What's Next - Suspension

[nikica]

Hey guys I've had my 08 135i for a few years now and have always upgraded OEM parts once the original part started to fail.

First purchased the 1M front control arms. When installing I noticed I had an H&R swayer up front :]

Got rid of the run flats and went with some continental extreme cup sports next. Huge difference!

Last weekend I installed the Bilstein B14 kit w/ all new bushings because my OEM bushings were shot and starting to groan.

Car feels amazing but its still not as planted as I thought it would be? Should I upgrade the rear sway bar? New front sway bar links? Replace OEM sub frame bushings? New strut tower brace for front and rear (I would fabricate my own)?

[ShocknAwe]

Solid subframe bushings. Solid bushing/bearing rear toe arm. M3 rear guide rod. Good to go after that with the B14.

[nikica]

What do you think about spacers? I come from the offroad side of things and we don't like to use spacers because its usually a part that fails. But obviously our trucks are much heavier and take a much bigger beating...

Also when I take my car in to get aligned do I need to mention that I am running 1M/M3 arms so that they give me the extra negative camber? Or do I just have them set it to the e82 135i settings? Always been a bit confused by that. If I'm having them set it to the 1M settings does anyone have an alignment sheet of where I should be?

Thanks in advance

[dtla1]

Most "regular" alignment shops will try to align your car to the specification (range of specifications really) that the computer provides. I'm sure it's probably most regular stores policy to follow that.

Generally you'll want to ask them to give you as much camber as you can get for the front (which if I had to guess would be about 2*) with about 1/8th-1/16th (if they can) toe in.You really have to drive the car with different alignment settings and choose what you like most.

Ohh, and maybe get rid of the camber pin if you haven't already. Google to see what I'm talking about but it's essentially a little piece on the front strut mount that intends to make it easier for the factory to align. You can either drill it out, or some mounts had a piece screwed in, so you'll be able to screw it out (with like vise-grips or something)

[John_01]

Originally Posted by nikica

Car feels amazing but its still not as planted as I thought it would be? Should I upgrade the rear sway bar? New front sway bar links? Replace OEM sub frame bushings? New strut tower brace for front and rear (I would fabricate my own)?

First priority is the rear subframe bushings. You need to put something better, ideally Solid, M3 rubber etc.

If you are taking the rear subframe out, you can consider replace the rear sway as well. Probably a 15mm would be a good match with your 27mm H&R unless you are specifically setting up the car for Track time, and adding a LSD as well.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Most "regular" alignment shops will try to align your car to the specification (range of specifications really) that the computer provides. I'm sure it's probably most regular stores policy to follow that.

Generally you'll want to ask them to give you as much camber as you can get for the front (which if I had to guess would be about 2*) with about 1/8th-1/16th (if they can) toe in.You really have to drive the car with different alignment settings and choose what you like most.

Ohh, and maybe get rid of the camber pin if you haven't already. Google to see what I'm talking about but it's essentially a little piece on the front strut mount that intends to make it easier for the factory to align. You can either drill it out, or some mounts had a piece screwed in, so you'll be able to screw it out (with like vise-grips or something)

Cool! I know what you are talking about I remember seeing it when installed my coilers last weekend. I only have the pin on the driver side. Passenger side was missing already? Do you have an alignment sheet that I can maybe give to my shop to base off?

[nikica]

Originally Posted by John_01

First priority is the rear subframe bushings. You need to put something better, ideally Solid, M3 rubber etc.

If you are taking the rear subframe out, you can consider replace the rear sway as well. Probably a 15mm would be a good match with your 27mm H&R unless you are specifically setting up the car for Track time, and adding a LSD as well.

Do I need to remove the subframe completely to change out the bushings? I could have sworn I saw a video of someone replacing one at a time without complete removal?

Is the swaybar only removable if the subframe is removed? or can you squeeze it in with the subframe still intact?

[chris82]

Must do the RSFB to make the rear feel planted; I'd do M3 rubber or solid. This tightens up everything from your gear changes to straight line acceleration and turn in. the rear control arms will provide marginal gains in comparison but if you're doing RSFB, definitely throw in the guide rod and anything else that's tough to get to there since some of the labor will certainly overlap.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by nikica

Do I need to remove the subframe completely to change out the bushings? I could have sworn I saw a video of someone replacing one at a time without complete removal?

Is the swaybar only removable if the subframe is removed? or can you squeeze it in with the subframe still intact?

The rear ARB can be replaced by dropping the subframe a few inches. Here's a helpful abbreviated diy:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447013

Since your car has a rear sway, you shouldn't have to tap the holes for the end links and brackets.

Supposedly you can pull the old bushings out of the subframe and install 2 piece bushings by only dropping the subframe. Search and a good bit of advice will show up. I did the Whiteline inserts by dropping it.

[dtla1]

Yup, can install 2 piece rear subframe bushings without completely removing the subframe. Note, must be 2 piece! One piece like the M3 or Solid Aluminum will need to drop the subframe. I did the whiteline ones myself, a few threads out there on tips and tricks but essentially you'll be heating to melt the existing bushing and using the self weight of the car push to push the bushing out through a sleeve. I used a jack to push the subframe up, forcing the bsuhing down.

Here's an alignment sheet I think I downloaded from somewhere on this forum a long time ago. Good reference to start I think.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Yup, can install 2 piece rear subframe bushings without completely removing the subframe. Note, must be 2 piece! One piece like the M3 or Solid Aluminum will need to drop the subframe. I did the whiteline ones myself, a few threads out there on tips and tricks but essentially you'll be heating to melt the existing bushing and using the self weight of the car push to push the bushing out through a sleeve. I used a jack to push the subframe up, forcing the bsuhing down.

Here's an alignment sheet I think I downloaded from somewhere on this forum a long time ago. Good reference to start I think. Attachment 2020717

Yes! Thank you so much for the alignment sheet.

Is there any difference between the 2 piece and 1 piece bushings? Any recommendations on which one I should go with?


So it seems like my next move should be the subframe bushings. Are sway bay links worth it? Or should that be one of my last pieces? Also what about a much stronger fabricated rear and front strut brace?

[SayHack]

It depends what you want to do with your car.....I have somewhat a similar setup. running b14 coilovers, ///M control arms all around, but have the factory sway bars, along with many other eom suspension refreshers and I love mine as a daily driver. Im somewhat new to this setup, so still learning how much i can push but I am pretty much where i want to be for now without compromising much of comfort and i get to out handle most cars chasing me in the canyons including an e46 M3

Running Hankook v12s with -1.2 camber in the front and -1.5 in the back with toes maxed out to "recommended range" mainly due to me not in the mood for new tires every 10k miles

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by nikica

Yes! Thank you so much for the alignment sheet.

Is there any difference between the 2 piece and 1 piece bushings? Any recommendations on which one I should go with?


So it seems like my next move should be the subframe bushings. Are sway bay links worth it? Or should that be one of my last pieces? Also what about a much stronger fabricated rear and front strut brace?

2 Piece rear subframe bushings are mostly favorable because they are 3X easier to install yourself/cheaper to install if someone else is doing it for you.

Don't need sway bar end links. I have not tried any types of upgraded strut braces.


I just have two piece whiteline rear sub frame bushings, upgraded poly suspension mounts, poly engine mounts, tckline coilovers, tckline camber plates, M front control arms, hotchkis front anti roll bar. Also running 255/35/18 square.

Car is perfect for me now.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

2 Piece rear subframe bushings are mostly favorable because they are 3X easier to install yourself/cheaper to install if someone else is doing it for you.

Don't need sway bar end links. I have not tried any types of upgraded strut braces.


I just have two piece whiteline rear sub frame bushings, upgraded poly suspension mounts, poly engine mounts, tckline coilovers, tckline camber plates, M front control arms, hotchkis front anti roll bar. Also running 255/35/18 square.

Car is perfect for me now.

I don't mind doing the bushings with the 1 piece. I come from the offload community and I'm not afraid to replace bushings and suspension components. I have a ford ranger with a 5.0 and fully caged front to rear (tubed chassis). I've just never had a small car that I've started to upgrade and don't know whats the best route to go down.

as far as the square setup goes... Are you running the rear wheels on the front of your 135i also? Any rubbing?

[dtla1]

Yeah, as long as you're comfortable removing the whole rear subframe (or having someone else do it, then no reason not to do one piece other than a choice between what you actually want. People say the one piece aluminum bushings contribute to more NVH but I wouldn't be able to compare since I don't use them.

For my square tires, yes rear style 261s on the front, fits with my mods listed above plus a 10MM spacer using MPS4S tires.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Yeah, as long as you're comfortable removing the whole rear subframe (or having someone else do it, then no reason not to do one piece other than a choice between what you actually want. People say the one piece aluminum bushings contribute to more NVH but I wouldn't be able to compare since I don't use them.

For my square tires, yes rear style 261s on the front, fits with my mods listed above plus a 10MM spacer using MPS4S tires.

Yes from everything I'm reading I think I'm going to do the M3 bushings. seems like everyone who installed them loved them. But everyone who installed the aluminum ones also said they loved them and had no issues.

Damn you were still able to fit 10mm spacers? I have a brand new set of spacers from ECS for the front and rear. I think fronts are 12.5? and rears are 15? Might throw them on tomorrow and see how it is...

[dtla1]

M3 vs something like a 2 piece whiteline is also about an $80 difference (M3 more expensive), another reason why someone might go that route instead.

I think the 12.5MM spacers will work if you are on oe front wheels and tire sizes (prob if you have a size up tire as well). It's also common for people to trim down the connection between the fenders and the front bumper in the wheel well for extra clearance if necessary.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

M3 vs something like a 2 piece whiteline is also about an $80 difference (M3 more expensive), another reason why someone might go that route instead.

I think the 12.5MM spacers will work if you are on oe front wheels and tire sizes (prob if you have a size up tire as well). It's also common for people to trim down the connection between the fenders and the front bumper in the wheel well for extra clearance if necessary.

Yes I put 12.5mm on the front and it fits perfectly with my setup. No rubbing either! :]

[nikica]

Does anyone know if theres supposed to be any kind of gasket that sits on top of the top shock mount and under the strut tower for the front end??

Ive watched quite a few DIY's and videos and everyone just installs them with no gasket but it seems like there should be one?

[dtla1]

There's a paper (felt type) one stock. I assume it helps with metal on metal noise a little. You can install if you're worried about it. If you're installing camber plates it probably won't have much effect.

[nikica]

Originally Posted by dtla1

There's a paper (felt type) one stock. I assume it helps with metal on metal noise a little. You can install if you're worried about it. If you're installing camber plates it probably won't have much effect.

On my driver side front the felt came off when I pulled the old OEM suspension off. But in all the install videos I see no one puts new ones on or anything? I don't think they even offer it to be sold?

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by nikica

On my driver side front the felt came off when I pulled the old OEM suspension off. But in all the install videos I see no one puts new ones on or anything? I don't think they even offer it to be sold?

Part # 31306772226. But as you've noticed, most people decide not to install.