[ABR]

I drove front wheel drive for a long time…. So, naturally I was a bit uneasy about going to classic arrangement, especially keeping in mind that winter in Canada means cold and snow. I almost have got xdrive, but passed on it due to 10 weeks wait.

Today we have got nasty weather in Toronto -2c and half of inch of snow. So, I was quite curious about how my 330i will deal with slippery conditions. I pushed a bit harder on stop and turn to see how does car handle itself with all-season tires.

Well, that is true that back wheel drive tend to skid a bit more, but I don’t see a huge difference. I guess, all front-back wheel story a bit overrated. Actually, with back wheel drive it is even easier to start from a full stop, as you wheels do not skid on white road paint.

Can't wait we get real blizzard to see the difference under even worse conditions.

What do you pals say?

[Bimmerista]

Hey ABR,

I come from even further upstream - drove a A4 1.8 quatro until now.

So for me I certainly noticed already that the car slips. But I will have to agree with you - the difference in slipping etc with a FWD will not be any to speak of.

Where FWD traditionally has an advantage, because of the weight on the driving tires, is in starting - such as on a hill from a dead stop, or to get out of a snow bank (the traditional FWD set up has a 60-40 split and therefore more weight on the front tires).

Traction control has narrowed this gap a great deal, but not completely. It is more of a nuance now hoever than any great disadvantage to RWD. In terms of being able to drive your car everyday in snow, with good winters you should not feel inferior to FWDs. And skids are easier to control, because you don't loose your steering as well when your driving wheels loose traction.

[benoitch]

I totally agree with Bimmerista. Have had front wheels drive for so long I don't remember. With all the traction aid nowdays, it's just a matter of adapting some (bad) habits. And yes, I hate losing steering control so evident with FWD. Remember when the front wheels decided to go straight in a curve ? It's even much scarier than skidding the back a bit. A lot easier to control with RWD.

In much snow I prefer deactivating the DTC and all. Sometimes it gets in the way and you end up fighting against it. Other than that, just need to adapt...

[Pyrat 2]

I put snow tires on my e46 330i when I had it and now on my e90 (see signature for pics of the car with and without snows). While I haven't experienced snow yet in my e90 I can say that my e46 had no issues and had better traction than most other cars on the road. This was true to the point of me not even considering the xi model when I bought the e90. I live in the Chicago area so snow is a way of life in winter.

I attribute this to a few factors:
Snow tires have come a long way.
Traction control.
Most front/4wd drive people do not buy snow tires.

Net-net I end up with more control in the snow than most other vehicles on the road. This is only fitting because this is clearly the case in the summer too!

[Atty]

Alot of the "benefits" of FWD are marketing hype that have made their way into modern automotive culture of the uninformed. Basically, FWD/AWD only helps a car accelerate better in snow. All cars stop the same, which to me is the more critical component of driving in snow, and why there are so many accidents.

How many people do you know that have AWD cars and are overly confident in the snow? It doesn't take them long to realize that although they can accelerate out of a snowdrift, they can't stop the car as it slides down an ice covered hill.

[Guess]

Here is the thing.

Most RWD cars, even with snow tires, are crap in the snow and ice (ex. mustang) The reason behind that, is because the manufacturer of those vehicles isnt as anal as BMW. BMW has put in so much thought and engineering in their vehicles, its not even funny. the car has even 50/50 weight distribution, which accounts to why the vehicle is so great on any road condition.

I have driven fwd cars, rwd cars(and trucks), awd cars(and trucks) and nothing compares to how my bmw handles ice and snow combined on winter tires.

The only thing thats better in the snow (deep snow) then the bimmer is my jeep, but that thing is 4wd, short wheelbase and sitting on 35x12.5" tires.

So ya, with a bmw, the rwd=sucks in the snow is very much over rated.

[ABR]

How noticeable the difference between all-season and snow tires? I had snow tires a while ago, don’t even remember…..

[com_mander]

We got our first snow of the winter here the other day, and with snow tires the RWD E90 is fine. From a standing start, I find it better in the snow than my FWD VW Jetta (also with Traction control and the exact same winter tires). I think due to BMWs traction control being better. I also notice a difference going around corners while accelerating (like away from a light). The wheels spin and the back end comes around a bit quicker than it would otherwise, but the traction control kicks in before it you start to worry, and it's actually pretty fun. It's like you can throttle steer at low speed.

[benoitch]

Originally Posted by com_mander

We got our first snow of the winter here the other day, and with snow tires the RWD E90 is fine. From a standing start, I find it better in the snow than my FWD VW Jetta (also with Traction control and the exact same winter tires). I think due to BMWs traction control being better. I also notice a difference going around corners while accelerating (like away from a light). The wheels spin and the back end comes around a bit quicker than it would otherwise, but the traction control kicks in before it you start to worry, and it's actually pretty fun. It's like you can throttle steer at low speed.

It also a question of FWD transfert weight problem. As you surely all know, accelerating transfers weight to the back. The consequence being that FWD's lose traction while RWD gain traction. That holds true even on ice and snow. If you're carefull enough and don't rush it, the car should be able to start easier. It is in curves that, if you're not careful enough, RWD can, and I emphasize "can", trick you. But then again, FWD can also under-steer quite a lot...

How noticeable the difference between all-season and snow tires? I had snow tires a while ago, don’t even remember…..

A world of difference. Of course depending on the temperature and weather in your area. As I guess in your case, it is not all that different than me. Below -10,-15 C, all-seasons can do squat for traction. All-seasons are always a compromise (summer AND winter).

[wongmb]

FWD is only slighlt better on a hill start or cutting thru deep snow from standstill. Otherwise E90 with proper winter tires will take you anywhere including your ski cottage.
Winter tire is a must though, especially RWD cars. Even FWD they should use winter tire. I always think government should make winter tire mandatary or insurance company gives drivers a discount for having winter tires.

[ChineseGuy]

What about "all season tires"? Myself, is just too poor to get new rims or winter tires JUST YET! So does my all season tires work on snow still?

[needashower]

There is a reason that BMW offers the AWD versions of their cars (now the 5 series is also available in an XI format). I'm in my 40's (please suppress your laughter) and live in Chicago. I'm happy to spend the $2K for the AWD drive option and carry the extra 200 pounds knowing I'm taking a minor performance penalty, for the peace of mind of minimizing my risk of getting stuck on an unplowed Chicago street or alley that is covered with 6 inches of snow. I'm also lazy, and don't want to hassle with tire changes every 6 months. As much as I think buying the RWD variant and spending $1K on snow tires is a good solution to this problem, I am leaning toward the XI. This is why BMW offers the XI, to each his own.

[ABR]

Originally Posted by ChineseGuy

What about "all season tires"? Myself, is just too poor to get new rims or winter tires JUST YET! So does my all season tires work on snow still?

Of cause they will work, just they are not gripping as much as snows.

[JonnyCrash]

There is a LOT of bad information out there on this subject, please be warned. With that said, the following is the utter and basic truth of the matter. Specific makes/models will vary slightly due to electronic gizmos, but this is the basics:

Back in the old days, cars used to have a very front-heavy bias: large, heavy engines in the front meant that the weight distribution favoured the nose of the car. Coupled with rear wheel drive, this led to a lot of slippage in snow and wintery conditions. It was never so much that rear wheel drive wasn't as good as front wheel drive in the snow: it was just that all the weight was centred on the non-drive wheels. The rear wheels simply did not get enough grip, and spun around trying to push a mass, at rest, in the front. Think of basic physics, using the Newtonian laws and laws of friction.

Front wheel drive cars solved that problem by putting the weight over the drive wheels, while introducing other handling problems by having the steering and drive wheels in the same place. It was a lot better for winter driving, though, because of where the weight was: the front wheels were under the most weight, and therefore gripped better than the rear wheels. The by-product of this was that quite often the car would drive, but the rear end would fishtail under snowy conditions.

As cars have matured and modernized, particularly over the past fifteen years, engines have become much lighter, and car weight distributions much closer to 50-50. At an even weight distribution, a front wheel drive car has NO benefit in wintery conditions over a rear wheel drive car: they would be equally effective. In fact, rear wheel drive would have a slight advantage because the drive wheels and the steering wheels are seperated.

Therefore, a RWD vehicle is going to be as good as a FWD vehicle in the snow, AS LONG AS IT IS WEIGHTED PROPERLY. A BMW has almost perfect 50-50 distribution, and will therefore be as good or better than any FWD vehicle in snowy/icy conditions.

And that's "the more you know... automotive edition." Drive safe.

[DDTAN]

Originally Posted by ChineseGuy

What about "all season tires"? Myself, is just too poor to get new rims or winter tires JUST YET! So does my all season tires work on snow still?

When I used my all-season tires on snow, the car wouldn't even move on the mildest incline. (we're not talking a hill or anything like that). With traction control on, the engine would just rev and the car didn't go anywhere. Very embarassing when it happens to you in traffic. You need snow tires if it snows where you live.
Having driven both fwd and rwd in snow, I must say I prefer rwd. Having gotten used to snow with rwd, my automatic reactions to a skid are the reverse of what they should be when driving fwd, and the results are scary.

[wongmb]

Once you are hooked to a RWD car like me, there is no turning back to FWD. But if you dont enjoy the driving sensation a RWD gives you, then FWD prob serves better especially if it snows where you live. Just can't beat the feeling of how a RWD car exits a corner relative to FWD.
And all-season tires are a joke when the road is snow covered

[ChineseGuy]

Um, how much snow did u had, when your car only rev, and didn't move?

Cuase where i lived, i don't think the snow would go over 2 inches.

I'll get snow tires later eventually, just not now where all my money is invested in the looks of the car.

Traction control?

i heard if u turn off traction control on snow, it actually runs better than with tractoin control.

[ChineseGuy]

oops, sori to do the quotes, but the above reply is directed to DDTAN

[benoitch]

It's not only a matter of snow. Think about the ice and black-ice. All season tires are not good enough for temperature below -15 Celsius (or -8 Farenheit). They lose their grip and slip because their compound becomes to hard. It all depends on what kind of weather you get over there. Keep in mind that some European contries have laws forcing the now tires in winter. Canada is also talking about such a thing (at least in Quebec).

[espo]

No matter what car you have (FWD, RWD, AWD) if you have the right tires and the right attitude about driving in the snow, you will be able to get around. If you don't you will not... I've seen too many SUVs in ditches around here because the drivers said "well I have an SUV, I can do 50 mph in the snow on the highway and still make that off-ramp" Yea right...

Any yes there are a number of people here who have RWD cars (some BMW's), but they put winter tires on and drive resonably and have no problems.... The really problem I have in the snow here (I have AWD, but with A/S tires) is that the idot in the next lane doesn't think the same way...

[Petercat]

Today was the first good snow in Minneapolis so I had to get out and test this rear wheel drive issue.
Running on my all-season Bridgestone Turanza's I was very pleasantly suprised. Especially coming from my A4.
Yes, the rear wheel drive likes to "skate" a bit more on acceleration and around tighter corners during acceleration, but the traction control is the best I have ever experienced (even better than Porsche PSM).
My 325 handled very well and never gave me a concern for my safety, even when I attempted some hard acceleration in corners.
If you stay on the gas and drive smoothly, the rear will drift a bit and allow for some fun, but if you hesitate at all, the DTC does step in. When the DTC steps in, it is a very smooth intrusion. In the A4, the car bogged and the front seemed to dive a bit while the BMW always keeps it's composure.
I was suprised by the pulsing of the acceleration in conjunction with the braking where other systems seem to be all brake.
I am sure I'll keep the all-seasons. The only reason I would upgrade to winter tires is if I get tired of the slower acceleration due to the DTC helping out. I'm sure winters will give the extra traction that may be lacking.

[beamer]

Originally Posted by DDTAN

When I used my all-season tires on snow, the car wouldn't even move on the mildest incline. (we're not talking a hill or anything like that). With traction control on, the engine would just rev and the car didn't go anywhere. Very embarassing when it happens to you in traffic. You need snow tires if it snows where you live.

I had the same experience. I have an e46 touring RWD and last year tried to make it through the winter with the all-season tires (< 500 miles on them when winter started). I was caught a few occasions on slight up-hills when there was a small amount of packed snow. It was odd pressing down the accelerator and having nothing happen at all (I don’t even recall the engine reving). Switching off DSC let the tires spin and usually dug through the snow, but I felt foolish every time it happened, and a couple of times I had to back down the hill. I’m going to pick up some winter tires for this season. Has anyone tried the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25’s? I do a lot of highway driving in the winter and want something that will dig into the snow a little without making the car drive like has flat tires. Any help would be great. Thanks.