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      02-22-2020, 03:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ngilbe36 View Post
This is why they win consistently, while everyone else is catching up to the W10 they are making innovations to become even faster.
Yup, it must be very frustrating for teams like RB and Ferrari who are trying to catch up. Just when they think they are there, Merc pushes the envelope just a little bit further.

Speaking of Ferrari, I think they are deliberately sandbagging this year. No way they are behind teams like Renault, RP etc.
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      02-22-2020, 04:48 AM   #24
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Aleady banned for 2021, so whatever development goes into the tech will be short lived.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51584557
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      02-22-2020, 04:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Aleady banned for 2021, so whatever development goes into the tech will be short lived.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51584557
i want copy and paste the post on the pre-season topic..

Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
Ricciardo said something really nice and right yesterday..

he said something like, every team except Merc should ve come up with new ideas and great solutions for being the best.. but they re the ones that still working hard and pushing us to be faster.. looking things from other side of the coin and its a great judgement at least for me.. its really not a coincidence they re the best.. cause they re still the most hardworking team still..
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      02-22-2020, 06:01 AM   #26
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2021 rules contain a clause which says: "The alignment of the front wheels must only take place through a constant function of a rotational movement of a single steering wheel."

so imagine the same system that simply zeroes out the toe when the steering wheel is perfectly straight... and then you turn it more than a set amount, the toe returns. seems like an open door to easily loophole the 2021 rule unless i'm missing something.
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      02-22-2020, 09:25 AM   #27
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A good read and visual illustration of the benefits of negative camber....

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...egative-camber
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      02-22-2020, 10:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Aleady banned for 2021, so whatever development goes into the tech will be short lived.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51584557
It has been banned since last year already. Merc obviously knew this, also why they developed it with the keeping the FIA in the loop.
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      02-22-2020, 04:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
2021 rules contain a clause which says: "The alignment of the front wheels must only take place through a constant function of a rotational movement of a single steering wheel."

so imagine the same system that simply zeroes out the toe when the steering wheel is perfectly straight... and then you turn it more than a set amount, the toe returns. seems like an open door to easily loophole the 2021 rule unless i'm missing something.
actually not..
cause whatever geometry you have on front suspension, it does vary on each steering angle.. actually even without steering angle things like bump steer.. bump steer is minimal even on normal cars but its still a factor.. things like variable ride height on different steering angles is a part of daily F1 suspension geometry nowadays and if i remember it right thanks to Merc again..

for your question.. we ve seen at least i did especially on qualies that Hamilton like to cool off the rears a bit and keep the blankets on fronts.. and with this in mind.. this is my point of view.. initial idea was banning the tire blankets for 2021.. recently FIA changed its mind and letting teams keep the tire blankets for another season.. last year it should be 90c the max temp that FIA permits teams to warm the tires.. this year it is 80c.. the idea was reducing it dramatically to 0 next year.. it changed again.. teams will use blankets after Pirelli insists..

for toe part.. the baseline of toe adjustment for free flow on the straights is not 0 toe back and front.. a bit toe out in front and toe in on the back.. basic chassis setup on karting actually this is and is the same for motorsports as long as you dont aim for something else.. letting the tires flow freely and with some stability on the back.. keeping the rears stable is ultimate goal in F1 thanks to impulsive torque graph.. cause when you think how fast they throw the cars into corners in F1, toe in or close to 0 in front needs an additional force/time to cross center at the initial part when you steer the front tires..

i believe.. there is no link i can paste to support second my idea.. Merc's initial thought was adding or lets say keeping the toe out probably more than you need (or keeping the excessive toe out) on the straight for scrubbing the front tires to put them some heat + additional pointy front end on slower corners since its pretty easy to put in heat in rears..
this part is more complex cause race cars setup for different corners can be adjusted from caster etc. and you dont hear that much but from ackerman as well.. extreme ackerman setups can be seen in Monaco.. its a different topic so no need to talk about it at this point.. but there are many variables to set the car right for the corners or lets say most part of corners on a track.. so the idea was giving an option to the driver to scrub more or less the front tires.. until here im sure you can find articles supporting the idea on internet..

additional part.. when you think of fighter jets, their aerodynamics are not perfect for adding agility to their flight and maneuver capabilities.. so they re setup'ed a bit unstable for sharp moves in air but keeping it under control with computers for preventing to fall basically or lose control.. so with this in mind and the huge effect of aerodynamics in F1.. W10 was a highly grippy car and seems from the test W11 is even better in this case.. so you have body that creates great downforce yet already and it gives you bigger room to upset the car or edgy car for faster response at the initial part of corners for carrying more speed in without losing control from mechanical grip setup you can play with.. i believe Merc's idea was similar.. extreme toe out, can give you edgy front end as long as you can keep it under control on the back or on all 4 wheels more likely (assuming the rest of the setup is exactly the same).. but extreme toe out can reduce your top speed + putting too much heat since you re scrubbing the tire wear not centrally.. with DAS Merc' can and will make this as an on/off thing..

for answering you question.. whatever suspension setup you have in the front, you have one or more stable connections to the tires.. and stable other joints before connecting to the wheel.. so despite how many times you steer the front tires you ll get the exact same movement.. to change this, you need additional force to change it/flex it which is already banned for many years or need a different axis that changes the system that was the loophole..

think of an arm connected to a shoulder, and weird angles that no human being can do without breaking the bones or joints.. but if you could have another option that changes the axis of the shoulder and no harm to your muscles then your shoulder's max angles or facing different angles d be possible.. its the same principle..
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      02-23-2020, 10:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
i believe.. there is no link i can paste to support second my idea.. Merc's initial thought was adding or lets say keeping the toe out probably more than you need (or keeping the excessive toe out) on the straight for scrubbing the front tires to put them some heat + additional pointy front end on slower corners since its pretty easy to put in heat in rears..
thats an interesting point. they may have intended to give a way to bring the tires up to temp quicker, but stumbled on a way to reduce drag on the straights (among other benefits). i wonder which benefit would be exercised more frequently and become more beneficial.
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      02-23-2020, 11:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
thats an interesting point. they may have intended to give a way to bring the tires up to temp quicker, but stumbled on a way to reduce drag on the straights (among other benefits). i wonder which benefit would be exercised more frequently and become more beneficial.
yeah.. another different thing than last year that both Ham and Bot was falling into going side ways out of the chicane pretty easily.. and seems like less steering angle they re using.. need a side to side comparison video for this.. a slow exit corner but not much correction needed on mid and fast corner exits.. easy to have this by get on the power fast or by edgy frontend.. and in addition Merc's were able to get on the power quite early.. more than last year.. so i believe pretty planted rear W11 has but preventing the car falling into understeer and to balance out they re using extra-ordinary front suspension geometry.. but they dont need high degree of toe out on the straights as the basic solution.. causing to reduce speed, too much scrubbing on front tires.. DAS can be a system to eliminate this, and with side benefit it gives chance to put heat in front tires with this more edgy frontend setup they ll use this year..

so DAS was a necessity for keeping things right on the straights in my opinion.. for clear answer we need to understand which position of steering is the default one by watching Ham and Bot while they re putting more lap in next week.. yummy..
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      02-25-2020, 11:39 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Thank you my friend,I know I can always rely on you
I'm not sure about the 'sharks teeth' windscreen.
Did some research . "DAS" is already tested by Lotus-Renault back in 2011 => https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...m_medium=web2x
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      02-25-2020, 12:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Did some research . "DAS" is already tested by Lotus-Renault back in 2011 => https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...m_medium=web2x
Petrov's steering wheel is like on an elastic! back and front but yes well done my friend, it will put a damper on a few Merc fans who are thinking the silvers will be walking it again with 'DAS' no.2
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      02-25-2020, 03:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Did some research . "DAS" is already tested by Lotus-Renault back in 2011 => https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...m_medium=web2x
I'm pretty sure that mod was declared illegal very quickly...
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      02-25-2020, 03:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I'm pretty sure that mod was declared illegal very quickly...
Yeah . It looked like a nightmare
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      02-29-2020, 06:56 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I'm pretty sure that mod was declared illegal very quickly...
If that mod was declared illegal then what if teams protest against the Merc one even if ok'd by the federation.
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      02-29-2020, 11:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Did some research . "DAS" is already tested by Lotus-Renault back in 2011 => https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...m_medium=web2x
I'm pretty sure that mod was declared illegal very quickly...
If that mod was declared illegal then what if teams protest against the Merc one even if ok'd by the federation.
You need to watch the video. We're having some fun.
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      02-29-2020, 11:24 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
You need to watch the video. We're having some fun.
Lol I watched it and was laughing too.. looked like Columbo's car steering but realistic too.
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      02-29-2020, 11:28 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
You need to watch the video. We're having some fun.
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