| 08-01-2012, 02:30 AM | #67 | |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Yes! Thanks Neil i agree, it might be helpful to take the advice of an actual claim adjuster, rather than someone who clearly didn't even sleep at a holiday inn last night......... |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 02:35 AM | #68 | |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Partially correct. In the US whether or not insurance follows the CAR or whether it follows the DRIVER is determined by state laws. Therefore, in some states, by jumping into a friends car, one is literally using the friends insurance, as the insurance follows the CAR. In other states, the insurance follows the DRIVER, so in those states , the driver would turn in a claim to his own insurance to take care of the owners vehicle. And then there's michigan...... |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 07:10 AM | #69 |
|
Private First Class
 
63
Rep 148
Posts |
I dont know what the laws are in other states but the advice I gave in my last post has helped many of my customers get favorable settlements here in NY.....
I dont think it's "poor" advice if it works.... Insurance companies are in business to make money....there not in business to pay out top dollar for every settlement... isnt that why every claim is considered a "negotiation"....in New York i have to negotiate the labor rate on almost every claim that I handle....why is it that ? Why does every company pay out different rates per hour ? How come if you negotiate a higher labor rate they call it an "adjustment" and it appears on the estimate as a lump sum dollar amount rather than an hourly rate? How come it doesn't carry over to the next claim? Why does the insurance company get to determine that the labor rate in New York should be $44 an hour instead of $50 or $60 an hour? Every adjuster and superviser that I've dealt with all have there own way of handling things....there is no one way to reach the bottom line.... Many of my customers were going to take the first offer made to them by the insurance when there car was totaled... after holding out a bit and playing "hardball" they received hundreds if not thousands more... I don't think it's poor advice...it's just not the advice that you would give....but then again you work for "them".... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 09:22 AM | #71 | |
|
Private First Class
18
Rep 173
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 09:50 AM | #72 | |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Im sorry that I don't have time to Retype my 1000 word rebuttal. First off. Let's explain a few reasons why your advice was bad. 1. Leaving your car at a tow yard during total loss negotiations only hurts the owner. Stuff gets stolen from cars all the time. Leaving the car there gives more time for this! the owner still owns the vehicle and still has to continue to pay their Payments on the vehicle. Many people feel like its a total so they don't have to worry, but YES one must keep making payments. Most insurance companies will move the vehicle to a facility where they are not being charged for storage. If the owner wants to refuse to allow them to move the vehicle to reduce the charges, then the insurance company doesn't have to pay those charges. In addition, the insurance company is NOT obligated to pay for the storage costs while a car is at a storage yard during a dispute. If a customer refuses to allow the vehicle to be moved, the insurance company will simply advise the owner that they are still the owner of the vehicle and that they are still responsible for their vehicle and all the charges that accrue! Every insurance policy I have seen states that the insurer will pay REASONABLE storage and towing charges. Letting your car sit in a tow yard while charges rack up in a dispute is clearly not a reasonable charge. I don't think it's wise to recommend ideas that could lead to someone having to pay hundreds of dollars in storage charges. And why? For " leverage" that either wasn't needed, or could result in the claim adjuster playing " hardball" back! |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 10:10 AM | #73 |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
In my estimation, total loss negotiations are very easy and minimal with most vehicles. Honda accord, ford fusions, BMW 3 series. These are cars that have high production numbers and typically the valuation that comes back is quite accurate about 80 percent of the time. That means no fight! Another 15 percent of claims may require some negotiation or additional time to determine why the initial value was wrong. Perhaps options or accessories were not correctly obtained,or the vehicle is unique In these cases typically a settlement is reached easily.
Glass, your advice can work in these situations, but in many situations, the owner simply needs to review the figures presented, understand that this is a negotiation, and present a cogent argument along with some comparable vehicles as support and likely they can get to a proper value. It is important that customers understand that there is some negotiation in the process , but it must be reasonable. Many people assume that the value offered is static and accept that. About 5 percent of these claims become contentious, and far less, probably well under one percent of the time is a serious dispute, resulting in either a suit or appraisal. A claim rep is not going to just throw out another 1-2k in value on a vehicle that is not justified in order to reduce storage costs of $25-50 per day! Glass, the value adjustments that you have seen in friends claims likely had very little to do with any assumed leverage and more likely along the lines of correcting options, trim level, or just may require more ACCURATE comps. The lower mileage the vehicle and the rarer the vehicle, the more difficult it is for a computerized valuation to be accurate. As an e30m3 owner that has has counseled hundreds of e30 m3 owners on the M3 SIG over the last 15 years, I have seen how values can be difficult to obtain when outliers like ratty rust buckets compatibles somehow get in the data and greatly affect the value because of small sample size. I am gonna head back to my desk and HELP some more people. I'll try and answer more questions and reduce dis/misinformation tonite. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 10:46 AM | #74 |
|
Private First Class
63
Rep 148
Posts |
Correct me if I'm wrong but once the adjuster puts a total loss sticker on the window( as soon as he deems it a total loss) it becomes illegal to touch even a screw on that vehicle....
the adjuster is suppose to inventory everything and write it down.... how could the owner then be responsible for stolen items when the vehicle is in someone else's possesion and it's been deemed a total loss ?..... the body shop or tow yard becomes responsible for any theft or loss at that point.... As far as storage goes i tried to follow the point that your trying to make but you even managed to confuse me....lol...i'm not that smart... What I do know is that if the insurance is paying storage they'd rather settle sooner than later.....ofcourse they'd want to move it to one of there facilities that doesn't charge storage.....it benefits them.... how does that benefit the insured ? insurance companies have made it an art form to confuse,mislead and blatantly lie to there insured.... im not trying to attack you in any way shape or form but you must have some idea of what i mean.... insurance companies regularly try to steer work here in the northeast....that goes against regulation 64...... Steering means having cars go to an insurance company "approved" bodyshops that work for less and even kick back a percentage on parts they buy... the tell you on the phone that if your car is driveable you "must" go to there drive in facility.... this is a blatant lie..... you can take your vehicle to the shop of your choice at any point.... thats just two examples.... I can come up with about 100 more..... If and insurace company can even save $100 on every claim that adds up to millions a year.... the adjusters I speak to all get raises based on there "numbers"....the higher they write the less of a raise they get.... the lower they write the higher the raise they get... How is this fair when an insured's vehicle is involved... This business has 2 sides to it.... one I love and one I don't... Repairing the vehicles and putting them on the road is the fun part.... dealing with insurance companies is not.... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 11:37 AM | #75 |
|
Lieutenant
 
69
Rep 420
Posts |
If you know of a 1M for sale, can you post the link to it here?
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725839 Thanks guys! Last edited by Blue55; 08-01-2012 at 11:48 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 07:16 PM | #76 | |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
they instead say.. it must have come in like that... i see cars with stolen after market wheels.. stereos.. etc while they have been parked at tow yard. sorry.. there are no raises due to numbers.... NEVER have i heard such a thing. perhaps you are dealing with independent adjusters? no idea. The only people that may get paid more due to their client's book of business are agents.. they do get paid based on the overall loss ratio of their ENTIRE book of business.. of course agent's don't control claim payments for the most part... so it's not like they can control this. as far as not attacking.. please.. I take it you work for a shop? how would you feel if I jumped on here and said body shops all RIP OFF customers and do SHODDY work ?  would you consider that to NOT be an attack? you have many blanket statements about the insurance industry. I respecftully request that you desist from doing so.. and in turn.. I'll not disparage what YOU do  I'll agree with you on the steering. I work for a company where there is a big emphasis on directing (read: steering if you want) customers toward " member" or " preferred" shops. from the company side.. one can say this is doing the customer a disservice by helping them avoid BAD shops. Personally.. it creates as many problems because then people say.. you TOLD me to use shop XYZ when a problem happens. of course the SAVINGS of any insurance company through these methods IS passed on to the CUSTOMER.. otherwise premiums would be higher than what they are. And I haven't met a lot of people who would say they pay too LITTLE for insurance. No one says that LOL are you the fellow with the shop that has saved the 1Ms? if so.. awesome... |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 07:17 PM | #77 |
|
Captain
59
Rep 630
Posts |
Glass and adjust, you both have valid PoVs.
Adjust, sadly, the insurance companies tend to screw the insured: "Like" OEM quality parts, using insurance company shops that repair to the company's spec, not the manufuacturer nor standard repair guidelines. I'll concour with Glass about the poor labor rate amount, too. Standard in our area is $100+ an hour for mechanical. Body shops have to pay their people, keep to EPA and other standards, while the insurance cos grind the snot out of the shops. But the insurance companies stiff the shops for .50¢ on the dollar. If forces a shop to find other ways to profit. Glass, there are tons of shops that do piss-poor work, order non-OEM parts and bill for OEM. They short cut and work to keep profitable by doing the minimum amount of work to rebuild and get the car back on the road. No one is an angel here. I admire Glass for his work to save our 1M beasties. Adjust, you know and work the "other side" and that is important too. But sadly I am inclined to perceive that the insurance cos want to scrape away every last dollar whether is is the premium or the payout. FWIW, the 1M is a limited car so the rat bastards like Geico can't shove "like quality parts" down our throats. Did I mention that insurance companies are notoriously slow in paying the shops? Die, lizard die!!! (because my wife hates when I say that at EVERY Geico spot: "Lizard, terminate prematurely!!!")
__________________
Matt Murray
I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. Last edited by mattm; 08-01-2012 at 07:40 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 07:21 PM | #78 | |
|
Captain
59
Rep 630
Posts |
Quote:
BTW, I do respect both of you and your posts and your excellent taste in cars.
__________________
Matt Murray
I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-01-2012, 07:34 PM | #79 |
|
Private First Class
63
Rep 148
Posts |
M3adjuster....you have a point......
I shouldt make blanket statements and I also am not trying to attack anyone... Sorry if it seemed that way..... This is not the place to vent about insurance companies....lol....I'm sure I can find a different forum for that..... I guess in general there are more bad body shops out there than good ones.....I see shit repair work come through my door all the time and that annoys me also...... We just have to except the fact that this industry has a lot of issues that need to be Fixed..... Andy |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 01:19 AM | #80 | |
|
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Sorry, that was a quick post. Not trying to say that insurance companies done make a profit...Of course insurance companies make a profit. In the US, health insurance companies make a ton of profit. Auto companies much less. Should there be more controls on insurance companies and profit in this country just like oil companies and probably banks as well? In my opinion, Probably so! But my point is still valid. Premiums would be higher certainly without insurance companies putting pressure on OEM manufacturers and repair shops to keep parts pricing lower. OEM parts are expensive in many cases. Without a healthy aftermarket, including insurance companies that spec these parts, then dealer parts would be much higher than they are now because they would have a monopoly. The same is true for labor rates. Look at dealer service department labor rates. Here in Dallas, Classic BMW charges $140.80 cents an hour for labor. People pay that For work performed by individuals that likely don't even have a college degree. It's not like that money is going to an attorney or CPA or some highly skilled professional. I'm not knocking auto mechanics, they need to make money too The local rate for body shop labor is 46.00 an hour in comparison. The mechanical rate for labor in a body shop is about $78 an hour. I certainly personally think that an auto mechanic and an auto body shop worker are equally skilled. Actually I would defer to the auto body shop worker. I've no idea why the disparity in hourly labor rate, but I bet pressure from insurance companies on body shops is a factor. And that lower body shop labor rate is something that any of us favors when they need work done. |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 10:19 AM | #81 | |
|
Captain
1097
Rep 823
Posts |
Quote:
A few points. Mattm, savings that a insurance company experiences ALWAYS have a positive effect for the consumer. ALWAYS! I'm not saying that 100% of any and all savings are pasted on in the form of discounts, but it is a competitive market out their and all companies walk a fine line on profit and expense. If the comapny CAN save money, it DOES effect what their pricing picture is. This is simple economics. Second point. Glass, not ALL claims cause issues and while your advise is generally good, I think it's a BAD idea for any consumer to go into a claim assuming the worst. There is always a place where it's a win/win deal and both sides should have the same goal. Be realistic in what you expect. Third point. Consumers should accept some responsibility for the negative results of many claims issues. Please, by a show of hands, how many of you have actually ready your insurance policy???? Yea, like I figured, not many. And I always hear the same excuse, "I don't understaand it!". Dang, you are paying big money for a legal contract you neither read nor understand? And you actually think the insurance comapny is at fault for you getting screwed! Geez! If you don't understand it, call someone. Your agent, your company, heck, even a lawyer. This is important stuff! If all you have is a 800 number, well, you get what you pay for! Good luck. Find a professional and pay for good expert service! Last point. Do your homework! Before I decided who I was going to insure my 1M with I called all my companies and found the best one for the "if" something happens. I asked about what if the car is stolen. I asked what if the replacement costs more then the orginal. Ask questions. Again, use a good professional that will give you the honest answer. I see no reason this claim should cause any heartburn. I'm sure their are small details we don't know about, but no one needs to screw or cheat anyone. My hope is the OP read his policy and understands what he paid for. Either way, he'll get more help from the insurance company then he will anyone else. I tell people all the time that insurance isn't a great way to handle the need but it what most people must use. If something better comes along, I'll retire but in the mean time we all need to do our home work (read the policy, find aa good professional, buy the best not the cheapest, etc.) and try to make the system work. Glass, I gotta imagine you have a hard time sleeping at night when you are pretty hard on the very industry that pays so many of your bills/ I do know the feeling, I love to haate Lawyers, but without them all our premiums would be alot lower abd so would my commissions so I'm kinda (KINDA) glad they are around. Good luck to OP and if any of us can help, I'm sure we will. |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 12:19 PM | #82 |
|
First Lieutenant
24
Rep 388
Posts |
As the world turns
 I love our forum its just life here and there. But it would be nice if insurance would just do what is right and just.. Than consumers wouldn't have to get an attorney everytime something went wrong. How many times have any adjusters told a client after sustaining damage to a rare car oh you are also in line for a diminished value claim after your repairs. I learned that the hard way. I just think if the person is in the business and they know all the ins and outs why not do the right thing. My two cents only and I know it's not a perfect world but guess who makes it that way ! We do .  sorry |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 12:31 PM | #83 | |
|
Captain
119
Rep 771
Posts
Drives: LBB M2C, VO 1M, GSA 1200
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Frozen Tundra
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2021 BMW X3M Compet ... [0.00]
2019 BMW S1000R [0.00] 2019 M2 Competition [0.00] 2018 BMW 1200 GSA [0.00] 2011 1M Coupe [9.75] |
Quote:
Maybe something good can come of this unfortunate circumstance and we can all learn about optimizing coverage for our beloved 1Ms. |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 12:36 PM | #84 | |
|
Major
 33
Rep 1,035
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 12:53 PM | #85 |
|
Brigadier General
2316
Rep 4,341
Posts |
I think we have gotten a little bit into generalities as far as insurance etc. the more pressing issues for the poster are 1. The issue of friend borrowing it and 2. The 1M is not an Accord. At last check Kelley Blue Book doesn't even list 1M . I contacted KBB and they told me that they don't have enough sales data to list 1M.
NADA lists 1M and seems close if you use their clean retail value but I'm not sure if insurance will use retail value. The irony is that even using the retail value , I doubt I could find a replacement 1 M for that amount. Maybe those of you that have recently sold your 1m could PM your sale price to the poster so he can get a ballpark. Options don't really matter much anymore , maybe 1k more for fully loaded vs stripper but mileage and mods have a bigger effect especially with some 1 year old cars with only 280 miles selling or posted recently, any sellers or recent buyers out there give the poster some ammo. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 01:49 PM | #86 |
|
Private First Class
9
Rep 148
Posts |
I totaled my 1M in March. It is the salvaged 1M in the thread that had the roof replaced. I have to say that that my experience with the insurance company was top rate. They treated me well and the results were very fair.
In retrospect, my best friend in the whole process was the tow truck driver. He spontaneously explained what to expect, step by step and what he would do along the way. Everything happened the way he described. By knowing what to expect, I was prepared and there was no drama and minimal emotion involved. He probably saved me thousands of dollars. My only regret is that I only tipped him $100. After the accident, while still in the car, I knew it was totaled. I was therefore not surprised when the insurance company informed me there was $50K of damage and they were declaring the car a total loss. They had an outside company determine the value of the car. I did not accept the first offer. There was some pleasant discussion about options, mileage and the rarity of the car. There were no harsh words and certainly no need for attorneys. I knew they had given me their best offer when they told me the next step would be arbitration. I was happy with the offer and deposited the check for the car 18 days after the accident. Once the car was declared a total loss they asked to move the car, just as my friend the tow truck driver predicted. I released the car and I don’t think it had any bearing on the discussion of the value of the car. Again, it was a very pleasant experience, although one I hope never to repeat. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 01:52 PM | #87 |
|
Brigadier General
481
Rep 4,156
Posts
Drives: 1/18 Monte Carlo Blue E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
|
As long as the OP can get 55k-58 from insurance he shouldn't have an issue finding one for that much. All the 60k+ ones are not selling but the 55-58 ones are.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
| 08-02-2012, 01:52 PM | #88 | |
|
Captain
1097
Rep 823
Posts |
Quote:
Name of the company?? |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
