BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-26-2019, 05:28 AM   #1
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

If you have aftemarket AA Headers..Please stop in

I am just trying to gather some information as I am frequently seeing these posts. So if you have AA Catless headers installed on your car, would you please answer as best as you can. This is about the "Idle Stumble" issue.

Thanks.

Do you have an idle issue after installation?
If so:

1. N51 or N52 Engine?

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?

3. Who is your tune from?

4. How long have you had them installed?

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?

What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved.

I know all of this is vague, but just trying to gather some information on why some people could be seeing this issue, and why some are not. You know how the internet works, most of the people with the problems will let you know, but others with no issues typically don't post about it unless they are posting about their gains!

Thanks guys!
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 2
GBE827.50
croy0.00
      02-26-2019, 07:45 AM   #2
crowtrobot
First Lieutenant
365
Rep
317
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Philly

iTrader: (1)

1. N51

2. Stock secondary cats, BMW PE

3. AA (rev 3)

4. Two years (Feb 2017)

5. I have not had the idle issue for some time. Pulled the battery cable and drove a while to make sure the adaptations reset. This may have something to do with the rev. 3 tune, the older tune still had the idle fluctuations.

Word of caution, with the PE, the exhaust is loud. Kind of raspy and there is a fair amount of drone around 2500rpm. My honest opinion: I'd spend the money elsewhere. I don't regret having it on the car, but if I were to do it over again, I'd have put the money into suspension or new wheels/tires. The PE alone makes the car sound awesome in my opinion, and the bump in power, while noticeable, isn't necessarily worth the hassle and money. Just my $0.02.
Appreciate 3
Rmtt8206.00
b1aze565.50
      02-26-2019, 10:49 AM   #3
desertman123
E82 Mudflap Ambassador
desertman123's Avatar
United_States
2212
Rep
2,219
Posts

Drives: '08 128i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1992 Honda Beat  [9.50]
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
2014 BMW 528i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Do you have an idle issue after installation?
Nope, only before I got my tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
1. N51 or N52 Engine?
N52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
AA headers and muffler delete. Still retain secondaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
3. Who is your tune from?
BimmerLabs, custom made

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
4. How long have you had them installed?
According to my maintenance log, almost a year (since April 2018)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
Resolved once I switched from a 3-stage only tune to a custom tune to account for the headers


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved.
Custom tune

Data point because I don't have issues. Not bragging, but helps narrow down the subset of people with issues. Seems this is an N51 problem.
__________________
My 2008 128i - Sparkling Graphite/Beige - Sport pkg - 6MT - Click me!
Parents' 2014 528i - Mineral White/Ivory White - fully loaded
Instagram @Andreys_128i and @Honda.Bito
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      02-26-2019, 11:28 AM   #4
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys. It will still be awhile before I can get time to do mine, but I figured with the recent posts I had been seeing that maybe a central thread could start helping eliminate some variables for everyone.
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2019, 07:29 AM   #5
MCShred
Getting Risky ;)
MCShred's Avatar
United_States
99
Rep
57
Posts

Drives: 2010 128i 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Washington D.C.

iTrader: (0)

1.N51

2.AA Muffler,Stock Secondary Cats

3.AA

4.Two Years

5. Had an erratic idle issue with the initial tune, after emailing Nic from AA he sent me a revised tune and after about ~200 miles on the new tune the idle issue was GONE. Sometimes it just takes time for the car to learn and adjust as I experienced on both e46 and e82 platforms.
I do plan to switch over to a BPC tune after I install some MILVs...
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2019, 01:41 PM   #6
Jrfly9
Enlisted Member
8
Rep
43
Posts

Drives: 2011 128i Msport
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: 'Merica

iTrader: (0)

1. N51

2. AA Headers, PE Exhaust

3. AA tune, most updated version to my knowledge

4. 16 months

5. Idle hunting still persists, albeit slight. I can feel it drop to 500 and the slight vibration coming through the cabin. i also have had consistent, yet random stalling when cruising to a stop, unsure if related.

It may not be a big deal to some, but it drives me insane. Shitty stock audio, loud road noise, etc. is okay, but the idle hunt is annoying. I have been unable to solve.

My car has 50k and I have replaced coils, plugs, VCG and will be taking the headers off to pass inspection shortly, will report back if this solves it. Other than the eccentric cam sensor, I am not sure what else there is to replace.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2019, 06:14 AM   #7
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

As desertman123 said.....it seems to look like more and more it's an N51 issue which of course we don't have enough data points in here yet to 100% make that assumption.

But it would make sense since it is controlled to "tighter" emissions that it would be more sensitive to a change such as cat-less headers.

I haven't really looked at the emission differences between the N51 and N52, only know so far that the N51 came stock with a 3SI and lower compression from the factory.
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 1
      03-05-2019, 12:20 PM   #8
gixracer
Lieutenant
gixracer's Avatar
United_States
278
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: 1M3/SlickN55/SlickN54/128
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Waterford, Michigan

iTrader: (6)

1. N51 or N52 Engine?
n52 w/ 3 stage IM
2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
AA headers/ stock mid/AA axle back
3. Who is your tune from?
AA
4. How long have you had them installed?
1.5 years
5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
No
What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved.


I enjoy reving it out, no issues here
__________________
128i Msport, 1M3=1M clone +S65= N55 swapped former 128 slicktop, former 128 slicktop with N54T swap
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      03-05-2019, 02:02 PM   #9
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixracer View Post
1. N51 or N52 Engine?
n52 w/ 3 stage IM
2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
AA headers/ stock mid/AA axle back
3. Who is your tune from?
AA
4. How long have you had them installed?
1.5 years
5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
No
What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved.


I enjoy reving it out, no issues here
Nice and thanks for the info. I bet the car feels great!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
MattF407
Enlisted Member
United_States
39
Rep
44
Posts

Drives: 2013 Mineral Grey 128i
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

I'll fill out one of those templates after work for my N51 but wanted to share some of my "progress" and research.

While I am not well versed on the functionality, a few others have mentioned that msv80.1 (what our N51 128s are running) is diff from msv80 to satisfy SULEV emissions reqs. The biggest diff in additional equipment is the secondary air pump. I have removed mine, a relay, put a block off in place, and had BPC code out the error. My idle issue still persists.

After some more research on MSV80.1 specifically I saw a thread where someone (I think hass?) was of the opinion running a N52 MSV80 coded to work with the N51 engine would be the only way to truly eliminate the emissions systems functions from 80.1. Do I know this is the root cause of my idle issue? No, but like many others I've changed out parts and sensors that could be the culprit, relearned end stops for vanos, and reset adaptations numerous times.

Cheers and thanks for your effort!
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      03-05-2019, 03:57 PM   #11
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattF407 View Post
I'll fill out one of those templates after work for my N51 but wanted to share some of my "progress" and research.

While I am not well versed on the functionality, a few others have mentioned that msv80.1 (what our N51 128s are running) is diff from msv80 to satisfy SULEV emissions reqs. The biggest diff in additional equipment is the secondary air pump. I have removed mine, a relay, put a block off in place, and had BPC code out the error. My idle issue still persists.

After some more research on MSV80.1 specifically I saw a thread where someone (I think hass?) was of the opinion running a N52 MSV80 coded to work with the N51 engine would be the only way to truly eliminate the emissions systems functions from 80.1. Do I know this is the root cause of my idle issue? No, but like many others I've changed out parts and sensors that could be the culprit, relearned end stops for vanos, and reset adaptations numerous times.

Cheers and thanks for your effort!
Cool. I just thought if we could gather enough data, we might start to see a reoccurring piece of the puzzle start to emerge.

It does seem to keep coming back to the emission differences between the two platforms.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2019, 07:32 PM   #12
MattF407
Enlisted Member
United_States
39
Rep
44
Posts

Drives: 2013 Mineral Grey 128i
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Rmtt, apologies if it came across that I was not supportive of your goals with this thread. I like your approach, and hope it helps point us N51ers in the right direction.

1. N51 or N52 Engine?
N51 - w/S.A.P. Delete

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
SS Headers, SS straight pipes, SS muffler

3. Who is your tune from?
BPC

4. How long have you had them installed?
About 1 year

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
Yes, i experience 2 states of rough idling. 1) Decent, little to no fluctuation at most about 200 rpm (from 500-700). 2) Mild, strong fluctuations with about a 500-700 rpm fluctuation (from 300-~1000+). The second is reminiscent of the car trying to kill.
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      03-05-2019, 08:07 PM   #13
rowsdower
Captain
rowsdower's Avatar
641
Rep
695
Posts

Drives: 2011 128i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for pulling this thread together. There does seem to be a theme. BPC seems confident when I've spoken to them on multiple occasions that this is a hardware issue of some kind, and that their N51 tune should and will run and idle normally if there are no hardware problems. They did not offer a tune solution when I've spoken to them, but were helpful in trying to narrow down possible hardware issues.

1. N51 or N52 Engine?
N51 with SAP intact

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
AA headers, otherwise stock exhaust and intake

3. Who is your tune from?
BPC

4. How long have you had them installed?
14 months

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
Yes, I still have the idle issue after trying many possible fixes (well documented in other threads, I won't elaborate here). Sometimes it's absolutely fine, other times it's nearly undriveable. Sometimes at the track I'll get a big hit of power when I give it the slightest hint of throttle coming out of a corner. Other times it's 100% linear and smooth. Sometimes it stalls when I shift to neutral rolling to a stop.
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      03-06-2019, 05:48 AM   #14
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattF407 View Post
Rmtt, apologies if it came across that I was not supportive of your goals with this thread. I like your approach, and hope it helps point us N51ers in the right direction.

1. N51 or N52 Engine?
N51 - w/S.A.P. Delete

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
SS Headers, SS straight pipes, SS muffler

3. Who is your tune from?
BPC

4. How long have you had them installed?
About 1 year

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
Yes, i experience 2 states of rough idling. 1) Decent, little to no fluctuation at most about 200 rpm (from 500-700). 2) Mild, strong fluctuations with about a 500-700 rpm fluctuation (from 300-~1000+). The second is reminiscent of the car trying to kill.

No apology needed. I didn't take it that way at all. In fact I started this thread probably because I was scared of what would happen when I installed my headers.

But after reading various posts and seeing all the things that people have tried, I figured a thread like this would be good to consolidate everyone's experiences in one place where we could all benefit from it.

The only thing I wish I did different was when I asked about tune, was ask to specify if it was "mail-order" or at an actual shop on a dyno.

I know that BPC is close to many people, and I know that AA has their shops all over with their licensed guys.

So unless the mail-order tunes are being loaded, data-logged, and then returned for adjustment...it's hard to quantify. I know with tuning on my Corvettes over the years using HP Tuners, it would always take at least 3 runs on the dyno with some adjustments made to dial it in.
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2019, 01:06 PM   #15
smeard
First Lieutenant
smeard's Avatar
136
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW 128i  [0.00]
getting headers on soon and will be tuned by AA dealer in LA, will report back. However, my car currently dips to 500 rpm occasionally and i dont even have headers on??
__________________
Commuter- F10 528i N20 8AT Jatoba Black
Show- F10 550i M sport 8AT Alpine White: Airrex Bags, 20" Forgestar F14s, Meisterschaft Catback
Around town- E60 528i N52, 6AT, Monaco Blue
Weekend - 1997 BMW Z3 M52, 5spd, Dunkelgrun: 230k mi, Intrax Springs on Bilsteins, Style 68s staggered
AutoX/track - 2012 F30 N20, 6MT BSM
Appreciate 0
      04-09-2019, 03:58 AM   #16
Nafy
Lieutenant
Nafy's Avatar
49
Rep
431
Posts

Drives: 11 328i sedan
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

1. N51 or N52 Engine? N52, 2011 328i

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
Ceramic coated SuperSprint headers

3. Who is your tune from? BPC

4. How long have you had them installed? 1.5 years

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? Still have rough idle, also o2 sensor codes 002C39, 002C3A

Anyone checked their fault codes?
__________________
328i E90 LCI, 6MT, CDV Del, Msport front, Z4M heated steering, ZHP knob, PSS, XIce3, Bellof led angel & fogs, Ohlins R&T, front swift, Alcon front bbk, Ferodo DS3000, Awron gauge, M3 driver seat, HRE FF15s, M3 Mirrors, coated SS headers, BPC tune, m3 f arms

NA Inline 6, RWD, 6-speed manual, Hydraulic Steering, 4 door sedan! No lsd tho...
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      01-22-2020, 10:21 AM   #17
markslc1
Lieutenant
176
Rep
536
Posts

Drives: 2011 1M, 14 X5 x35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Mill Creek, WA

iTrader: (1)

Just installed the AA headers and am about ready to load the AA tune. Fingers crossed that I won't have worse idling issues than prior. Sometimes the car would die at a stoplight when the ac was on

Which tune revision should I be using for n52?
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2020, 11:33 AM   #18
spidertri
Lieutenant
spidertri's Avatar
United_States
395
Rep
461
Posts

Drives: 11 128i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rock Hill, SC

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW 128i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowsdower View Post
Thanks for pulling this thread together. There does seem to be a theme. BPC seems confident when I've spoken to them on multiple occasions that this is a hardware issue of some kind, and that their N51 tune should and will run and idle normally if there are no hardware problems. They did not offer a tune solution when I've spoken to them, but were helpful in trying to narrow down possible hardware issues.

1. N51 or N52 Engine?
N51 with SAP intact

2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ?
AA headers, otherwise stock exhaust and intake

3. Who is your tune from?
BPC

4. How long have you had them installed?
14 months

5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved?
Yes, I still have the idle issue after trying many possible fixes (well documented in other threads, I won't elaborate here). Sometimes it's absolutely fine, other times it's nearly undriveable. Sometimes at the track I'll get a big hit of power when I give it the slightest hint of throttle coming out of a corner. Other times it's 100% linear and smooth. Sometimes it stalls when I shift to neutral rolling to a stop.
I purchased Rowsdower's car back in July 2019. The car still has the headers and BPC tune installed. Only "power" change I've made is adding a Euro airbox.

I did two things which I believe helped seriously calm down the idle issue on this car. It is still present but it doesn't fluctuate as often or as much as it did.

1) The car stalled at a stop light one day and threw a shadow code for the small DISA. When I swapped it out the DISA flap was stuck in a 30 deg position and did not move at all. When actuated through INPA, the motor would spin but the flap was stuck.

2) I installed a set of Eldor coils (p/n 12138657273) they aren't listed as compatible with the N51/N52 yet but they install and work great in my car. Prior to this, I checked the coils that were in the car and they were the unmarked Delphi coils that others have reported to cause weird electrical issues.

My next step, will most likely be to pull the large DISA and see if it is operating correctly. I probably should have done that by now but the car has been behaving so I kind of forgot about the idle bounce.

I will say that the only time the car idle bounces now, is when I clutch-in roll to a stop. Even then it's not every time. It probably happens the most when going at slow speed in a parking lot and rolling into a spot.
__________________
11 128i slicktop
13 WK2
19 Alltrack S
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2020, 12:22 PM   #19
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by markslc1 View Post
Just installed the AA headers and am about ready to load the AA tune. Fingers crossed that I won't have worse idling issues than prior. Sometimes the car would die at a stoplight when the ac was on

Which tune revision should I be using for n52?
I'm honestly not sure with AA.

When I did my headers, I went with a tune from Bob at StageFP. I never had the first idle issue so I was fortunate.

Since then I have also added MILVS and had Bob tune for that...so far the car is a beast for what it is in perspective to what it used to be.
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 1
      01-22-2020, 08:31 PM   #20
b1aze
Just one more taste...
b1aze's Avatar
United_States
566
Rep
2,011
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i 6MT MSport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Uxbridge MA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crowtrobot View Post
Word of caution, with the PE, the exhaust is loud. Kind of raspy and there is a fair amount of drone around 2500rpm. My honest opinion: I'd spend the money elsewhere. I don't regret having it on the car, but if I were to do it over again, I'd have put the money into suspension or new wheels/tires. The PE alone makes the car sound awesome in my opinion, and the bump in power, while noticeable, isn't necessarily worth the hassle and money. Just my $0.02.
Thank you SO much for this feedback. I’ve been teetering on the idea of headers soon and that is the LAST thing I want to happen. I think I take the sound of the BMWPE for granted because I can’t hear it that much in the cabin but with the windows down or a drive by and it sounds excellent.

Have you considered a secondary cat delete for a smidge more volume/tone but not TOO much?
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2020, 05:11 AM   #21
Rmtt
Colonel
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
8206
Rep
2,250
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i, 2008 LS3 C6
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (3)

From my personal experience in terms of loudness and drone.

1. Stock system

2. AA Headers with stock secondaries and stock exhaust - Slightly louder and hard to tell it has headers from just sound. Tame

3. AA Headers with stock secondaries and MagnaFlow Catback - What I have and I think it's perfect. MagnaFlow also includes its own resonator. Sounds kind of like my old E46 M3.

4. Stock exhaust with Muffler Delete - I had this for awhile, and it's actually louder than the option I have now listed above.
__________________
Everybody has a gameplan....until they get punched in the mouth.
Appreciate 2
      01-26-2020, 12:08 AM   #22
markslc1
Lieutenant
176
Rep
536
Posts

Drives: 2011 1M, 14 X5 x35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Mill Creek, WA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
From my personal experience in terms of loudness and drone.

1. Stock system

2. AA Headers with stock secondaries and stock exhaust - Slightly louder and hard to tell it has headers from just sound. Tame

3. AA Headers with stock secondaries and MagnaFlow Catback - What I have and I think it's perfect. MagnaFlow also includes its own resonator. Sounds kind of like my old E46 M3.

4. Stock exhaust with Muffler Delete - I had this for awhile, and it's actually louder than the option I have now listed above.
I've been stock. then added the PE, which is very nice. Now just added AA headers to the setup. I can say that this is a great setup now, even though others have stated it would drone (it doesn't). Under 4k rpm it is really no different. But after, all hell breaks loose. Only loud under throttle, and still super quiet at highway speeds. Really impressed. Sounds a lot like my S54, but a bit louder at WOT.

If you like hearing some bangs/pops on overrun, and screaming from 5-7k this is the setup. Straight up racecar!

Last edited by markslc1; 01-26-2020 at 11:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST