BMW M1 / BMW 1M test mule spied in production testing form!!!

[LeoHammer]

One of the most amazing track monsters of all time is a Turbo car... the Ferrari F40, which rolled out of the factory in 1987. So why do some of you think that the best engineers within BMW can't develop an amazing racy turbo engine in 2012? its the M division after all, once this M1/1M is released we will soon forget about all N/A vs turbo arguments and all true 1addicts that can't afford the M version will have envious wet dreams... That's what happened to me when after modifying the crap out of my Z4 back in 2005ish, BMW unveiled the Z4M.

[Migsboyfresh]

im sorry but i highly doubt bmw would be so stupid as to come out with a 1M... the 135i beats the m3 stock for stock already. they wouldnt ruin their m3 client base. this is obviously testing for the future 135i with the twinscroll single turbo that will be out in a year or two. if you think about it, engine-wise, if a 1m ever came out, it would absolutely destroy m3s and that logically doesnt make sense. and that is what really grinds my gears..diane?

[Migsboyfresh]

^^ These are BMW M1's lol if the 1 series m is ever release (doubtful) it will not be called the m1. il bet my 135i on that.

[Alpin3_F30]

Originally Posted by 135I1

^^ These are BMW M1's lol if the 1 series m is ever release (doubtful) it will not be called the m1. il bet my 135i on that.

Cant called it 1M if there is really M1 out there, its the same thing...Soooo...it'll be called the 135M?

[LeoHammer]

Originally Posted by 135I1

im sorry but i highly doubt bmw would be so stupid as to come out with a 1M... the 135i beats the m3 stock for stock already. they wouldnt ruin their m3 client base. this is obviously testing for the future 135i with the twinscroll single turbo that will be out in a year or two. if you think about it, engine-wise, if a 1m ever came out, it would absolutely destroy m3s and that logically doesnt make sense. and that is what really grinds my gears..diane?

I don't think a stock 135i can beat an M3... and if you're reasoning was correct, BMW would have never made the M3 since it destroys the M5 at the track. I don't see why the 1M can't be as quick as the current M3... the current M3 has many things that buyers would rather have over the 1M, one of them being that high revving V8.
In addition, back when the Z4M was released, BMW discontinued the e46 M3 for about 2 years until the next gen e92 came out. So perhaps the 1M will fill the gap between the current and next gen M3, if this is the case than the 1M/M1 could very will be faster than the M3, further evidence of this is also the projected release of the next gen 1 series in 2014, which would mean that the M1 will only last for that 2 years gap, just as long as the Z4M.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by 135I1

im sorry but i highly doubt bmw would be so stupid as to come out with a 1M... the 135i beats the m3 stock for stock already. they wouldnt ruin their m3 client base. this is obviously testing for the future 135i with the twinscroll single turbo that will be out in a year or two. if you think about it, engine-wise, if a 1m ever came out, it would absolutely destroy m3s and that logically doesnt make sense. and that is what really grinds my gears..diane?

Stock for stock? No way--the M3 is actually much faster in a straight line than a stock 135....if you add mods the 135 can catch up, but not stock...

The 135 gives you a lot of bang for the buck so to speak--but it is not anywhere near on the level of an M3. I don't think the highly modified 135/335's out there are either....

Spend some significant time in an M3, or M coupe like I have this week. You will see that there is a different purpose to an ///M car....it is something that you can see, feel, hear, etc....

Additionally, Scott has stated that the power of the M1 will be kept in check so that the toes of the M3 will not be tread upon...so roughly 360 BHP....that will not destroy an M3--it sounds to me like it will make for an interesting conversation and driver's race--which is what BMW wants to create anyway...

And for the record, there are several items in the test mule spy shots that would make your theory of this being an F20 1 series test mule simply ridiculous....like the LSD....the cross drilled rotors....the widened air vents for the brakes....the widened fenders.....there is no chance in hell this is the next generation 1 series test mule....

Finally, Scott has verified that the car will indeed be called the M1. Looks like you lost your 135!

[Robert]

Originally Posted by 135I1

^^ These are BMW M1's lol if the 1 series m is ever release (doubtful) it will not be called the m1. il bet my 135i on that.

Oh please dont open this again. There's numerous dedicated threads on this. We have been talking about it since 2007.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by bradford

If only there was a way to engage the next gear, thus returning the motor to the meat of the powerband...like...say...upshifting.

You could say that about any car. Even diesels. For example, having to shift at 4k rpm because going to 5k returns only negligible power gain is the antithesis of what M cars have traditionally provided.


F40 was epic for its power, when the boost came on (strong). That didn't mean it was a better driver's car than with a highly tuned NA motor.
Recall from Evo Magazine's list of 100 top drivers cars:
12. Ferrari F40
8. Ferrari F50

Of their top 10 cars, only 1 was turbocharged. And the fact that Ferrari has for so long excluded turbocharging in their modern lineup is quite telling as well. The sharpest driving tools in Porsche's 911 lineup, the GT3's, are likewise NA; the GT2 has been noted for laggy response.
As for the GT-R, nobody complains except that maybe the sound is too muted. The transmission and grippy AWD combined with impeccable body control overshadow the engine, according to tests. It's hardly a great drivers car due to the engine, though with all that mass, turbocharging was the ideal solution.

I'm not saying the new M-tuned turbo won't be exciting. Nor am I saying that NA guarantees more involvement. But history has shown the most electric driving experiences for a driver's car come from NA power delivery. For this, you generally need high compression which is normally at odds with turbocharging, if you want to maintain reliability.

[Advevo]

guibo fantastic write up.

You can try every turbo you want. But midcorner off throttle and on throttle is laggy with every turbo even ferrari or porsche turbo doesn t matter. That spoils my fun in driving. I would not spend premium money on such car. Turbo s are nice in diesel and daily drives. Cars for fun needs to be NA great throttle response and give emotion.

I am a big ///M enthusiast but not turbo s if the M1 is turbo i am 100% not buying it. Car would give me zero driving emotion. I rather pay a lot more and buy myself a GT3. That s a car which give you throttle response that s a car which give emotion. Bmw could build one out of a 1 series. But the bmw ag board would proberly not aprove because it is not green enough.

I had it with bmw green agenda. It s about time they bring a new 6 cil high rpm///M engine with 8500 rpm NA.

[oztiks]

All I hope for is that when SCOTT said they will make it so it does not step into M3 territory..is that he meant future M3'S. While the M3 is an impressive machine, it's numbers are not impressive enough compared to much cheaper machines. M3 should always be respected and feared and it seems to be losing that. I would expect nothing less for the new 1M/M1 than to match or surpass the present M3, and make the future M3 500hp it's what it deserves.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by billspreston

The M1 will have a twin turbo "S"N55 M tuned motor. Nobody has any idea what this engine will feel like. Have a little faith in M that they will deliver a more "track-friendly" motor in these new cars. I assure you they aren't just bolting some snails on there and calling it a day. The only TT M we've seen so far are the X5 & X6 and those engines have a much different purpose. The people building these cars aren't stupid and BMW is one of the best at building performance motors, especially the boys at M. I don't expect this to change with the onset of turbo motors in their lineup.

Do people complain about the effect turbos have on a Nissan GT-R at the track? What about Evos and Sti? What about Porsche or the older turbo Ferraris? Please guys, N/A is not the end all be all!

Originally Posted by bradford

OK. But you posted:



That's why I said "Why would you do that?"

Late at night - and I was interrupted mid sentence by my wife. I meant a square setup will eliminate understeer.

Originally Posted by 135I1

im sorry but i highly doubt bmw would be so stupid as to come out with a 1M... the 135i beats the m3 stock for stock already. they wouldnt ruin their m3 client base. this is obviously testing for the future 135i with the twinscroll single turbo that will be out in a year or two. if you think about it, engine-wise, if a 1m ever came out, it would absolutely destroy m3s and that logically doesnt make sense. and that is what really grinds my gears..diane?

Stock for stock, M3 is faster to 100km, and faster on track. There was a video on youtube sometime ago. IIRC, the 135i was ahead initially, but overtaken by the M3 once the M gets up the rev.

[footie]

Originally Posted by oztiks

All I hope for is that when SCOTT said they will make it so it does not step into M3 territory..is that he meant future M3'S. While the M3 is an impressive machine, it's numbers are not impressive enough compared to much cheaper machines. M3 should always be respected and feared and it seems to be losing that. I would expect nothing less for the new 1M/M1 than to match or surpass the present M3, and make the future M3 500hp it's what it deserves.

I am not saying that the next M3 couldn't have 500hp but I personally doubt it. Best guess will be somewhere between 450hp and 480hp top whack which will still keep it ahead of the competition.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I had it with bmw green agenda. It s about time they bring a new 6 cil high rpm///M engine with 8500 rpm NA.

The reason for that agenda though, is due to stricter fuel economy requirements from the European Union and US Federal Govt that manufacturers will have to meet. I'm sure BMW would love to keep building high revving NA engines, but they would have a much harder time meeting the requirements.

I believe low volume manufacturers like Porsche are initially exempt, but they will eventually have to comply with the stricter requirements. I hate to say it, but you will eventually have to deal with the fact that high revving NA engines will become few and far between. I'm not happy about it either, but that's the way it will be unless new technologies can improve mileage and decrease emissions.

[Advevo]

ferrari porsche and lambo etc can close factories when they can t make NA engines anymore. That means lots of unemployment less taxes income for goverments. I am in the market for a GT3 but i buy only because of the NA engine. If it was turbo not one hair on my body is considering a porsche then. High rev is emotion and turbo is nice for daily.

Choices. Goverments have big financial problems so if the make it harder for car factories it get s even worse. Less tax income.

I would never spend lots of money on turbo lambo ferrari porsche etc. NA engine make them special and worthy to buy. Same goes for ///M. A turbo car i buy myself from bmw AG. If i want something special i buy from ///M. But a turbo engine is no Motorsports engine no piece of art and not worth paying premium for.

[BimmerMat135]

This detail has been overlooked, well I think. If we consider that the current N55 has 300hp@5800rpm it's will be interesting to see where the 360hp of the M1 engine will be developped ????rpm. If it's still at around 5800rpm I guess we might expect something like 480nm? If we keep in mind that this engine will be the base for the F30 M3 and that we might expect something like 450-480hp they might go for high reeving version and get something like 550nm for the F30M3. These of course are pure speculation. Does anyone have differents theory about this?

[billspreston]

I laugh at all the turbo hating because a.) all (or the great majority) of the M cars in the near future will be turbo and b.) when these cars come out all the people that bashed the turbo will end up buying them anyway likely raving about the driving experience.

Yeah if I was spending 150k+ on a Lambo, Ferrari, etc. I would probably pick an N/A engine as well, but that's apples to oranges really.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The 135 gives you a lot of bang for the buck so to speak--but it is not anywhere near on the level of an M3. I don't think the highly modified 135/335's out there are either....

Performance wise? A properly modded 135i will smoke a stock M3.

[oztiks]

They can put a lawn mower engine in there, as long as it's a proper M car and can run 0 to 60 in 4.5 or less and quarter in 12.7 or less. Seems to be the minimum nowadays for a decent sports car.

[auggiem3]

I'm pumped if this is the new 1M but I remember the first F10 M5 spec pics and, even going back to 2006 with the first mule e90 M3 pics (prior to the official acknowledgement of a 4dr m3 return) the defining characteristic on the camouflaged cars was a quad exhaust setup.

I'd assume that exhaust contributes to motor efficiency and the undercarriage design, so why would they run a dual tip single exhaust in the early iterations? If this is the new M, I'm guessing the pics indicate a break from recent tradition back to a less aggressive single (135-esq) exhaust setup.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by bradford

Performance wise? A properly modded 135i will smoke a stock M3.

Not on a track it won't.

[LeoHammer]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Not on a track it won't.

Yes it could...if properly modded... this includes stripping out excessive weight, more power, upgraded suspension, tires, LSD, etc, etc.

[auggiem3]

Ok, so do the same to an M3 and what happens? yup.

Originally Posted by LeoHammer

Yes it could...if properly modded... this includes stripping out excessive weight, more power, upgraded suspension, tires, LSD, etc, etc.