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      07-19-2020, 01:53 AM   #1
Reppunkamui
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RSFB

I was recommended to have a look into replacing these bushings for my 2010 N54 135i MSport. I have trawled through many helpful threads detailing how to DIY it and the improvement.

M3 bushings seem to be the original preference by most, but the "top-down" installation of the front bushing seems like a real pain... Polyurethane bushings also (Powerflex/Whiteline) seem like a popular choice which is easier to install. But aluminium bushings (Turner) appears to be what people who have already upgraded their bushings are aiming for in their next upgrade.

Anyway, I am a little overloaded with information at this point. I just wanted to get a recommendation on this and whether I should just go straight to Aluminium... since the install does not sound like something I want to do multiple times. Or is the M3 or polyurethane more practical, or worthwhile?

MSport suspension, planning M3 control arms for front, planning PS4S for tyres. MHD Stage 2+ 93 tune with FBO plus inlets. Sleeper project car for weekends and occasional trackday.

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      07-19-2020, 07:00 AM   #2
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Depends on your use/goals for the car.

OEM Enthusiast - If you want it to stay OEM/BMW only get the M3 bushes and pay the extra for install or DIY if you have the skills.

Daily Driver/light AutoX use - I DD mine so ride comfort was important. I did the inserts b/c it was relatively easy but if I did it again I'd get the 2-piece replacements RSFB (like the Whiteline KDT917 Subframe Mount Bushings).

Track Car (choosing performance over comfort) - the all aluminum version will have the least play in the system. You'll gain performance, give up a bit of ride comfort due to the solid nature of the mounts.
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      07-20-2020, 10:45 AM   #3
Reppunkamui
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Thanks, I think I'll just get the polyurethane bushings. The M3 bushing install is just too much of a turnoff for DIY...

Starting to wonder whether solid aluminium bushings might affect the suspension's longevity.
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      07-20-2020, 12:11 PM   #4
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if you are DIY'ing, with realistic DIY equipment (not a heavy car person DIY garage with a press and lots of space to leave the car in the air, maybe a second set of hands etc), I think 2 piece is the way to go.

Many people with the Aluminum ones have said that they don't really add any NVH at all, although there isn't any long term notes on suspension longevity, but I don't think they would effect that either. But you would need to press them in from the top, which means full subframe removal, etc. Like I said, if you don't have a press or enough area/time to go this far, 2 piece should be the happy medium.

Honestly, I've had the 2 piece whiteline RSFB in for a a few years. I could have just forgotten what the car felt like before the RSFB replacement, but I felt that the rear arm replacement with the M arms (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-trw-part...3322283547kt4/ ) did a lot to help settle the rear jumpiness even more than the RSFB replacement, although I guess it could just be the combo of the two.
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      07-21-2020, 06:20 AM   #5
Reppunkamui
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The Aluminium bushings I have seen seem to be pressed from the bottom like stock. It's only the M3 front bushing that seems to need to be pushed from the top. I could be wrong...
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      07-21-2020, 11:55 AM   #6
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As someone who has done both:

M3 bush in my 1er. Fantastic improvement. Very little change in NVH. Yes, it is some work to change them. You will need the special tools, will make it much easier.

Inserts in my E90, installed in about 30 mins, noticeably not quite as good as the full M3 bushings, and they transfer more noise to the cabin.
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      07-21-2020, 12:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
... noticeably not quite as good ...
Interesting! I can see it though - the inserts are a great idea on paper but in real life where there are compression, tension, shear forces and things moving and flexing, I see potential for problems and inconsistent results i.e. flexy one direction and solid the other.

I did the M3 bushings (shop did it) and though it was a while ago I remember it as being clearly helpful for the rubber band like back end thing around corners (it eliminated it), and then for NVH I don't recall noticing any change at all.
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      07-21-2020, 09:38 PM   #8
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There is another option for bushings

https://www.condorspeedshop.com/coll...me-bushing-kit
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      07-22-2020, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
There is another option for bushings

https://www.condorspeedshop.com/coll...me-bushing-kit
That's a pretty sweet option!!
Seeing products like that also revive the desire for me to get a house and build myself a little machine shop though. I don't remember what the diamater of the Subframe bushings are, but rounding up to 3, a 1 foot length of solid UHMW rod is only $20. If only I had a damn lathe to play around with.
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      07-22-2020, 03:54 PM   #10
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There is also the genuine BMW Motorsport version.


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...-gpn-subframe/
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      07-22-2020, 05:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
There is also the genuine BMW Motorsport version.


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...-gpn-subframe/
Quite a 'sspensive part.
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      07-22-2020, 06:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
Quite a 'sspensive part.
That's cause it's an ///M part. $800.00 AAUGH!

But some people say they're pretty good.

Wish I would've got them or something better than I did when I had my 1er.

Got the Whiteline inserts instead and wasn't very happy with them.
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      07-23-2020, 11:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
There is also the genuine BMW Motorsport version.


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...-gpn-subframe/
Quite a 'sspensive part.
Gotta pay to play.
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      07-24-2020, 12:33 PM   #14
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Go solid, whether it's aluminum or delrin. I tried poly inserts, full poly and, finally, solid.

Poly inserts: Total waste of time. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to convince themselves its an upgrade.
Poly bushing: Gets rid of 80-90% of the unwanted subframe movement, cheap, and will be enough for most folks
Delrin/Solid/Alum.: No added NVH, 100% fixes unwanted subframe movement, and makes the car ride so much better because the rear shocks aren't squirming around as much.

Those Condor Speed ones posted above are a steal of a deal, and having used their products extensively, I bet they will do the trick.
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      07-28-2020, 12:46 PM   #15
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What the difference between poly inserts and poly bushing? I want to get rid of rear end rubber band feeling also.

Nevermind. Feel free to correct me.

I think I get it: inserts are the 2 piece (w/o dropping the subframe), poly and solid are pressed in (need to drop subframe)

Last edited by lemansblau135is; 07-28-2020 at 01:16 PM..
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      07-28-2020, 12:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemansblau135is View Post
What the difference between poly inserts and poly bushing? I want to get rid of rear end rubber band feeling also.
The inserts are just that - they are little plastic things formed to fill the "voids" in the rubber bushing to stop flexing. They are easier to install as you don't need to drop the subframe, but they are not a full bushing obviously and can break / crack over time.

The full bushing is a replacement of the facotry part that needs to be pressed out and the new bushing pressed / installed in.

Inserts: https://www.whiteline.com.au/product..._number=KDT918

Full Bushing: https://www.whiteline.com.au/product..._number=KDT917
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      07-28-2020, 01:19 PM   #17
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Thanks for the clarification
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      07-28-2020, 02:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemansblau135is View Post
What the difference between poly inserts and poly bushing? I want to get rid of rear end rubber band feeling also.

Nevermind. Feel free to correct me.

I think I get it: inserts are the 2 piece (w/o dropping the subframe), poly and solid are pressed in (need to drop subframe)
Almost! You can get 2 piece full bushings! The link I provided for the whitelines (KDT917) are full bushings but a 2 piece design so the install is easier (you can get away with lowering the subframe a little without a full drop to install them).
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