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      08-10-2018, 07:42 AM   #23
JimD
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Dack (or anybody),

Your story is somewhat like mine, at much slower speed in my case, except my result was different and I used lower octane on purpose. I tried it, my engine seemed to like it OK, so I kept using it. I wonder what you would have done if it seemed to perform the same on 95 octane.

This is off topic but relative to cleaning the intake on a n54 or n55, has anybody reported trying Seafoam? It can be added to the gas, added to the oil, or added with the air - squirted into the intake. For this I think you would want to squirt it into the intake. Project Farm is one youtube channel that tried it in some old engines - much less sophisticated engines - with good results. It seems to be fairly effective in removing carbon deposits. Our cars, even mine, are pretty expensive to try things like this with but it might have benefits something like walnut shell blasting.

I kind of think BMW motors are cry babies. When mine needed an alternator, it started showing me the battery symbol incessantly. My battery is 9+ years old so I planned to stop and get one on the way home from work. On all my previous cars, they would run at least 50 miles on a battery - it doesn't take that much to run a car. It takes a lot to start it but I am carrying my jumper cables now because my battery is so old. When I went 10 miles or so with the battery symbol on, the car started mis-firing, the wipers came on, and everything on the dash lit up. I stopped and called AAA who measured the battery voltage at 11.6V. That is a little low but does it really cause a mis-fire? It would not on my older cars. They would just crank slow or refuse to crank. I know we have a lot of electronics and really need the electricity to work properly but I think BMW in their corporate wisdom has programmed our cars to throw a fit when things aren't going well to be sure we notice. Just my theory. But I know what a mis-fire feels like.

Jim
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      08-10-2018, 12:12 PM   #24
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Not sure about the cleaning up the intake, but many recommended oil change regularly.

Back to octane, IF you drive 128 as a normal car, you wouldn't notice any differences between AKI 87 or AKI 95. You can keep using 87. No problem.

IF you drive it on a race track, or drive like racing on the street, you may see some differences but not sure how much. You'll use a lot of gas anyways.

One of the reason I use Shell 91 is that it has no ethanol. I hate ethanol.
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      08-10-2018, 07:38 PM   #25
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I buy some ethanol free gas but not for my car. I use it in my boat. The old 2 cycle outboard does not care about ethanol but it attracts water. My boat gets used less than I would like and the gas sometimes sits in the tank for months. I think ethanol free gas is less likely to plug up my carbs. If you store your car sometimes or drive it infrequently the same would apply. But mine gets used daily so I buy the cheaper gas with ethanol.
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      08-12-2018, 10:55 PM   #26
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JimD Before I got the Turner tune for my car, I ran 87 with absolutely no issues. Saved a few bucks per tank, and never noticed much difference (power, economy, etc). It did seem to idle a little less "securely" with 87 vs 93, but I don't like to spend much time idling anyway, so it wasn't a bother . Before a track weekend, I'd just pump in some 93, and all would be fine. I now always run 93 because it's what is "required" by the tune (or 91). Maybe I'll try an eighth of a tank of 87 or something to see if it doesn't throw a fit, but not until winter time (or probably ever)...

BTW, I NEVER fill up at Shell, they are WAY overpriced and (IMO) they are full of themselves. Costco is my go-to, but I don't worry too much about where I stop, in a pinch. My intake ports are CLEAN, like eat-your-dinner-in-them clean (I wouldn't, for obvious reasons though) and the car has 176k miles (159k with another owner), and the engine is just a champ.

Our engines (even tuned) aren't very stressed, don't have very high compression, and just aren't going to see as big a difference with a higher octane gas as the turbo 1'ers will (E85 blends and whatnot).
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      08-13-2018, 07:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
JimD Before I got the Turner tune for my car, I ran 87 with absolutely no issues. Saved a few bucks per tank, and never noticed much difference (power, economy, etc). It did seem to idle a little less "securely" with 87 vs 93, but I don't like to spend much time idling anyway, so it wasn't a bother . Before a track weekend, I'd just pump in some 93, and all would be fine. I now always run 93 because it's what is "required" by the tune (or 91). Maybe I'll try an eighth of a tank of 87 or something to see if it doesn't throw a fit, but not until winter time (or probably ever)...

BTW, I NEVER fill up at Shell, they are WAY overpriced and (IMO) they are full of themselves. Costco is my go-to, but I don't worry too much about where I stop, in a pinch. My intake ports are CLEAN, like eat-your-dinner-in-them clean (I wouldn't, for obvious reasons though) and the car has 176k miles (159k with another owner), and the engine is just a champ.

Our engines (even tuned) aren't very stressed, don't have very high compression, and just aren't going to see as big a difference with a higher octane gas as the turbo 1'ers will (E85 blends and whatnot).
Chris, what tune did you get, and what effect did it have on the motor? Mine is a stock 128i.
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      08-13-2018, 08:23 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
JimD Before I got the Turner tune for my car, I ran 87 with absolutely no issues. Saved a few bucks per tank, and never noticed much difference (power, economy, etc). It did seem to idle a little less "securely" with 87 vs 93, but I don't like to spend much time idling anyway, so it wasn't a bother . Before a track weekend, I'd just pump in some 93, and all would be fine. I now always run 93 because it's what is "required" by the tune (or 91). Maybe I'll try an eighth of a tank of 87 or something to see if it doesn't throw a fit, but not until winter time (or probably ever)...

BTW, I NEVER fill up at Shell, they are WAY overpriced and (IMO) they are full of themselves. Costco is my go-to, but I don't worry too much about where I stop, in a pinch. My intake ports are CLEAN, like eat-your-dinner-in-them clean (I wouldn't, for obvious reasons though) and the car has 176k miles (159k with another owner), and the engine is just a champ.

Our engines (even tuned) aren't very stressed, don't have very high compression, and just aren't going to see as big a difference with a higher octane gas as the turbo 1'ers will (E85 blends and whatnot).
Chris, what tune did you get, and what effect did it have on the motor? Mine is a stock 128i.
I got the tune from Turner; it's the Active Autowerke tune, just rebranded.

It actually took advantage of the 3-stage manifold I installed, gained a solid bit in the low end, gained a bit more linearity and pull in the top end, and the throttle response was noticeably better. No reliability issues so far, and the engine feels and runs 100%. Is that what you were asking?
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      08-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #29
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Chris,

I can see where a tuned car needs more octane. I'm also willing to accept that an untuned 128 needs more octane if it's driven hard. That's why I put higher octane in mine for the occasional autocross. I just don't think it pays for itself in mine for my daily commute.

Shell isn't more expensive for me, however. Around here, RaceTrak is the better deal for higher octane. But for 87, my rewards car 5 cent discount makes Shell close and sometimes lower than Walmart (don't have a Costco nearby). I guess it's a regional thing. Racetrak is well priced for regular and then only goes up 10 cents for mid and another 10 for premium. Shell often increases 15 or 20 cents as you go up in grade. I don't remember for sure but i think Walmart around here increases like Shell.

The other comment I have on use of Costco or Walmart gas is there is a significant believe that the upper tier gas brands have benefits due to better additive packages. I don't remember seeing data to back up that belief. I don't think the occasional fillup with other gas hurts my car, I think it might even help, but when I can get the Shell BMW recommends for the same price or less than the "off-brand" gas, I think it's a good option. But in other vehicles I've always used whatever was cheapest. My son gets my "hand-me-downs" and has one with 250K miles that runs fine and another with 150K that will probably give him close to another 10 years of reliable service. Can't cause any big problems. If he needs to clean out carbon, sometimes he uses seafoam in the intake.
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      08-17-2018, 09:23 AM   #30
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In my experience, other brands of ordinary cars can often run any type of gas as long as you put in the min. octane rating. The Toyotas I have owned in particular didn't care what you put in.

That said, on some of the BMWs I've had, in particular the X5 4.0 V8, E60 545, and F800GS moto, would run noticeably rougher on off brand gas. If I stopped at Shell or Chevron I could run mid grade (out west in NV that was 88-89) but if I went to any other stations like CITGO/7-11 or Grocery Store Gas it would idle like crap and run rougher.

Here is an article by consumer reports re: top-tier gas. Can't argue with science.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...h-extra-price/


Side note, I have always found it funny watching people sit at Costco waiting to use the gas pump idling. I don't have the time or patience to wait 20 min to get gas...
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      08-17-2018, 11:49 AM   #31
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There is a school of thought that the detergents in top tier gas can leave [detergent] deposits. For this reason some recommend switching gasoline brands as there are different additive packages. The one exception is that is seems PEA doesn't leave deposits and is most effective at cleaning. This is the active ingredient in Techron, Gumout Regane and other additives.
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      08-17-2018, 01:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post


Side note, I have always found it funny watching people sit at Costco waiting to use the gas pump idling. I don't have the time or patience to wait 20 min to get gas...
It amazes me to see them sitting forever for $.20 a gallon savings.
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      08-17-2018, 01:50 PM   #33
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It amazes me to see them sitting forever for $.20 a gallon savings.
If that... for the 1er I drive about 10,000 miles a yr. At 23.7 mpg = 420 gallons * $0.20 = $84 in savings - $55 costco membership = $29 a year (or $0.07 a gallon in savings.

I got better things to do with my time than waste it at Costo.
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      08-17-2018, 02:06 PM   #34
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It amazes me to see them sitting forever for $.20 a gallon savings.
Yeah, you'd never catch me in that kind of a line waiting for gas. Not worth it to me.
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      08-17-2018, 04:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
If that... for the 1er I drive about 10,000 miles a yr. At 23.7 mpg = 420 gallons * $0.20 = $84 in savings - $55 costco membership = $29 a year (or $0.07 a gallon in savings.

I got better things to do with my time than waste it at Costo.
I have the COSTCO Business membership, for other things, but hell if I will sit in line for a few bucks, and I drive less than half what you drive.
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      08-18-2018, 02:20 PM   #36
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Costco was on the top tier list.

I don't wait typically either. I usually don't pay any more to go somewhere with a shorter line. At most 5 cents a gallon.
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      08-18-2018, 02:44 PM   #37
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During cruise (unless you cruise at 140 mph) your car is under such low load that it can run optimal timing advance with 87 octane easily. The factory tune may or may not do this since factory cars generally err on the side of less advance to help the cat work better.

Custom tune with lean burn stoich under light load and removed cat will net you noticeably improved fuel economy. I did that on my last DI car with factory wideband and EGT probe. Theoretically DI cars can run extremely lean with something called stratified combustion but that requires more than a simple remap.

Where high octane comes into play is under heavier load. And if you're getting into that range during normal driving your mileage will suffer anyway.
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