to compensate.

[dbronnik]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

You may not need it. The car may oversteer too much. I would start with just the front bar and coilovers and see how the car behaves - if it under steers too much than you can add the rear bar to compensate.

I see -- that makes sense. I guess I was thinking you may as well do the rear bar when you do the RSFB to save on labor since the subframe would be dropped already

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by dbronnik

I see -- that makes sense. I guess I was thinking you may as well do the rear bar when you do the RSFB to save on labor since the subframe would be dropped already

You will save money on labor if you need the bar- if you don't it is costing you more as you bought something you don't need.

The berk time attack car ran a stock rear bar.