[stressdoc]

Because there are rational reasons for sticking (teehee) with manual. $1250. Fewer repairs. Better gas mileage. Some things are still fun for some folks to do on their own. I agree with the riding mower analogy, but I am not willing to forego walking in the woods on my own feet, nor completely turning responsibility over to the orgasmatrons...

[ward]

Originally Posted by MonacoBlueNJ

Why are transmissions the only thing in which poeple refuse to give in and go with better, smarter, easier and more convenient technology? When talking SMG type transmissions, or even steptronic types, How can you say you'd rather use an extra pedal for no reason? When you mow your lawn would you use a non-motorized mower and then argue that you do it because you like to mow your lawn? Better yet, do you call the guy down the street with a ride-on mower "less of a man?"

if automatics are "better"
why are cars with automatics heavier?
why are cars with automatics slower?
why are cars with automatics less fuel efficient?
why won't it shift when i want it to (not fast enough in step mode)?

I think SMG, DSG.......... are a great idea and I would actually consider one of those for a commuter car. I don't think SMG/DSG will really get going for quite some time though. Lots of people can't/don't even understand the difference.

how many people have you talked to that think their lexus/mb/chrysler.......... has a sequential transmission?

the fact that smg costs more than a traditional auto will cause problems for it, I bet most people (this board is an exception) would not pay extra for a SMG type tranny.

the realy place it's becoming a pain is when companies make the automatic a "no cost" option, like BMW has done with the X3 3.0 in the states. That's a great way to make manual drivers pay for the automatic even though they don't want it. dammit

yeah, so DSG/SMG I'd try, but an auto------------NEVER

[stressdoc]

We almost ended up taking positions at USC last year -- all the commuter misery on this list makes me happy to still be in two-lane heaven. But I would definitely have seriously considered a steptronic in the LA environment. So much more practical in stop and go. And if you need an automatic, the BMW steptronic is a great one. I agree with ward's comments on SMG. Hopefully it will eventually get to the point where we all want one.

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

And if you need an automatic, the BMW steptronic is a great one.

Is there a good place to find more info about advantages/disadvatages on steptronic over traditional automatic transmission? I really don't know much about it.

As far as SMG goes, BMW uses it in their high-end sports cars, so I agree that it's not any worse than a true manual.

[cosmosblau]

manual vs. Automatic
is like
Chopsticks vs. Fork

[Squawks]

DSG is looking to be quite promising, as Audi has always been ahead of the rest of the game in terms of transmissions. DSG is faster than manual, period. Same goes for the system used in F1 racers - the probability of human error is astronomical compared to that of the computer (which is near zil).

Auto slower than manual - human errors are so great, in fact, that I see so many scenarios where the auto is faster than the manual using today's relatively mediocre U.S. drivers population as baseline. Autos rarely ever have it hard while manual drivers usually burn up their clutches trying to drag-start in one of those ever-so-precious street drags. Unless you are a seriously trained professional, you'll never get around to screwing up your little clutches and flywheels. Nevertheless, obviously a manual is faster than an auto transmission given a seasoned driver. But let me get to the bottome line of this speed embroilment: auto is only slower by 0.2 seconds. 6.3s over 6.1s. Wow, 0.2 seconds? I'm going to wet my pants!

Also, SMG is nearly the same price as the automatic transmission, when it was an available for the E90s (yup, there was a time when it was before BMW scratched it). Maybe just an extra hundred more.

The Audi A3 utilizes the DSG - everybody (including manual'ers) who tested it thus far have been quite amazed. But the funny thing is that it can substitute as an automatic.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Squawks

auto is only slower by 0.2 seconds. 6.3s over 6.1s. Wow, 0.2 seconds? I'm going to wet my pants!

lots of people wet their pants over 0.6 seconds difference to 60 between a 330 and a 325

6.1 vs 6.7 factory claims with manual boxes

[MonacoBlueNJ]

Originally Posted by ward

if automatics are "better"
why are cars with automatics heavier?
why are cars with automatics slower?
why are cars with automatics less fuel efficient?
why won't it shift when i want it to (not fast enough in step mode)?

They are heavier, slower, and less fuel efficient by minute amounts. And, give a stick to 95% of drivers and they could not drive it any faster than an auto.

[Robert]

Well I think its more of a demand and supply question. There is more demand for automatic that's why resale values will be higher for them. I personally prefer a manual but if 5 years down the line a SMG or DSG shiifts better than an human can and does it without parasitic loss of course I will switch over. The lawn mower analogy is perfect. How many you mow the lawn with the traditional push blade mowers, ones without power whatsoever. That's just inefficient these days. Sure you become fatter and less fit but I doubt anyone want to mow their lawn that way.

[Nikki]

I drove the A3 manual and the DSG. DSG>manual overall, but I found the manual more fun to drive. I was bored driving the DSG just tapping the stupid paddles.

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by Nikki

Yeah it's because people today are too lame to actually learn how to drive their cars, they can't figure out how to push in an extra pedal and move a knob around? Either that or they're too lazy to do it. But they talk on their cell phones, drink coffee, and read the newspaper during their morning commute--that seems like a challenge! sigh*

Nikki, I agree with everything you said - almost. I would love a stick, but I spend my time commuting and often am in heavy stop and go freeway traffic. Got tired of the constant clutching a few years ago - so I go with the auto. Too bad I can't have one of each!

[AskNiko]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

manual vs. Automatic
is like
Chopsticks vs. Fork

Awesome comparison. I agree, it is cultural.

People in Europe driving bimmers are wealthy. I can't agree with the argument that Europeans opt for the manual transmission because it is cheaper.

[tima]

I tried one - I really did - the wife liked it - I wanted to like it - I tried to like it. Having had no automatic before or since my '98 528 I went for two full years with my right fingers constantly itching toward the lever, my left leg twitching against the foot rest. And this in the ultimate burgher mobile. All along my body knew what was right and it finally convinced my brain - now my brain is re-engaged and the thrill that was gone is back. I didn't buy the car to resell - it'll resell itself because I'll take good care of it. Manuals are fun to drive - manuals are what bimmers are all about (yes yes with a nod toward the obligatory, in my opinion ).
.

[theclay]

Originally Posted by Nikki

Yeah it's because people today are too lame to actually learn how to drive their cars, they can't figure out how to push in an extra pedal and move a knob around? Either that or they're too lazy to do it. But they talk on their cell phones, drink coffee, and read the newspaper during their morning commute--that seems like a challenge! sigh*

I had manual cars for the last 18 years. They are great when I'm driving on open freeways at 5:00am on my way to work but coming home at 4:30 or 5:30pm through L.A. traffic is not as much fun. This is why I love the Steptronic trans. It is almost as much fun as a manual on open roads and when I am in thick traffic I can just be
lame and put it regular auto mode.
If I lived in a less crowded area I would buy another stick.

[theclay]

Originally Posted by AskNiko

People in Europe driving bimmers are wealthy.

Ok, your talking out of the side of your neck. Bimmers are a very common sight in Germany, Denmark, Austria, etc. and it isn't because so many people are wealthy over there. It is because they are built locally and the people have more bimmers to choose from including the less expensive ones. BMW USA markets their cars as high end autos exclusively.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by theclay

Ok, your talking out of the side of your neck. Bimmers are a very common sight in Germany, Denmark, Austria, etc. and it isn't because so many people are wealthy over there. It is because they are built locally and the people have more bimmers to choose from including the less expensive ones. BMW USA markets their cars as high end autos exclusively.

I think he made a typo by what he was saying, I think he meant that US BMW drivers in general are wealthier and drive auto, but europeans opt for the cheaper manual tranny.

[bookman2]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

I find this to be true too. I've met several people that still drive manual after years and just cannot wait to get rid of it and switch to auto. i guess it all depends on how much you have to drive in tedious traffic and how you want to drive your car. and as fatass pointed out, 330i + Stick + Sport Pckg type of people probably drive more on windy, fast, side roads rather than LA type of cities.

Why is Europe almost all in manual? They do have big cities and traffic too, so what's different then?

The difference is they are better drivers. Period.

[theclay]

Originally Posted by Nikki

I think he made a typo by what he was saying, I think he meant that US BMW drivers in general are wealthier and drive auto, but europeans opt for the cheaper manual tranny.

Ok, here is the whole quote.

Originally Posted by AskNiko

Awesome comparison. I agree, it is cultural.

People in Europe driving bimmers are wealthy. I can't agree with the argument that Europeans opt for the manual transmission because it is cheaper.

If typo means writing the exact opposite of what you mean then yes he made a typo.

[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

Nikki, I agree with everything you said - almost. I would love a stick, but I spend my time commuting and often am in heavy stop and go freeway traffic. Got tired of the constant clutching a few years ago - so I go with the auto. Too bad I can't have one of each!

You know what, I wouldn't even waste my money buying a BMW if this was the type of driving I had to do all the time. I don't buy this argument. Why subject an expensive BMW to the abuse of stop and go driving? Buy a beater for the commute, and buy a BMW for driving pleasure. I'm not saying that you should only use a BMW for fun drives, but for God's sake, if you do so much stop and go driving that you are tempted to buy an auto, buy something a little more practical. There have to be more economical cars to drive into the ground while having little or no fun stuck in traffic.

No offense to anyone here, but it sounds like a cop out. To each their own, but I can't really buy in to the argument that you had to buy an auto due to traffic. I used to drive into Baja all the time in my GTI and come back through the border several times a month. Talk about stop and go traffic! If I lived through it, you can too. Your clutch work might even get better if you had to drive manual tranny in traffic a little more. I know mine did.

[bookman2]

Originally Posted by MonacoBlueNJ

They are heavier, slower, and less fuel efficient by minute amounts. And, give a stick to 95% of drivers and they could not drive it any faster than an auto.

In all fairness 95% of other drivers are not represented on this board. When I find myself running against an auto driver on an open twisty road, I find it amusing but rarely challenging. My E39 was steptronic and I must admit it was fun at times, however, always in the back of my mind I knew I was driving a lesser version of what that car could have been. With my manual 330i there is simply no comparing the sense of engagement I have with this machine to that of my E39, what with the auto tranny shifting hither and thon while I need 2nd or 3rd NOW! But to each his own. I drive one of the most congested expressways in America everyday to work, the Dan Ryan (I 90/94), and have not found the manual to be a burden, but again that's just me. I have nothing against slushbox drivers at all, I'm merely profoundly uninspired by slushbox cars.

[theclay]

If your going to be stuck, a BMW is a nice car to be stuck with.

[AskNiko]

Originally Posted by theclay

Ok, your talking out of the side of your neck. Bimmers are a very common sight in Germany, Denmark, Austria, etc. and it isn't because so many people are wealthy over there.

I'm an American that lived in Europe for over six years. I do know what I'm talking about. If you look at the demogaphics of BMW drivers there, they are generally wealthy. Yes they are common, but no, it does not mean the average European is driving a BMW.