Speeding BMW driver convicted after online boast

Lester · 08-12-2010, 07:48 AM

Speeding BMW driver convicted after online boast
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By Megan O'Toole, National PostAugust 11, 2010
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A 2006 BMW M5, similar to this one, was driven by Vladimir Rigenco.
Photograph by: Graeme Fletcher, National Post

http://www.driving.ca/Speeding+drive...077/story.html

A Vaughan, Ont., teenager convicted of careless driving after boasting online about his speeding exploits has become the latest cautionary tale for social media users.
Vladimir Rigenco, 19, found himself the target of a police probe several months ago, when a U.S. citizen called in a tip stemming from Mr. Rigenco's post on an Internet forum for BMW fans. In it, the young man boasted about driving 100 kilometres per hour above the posted speed limit on Apple Blossom Drive, a residential road in Vaughan.

Now, Mr. Rigenco has been convicted, sentenced last week to a six-month driving prohibition and 12 months of probation. He must also complete a remedial driving program and pay a $1,000 fine.
Alan Ackerman, a expert in privacy and social media with the University of Toronto, said the young man's "exhibitionistic comment" illustrates a fundamental knowledge gap about what is public and what is private.

"It looks like he didn't really anticipate what that would set off," Mr. Ackerman said.

York Regional Police Constable Serguei Barmakov, the arresting officer in Mr. Rigenco's case, said it all began with a tip from an American citizen, which prompted police to visit the 5 Series Forums, an online discussion tool for BMW enthusiasts.

"As a result of that, we observed this character boasting his dangerous driving behaviour," Const. Barmakov said. "A full-scale investigation was launched to [determine] whether there was any substance to the words."

Mr. Rigenco's posting indicated he was travelling 140 km/hr in a 40 km/hr zone on March 15, Mr. Barmakov said. Armed with those details -- and with photos of the suspect and his vehicle taken from the forum -- police canvassed the relevant area in Vaughan for witnesses, and found several.

"It appears that this was a repeated behaviour," Const. Barmakov said, though the police probe only focused on the one incident.

Police charged Mr. Rigenco in April with dangerous driving, a criminal offence, but charges were later downgraded to careless driving under the Highway Traffic Act in light of the 19-year-old's guilty plea.
Const. Barmakov said this is the first time he has launched an investigation because of an online posting, calling it evidence of a new era.

Toronto-based traffic lawyer Volga Pankou noted that such a posting, on its own, would likely not be sufficient evidence in court to prove careless driving.
"If the guy who posted it said, 'No, it was just a joke, I didn't do it,' then police would have to prove during the trial if they had any other evidence," Ms. Pankou said.

Mr. Ackerman says this is just the latest example of youth landing themselves in hot water because of their attachment to modern social media tools. There are cases of people being discovered for faking "sick days" at work after pictures of partying emerged on Facebook; cheating and infidelity have similarly been uncovered.

"I think there's really been a breakdown in the sense of what is and isn't private," Mr. Ackerman said. "It's a very profound cultural development, let alone having legal ramifications."
As for Mr. Rigenco, Const. Barmakov says the teenager readily admitted to his actions and has since shown remorse.

"He obviously understands the dangerous behaviour and the consequences it could potentially result in," Const. Barmakov said. "He was actually glad he was stopped before something terrible would happen."

and 1 · 08-12-2010, 08:11 AM

wow that's a bitch! kinda stupid tho, being so specific in a post like that

SupremePower3335 · 08-12-2010, 08:19 AM

I have mixed feelings about this..yest it's dangerous and obsolutely he should not be doing it and bragging about it. HOWEVER police in Ontario are going too far. The current "street racing" law is too much. You all know how easy it is in these cars to do 150km on the hwy! I guess that's not what we are talking about though..140km in a resdential area is very stupid!

1HungryMan · 08-12-2010, 08:33 AM

Far too many people are focusing on the stupidity of the kid rather than the OUTRAGEOUS precedent of charging someone based on "witnesses". Excuse me, he didn't commit murder, it was a speeding boast, and he wasn't caught doing it. And yet he was convicted. It is simply incredible.

Was he a douchebag, endangering the lives of people? Apparently. But the idea of convicting someone based on an online boast, and some "witnesses" who saw him speed (do they have a radar gun?) is unreal and a complete abrogation of the rule of law. I would have hired Clayton Ruby and had that shit tossed out of court. Sometimes I can't even believe the manner in which police abuse their powers. If the kid was caught speeding at that level using a radar gun, I'd say "throw the book at him and keep our community safe"--but he wasn't.

BlackjackMulligan · 08-12-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupremePower3335

I have mixed feelings about this..yest it's dangerous and obsolutely he should not be doing it and bragging about it. HOWEVER police in Ontario are going too far. The current "street racing" law is too much. You all know how easy it is in these cars to do 150km on the hwy! I guess that's not what we are talking about though..140km in a resdential area is very stupid!

How can you have any mixed feelings about someone going over 100kph over the speedlimit?

larryn · 08-12-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

How can you have any mixed feelings about someone going over 100kph over the speedlimit?

Basically, he was going at least 100mph in a residential neighborhood. I agree with ya, Blackjack!

Dackelone · 08-12-2010, 10:38 AM

The Police should have caught him red handed - in the act of speeding.

I don't see how you can convict someone solely on an internet statement! Or even say an online video. What kind of Kangaroo courts do you guys have in Canada! What happened to being innocent before PROVEN guilty! Sure this kid is a moron... but what about our civill rights!

fwmcb · 08-12-2010, 10:44 AM

That's kind of messed up, how can they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed the crime, there was no one on scene with a radar gun able to confirm the speed he was traveling and confirm that he was in fact the driver of the vehicle. We've all seen some bright lights on here with some false claims. I just think that we are going the wrong way by convicting people in this manner. Anyone who commits such an offense if caught should likely in my opinion never be permitted to drive again.

gavolant · 08-12-2010, 10:53 AM

Do you think if someone confessed to a murder they are going to say "well we didn't see you do it, so have a nice day" ?

Dackelone · 08-12-2010, 11:10 AM

I don't believe speeding and murder are even in the same league! It is one thing to go after pedophile or rapists or murders via online... but convicting people of speeding on shear hear say or boasting is just plain wrong. No matter how fast he was claiming.

Have you guys ever seen this dvd called: Vehicular Lunatics

Talk about being reckless driving on the streets of Florida. But unless a cop see's them breaking a law... then nothing will be done to them. That is our judicial system like it or not.

for some reason this embeded link doesn't work. Here is teh link to YouTube.

[u2b]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnuhhbI-bXA?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnuhhbI-bXA?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b]

1HungryMan · 08-12-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavolant

Do you think if someone confessed to a murder they are going to say "well we didn't see you do it, so have a nice day" ?

Yup, speeding and murder, same thing. <roll eyes>

Last time I checked, cops have radar guns because the law doesn't allow even them to eyeball someone's speed and issue a ticket, nevermind lay a very serious charge of careless driving based on the eyeballing. Or at least they would never get a conviction.

BTW even if he had murdered someone and bragged about it online, there would still be the necessity of further evidence given the rather elastic nature of online conversations. No prosecutor would ever settle for an online confession if they wanted a charge to stick and get a conviction. Irony, stupidity, vanity make online words mostly meaningless.

I have exceeded the speed limit many times along with millions of others. Will I be arrested next for boasting about it? Unreal. The smart and obviously MORE WORK solution would simply have set up a speed trap and catch the guy, plain and simple, especially since he was a repeat offender.

gavolant · 08-12-2010, 11:28 AM

My point wasn't to compare murder to speeding, just that admitting guilt can have its repercussions. I have received a ticket myself from a cop that was 'pacing' me, and even that doesn't hold up well in court. The point is that he basically admitted guilt, and though there is no substantial evidence or radar data, what is to be said when the judge reads his own quote? Sure there are ways out of what he said but it's still ridiculous to post this kind of stuff online, especially when you give a specific speed.

ErvGotti · 08-12-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1HungryMan

Yup, speeding and murder, same thing. <roll eyes>

Last time I checked, cops have radar guns because the law doesn't allow even them to eyeball someone's speed and issue a ticket, nevermind lay a very serious charge of careless driving based on the eyeballing. Or at least they would never get a conviction.
BTW even if he had murdered someone and bragged about it online, there would still be the necessity of further evidence given the rather elastic nature of online conversations. No prosecutor would ever settle for an online confession if they wanted a charge to stick and get a conviction. Irony, stupidity, vanity make online words mostly meaningless.

I have exceeded the speed limit many times along with millions of others. Will I be arrested next for boasting about it? Unreal. The smart and obviously MORE WORK solution would simply have set up a speed trap and catch the guy, plain and simple, especially since he was a repeat offender.

Dont go to ohio that dumb ass state just passed a law allowing officers to issue speeding tickets based on "their training". Calabrated eyes i guess.

1HungryMan · 08-12-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Dont go to ohio that dumb ass state just passed a law allowing officers to issue speeding tickets based on "their training". Calabrated eyes i guess.

C'mon?? Really??

larryn · 08-12-2010, 12:33 PM

To those of you making fun of the murder versus speeding analogy... Let's see people's "lists" of what illegal things that people boast of that you feel should be perfectly fine, and which are not.

Damage to property? Ripping up a flower on their lawn compared to hit and run.
Personal harm? Wrist slap versus whacking somebody with a 9 iron
Driving? Improper non-use of a turn signal versus going 3.5 x the speed limit in a residential neighborhood

Are you going to take intent or mood into account, extenuating circumstances (speeding to hospital versus street racing)?

I'm glad this kid got busted, and think it was right. There cannot be 800 shades of gray.

ErvGotti · 08-12-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1HungryMan

C'mon?? Really??

No kidding they passed the law about 4-5 months ago, allowing cops to issue tickets without a radar or lazer gun proof.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/03/...ing/index.html

Sorry it's not a law the ohio supreme court just ruled in favor of the cop.

Jaguar66 · 08-12-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

for some reason this embeded link doesn't work. Here is teh link to YouTube.

Easy to imbed put just the embed code (not the full URL) between the U2 embed codes. like this but with the brackets U2B xnuhhbI-bXA /U2B

1HungryMan · 08-12-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

To those of you making fun of the murder versus speeding analogy... Let's see people's "lists" of what illegal things that people boast of that you feel should be perfectly fine, and which are not.

Damage to property? Ripping up a flower on their lawn compared to hit and run.
Personal harm? Wrist slap versus whacking somebody with a 9 iron
Driving? Improper non-use of a turn signal versus going 3.5 x the speed limit in a residential neighborhood

Are you going to take intent or mood into account, extenuating circumstances (speeding to hospital versus street racing)?

I'm glad this kid got busted, and think it was right. There cannot be 800 shades of gray.

I think you're making the common mistake of mixing morality with due process. In both the US and Canadian systems, these charges would get thrown out with a good lawyer. There are few people that would side with the kid on his douchebagedness and danger to the community, but I happen to be more scared of trampling of due process than a kid in a 5 series. Once again, the best thing to do would be for the cops to do actual work and nail him on his favored street. Case closed.

For fun, you should read the thread that started it all. It's pretty surreal. The other net effect of this story is that no company will ever insure him again given the publicity.

supraking · 08-12-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by and 1

wow that's a bitch! kinda stupid tho, being so specific in a post like that

It's not a bitch. There is never any excuse for excessive speed on public roads. It kills, maims, and injures, but not always the person who's doing the driving. There are plenty of lapping/track days in a safe environment to open up our cars and take them beyond their limits. Residential roads are not the place for it.

That having been said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1HungryMan

Far too many people are focusing on the stupidity of the kid rather than the OUTRAGEOUS precedent of charging someone based on "witnesses". Excuse me, he didn't commit murder, it was a speeding boast, and he wasn't caught doing it. And yet he was convicted. It is simply incredible.

Was he a douchebag, endangering the lives of people? Apparently. But the idea of convicting someone based on an online boast, and some "witnesses" who saw him speed (do they have a radar gun?) is unreal and a complete abrogation of the rule of law. I would have hired Clayton Ruby and had that shit tossed out of court. Sometimes I can't even believe the manner in which police abuse their powers. If the kid was caught speeding at that level using a radar gun, I'd say "throw the book at him and keep our community safe"--but he wasn't.

I agree 100%. Charging someone of a crime that was not confirmed to have happened in the first place is insane. That's like a cop pulling you over and saying "the guy driving behind you said you were speeding. Here's your ticket."

What if my neighbours and I don't like the new guy down the street? Can we go tell the cops we saw him engaged in human trafficking? What if we hack his wireless internet and post it on a forum somewhere?

A bit of a slippery slope, I know, but I still think this is a dangerous precedent we're setting here. Like I said, I don't condone excessive speed on regular roads, but I think that the authorities should need to actually witness (or hear, or SENSE) the crime taking place.

What if he exaggerated his speed, and it was more like 20km/h or 50km/h over the limit? Should he still be fined the same amount? Did the witnesses have radar guns? How do they know how fast he was going? Total BS. I'm shocked they actually convicted this guy.

BlackjackMulligan · 08-12-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1HungryMan

Far too many people are focusing on the stupidity of the kid rather than the OUTRAGEOUS precedent of charging someone based on "witnesses". Excuse me, he didn't commit murder, it was a speeding boast, and he wasn't caught doing it. And yet he was convicted. It is simply incredible.

Was he a douchebag, endangering the lives of people? Apparently. But the idea of convicting someone based on an online boast, and some "witnesses" who saw him speed (do they have a radar gun?) is unreal and a complete abrogation of the rule of law. I would have hired Clayton Ruby and had that shit tossed out of court. Sometimes I can't even believe the manner in which police abuse their powers. If the kid was caught speeding at that level using a radar gun, I'd say "throw the book at him and keep our community safe"--but he wasn't.

Far too many people are overlooking the fact that this a$$hole could've killed someone. My wife walks my dog in my neighborhood. GOD FORBID some punk a$$ teen in daddys car was doing 100 on my street and something happened (or happened to someone you know and love). I cannot even begin to think about it.

F*ck this kid and too bad he didn't get more. Not only did he brag about it and probably do it, but he also contributes to the other a$$holes who read the forums and decide they want to be cool too and drive like that. If he was stupid enough to say he did it then he deserves what he gets.

Also, to everyone who thinks he was "wrongfully convicted".....read the story. HE PLED GUILTY.

1HungryMan · 08-12-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

Far too many people are overlooking the fact that this a$$hole could've killed someone. My wife walks my dog in my neighborhood. GOD FORBID some punk a$$ teen in daddys car was doing 100 on my street and something happened (or happened to someone you know and love). I cannot even begin to think about it.

F*ck this kid and too bad he didn't get more. Not only did he brag about it and probably do it, but he also contributes to the other a$$holes who read the forums and decide they want to be cool too and drive like that. If he was stupid enough to say he did it then he deserves what he gets.

Also, to everyone who thinks he was "wrongfully convicted".....read the story. HE PLED GUILTY.

No one says he was "wrongfully convicted" and most civilized adults know that he was a menace. What's very troubling is the idea of laying charges and having them turn into a conviction on the basis of an online boast for a crime that "never happened" (note the air quotes please). Catch him in the act and you have grounds for a conviction. Otherwise you're on very shaky ground. If this issue doesn't bother you, please don't call me when the cops come to your house for bragging about screwing the neighbor's daughter--even if it was a joke.

larryn · 08-12-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1HungryMan

I think you're making the common mistake of mixing morality with due process. In both the US and Canadian systems, these charges would get thrown out with a good lawyer. There are few people that would side with the kid on his douchebagedness and danger to the community, but I happen to be more scared of trampling of due process than a kid in a 5 series. Once again, the best thing to do would be for the cops to do actual work and nail him on his favored street. Case closed.

For fun, you should read the thread that started it all. It's pretty surreal. The other net effect of this story is that no company will ever insure him again given the publicity.

You forgot one thing... He pleaded guilty, when asked, so the cops were 1000% right in charging him... I assume his parents (thankfully) made him own up. As the article also rightfully points out that the kid could have said "it was only a joke" (meaning the braggart thread), and it would have been up to the cops to prove it... So, that is why I think the 'rents got involved.

08-12-2010, 07:48 AM	#1
Lester Brigadier General 295 Rep 3,350 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	Speeding BMW driver convicted after online boast Speeding BMW driver convicted after online boast * * By Megan O'Toole, National PostAugust 11, 2010 * * A 2006 BMW M5, similar to this one, was driven by Vladimir Rigenco. Photograph by: Graeme Fletcher, National Post http://www.driving.ca/Speeding+drive...077/story.html A Vaughan, Ont., teenager convicted of careless driving after boasting online about his speeding exploits has become the latest cautionary tale for social media users. Vladimir Rigenco, 19, found himself the target of a police probe several months ago, when a U.S. citizen called in a tip stemming from Mr. Rigenco's post on an Internet forum for BMW fans. In it, the young man boasted about driving 100 kilometres per hour above the posted speed limit on Apple Blossom Drive, a residential road in Vaughan. Now, Mr. Rigenco has been convicted, sentenced last week to a six-month driving prohibition and 12 months of probation. He must also complete a remedial driving program and pay a $1,000 fine. Alan Ackerman, a expert in privacy and social media with the University of Toronto, said the young man's "exhibitionistic comment" illustrates a fundamental knowledge gap about what is public and what is private. "It looks like he didn't really anticipate what that would set off," Mr. Ackerman said. York Regional Police Constable Serguei Barmakov, the arresting officer in Mr. Rigenco's case, said it all began with a tip from an American citizen, which prompted police to visit the 5 Series Forums, an online discussion tool for BMW enthusiasts. "As a result of that, we observed this character boasting his dangerous driving behaviour," Const. Barmakov said. "A full-scale investigation was launched to [determine] whether there was any substance to the words." Mr. Rigenco's posting indicated he was travelling 140 km/hr in a 40 km/hr zone on March 15, Mr. Barmakov said. Armed with those details -- and with photos of the suspect and his vehicle taken from the forum -- police canvassed the relevant area in Vaughan for witnesses, and found several. "It appears that this was a repeated behaviour," Const. Barmakov said, though the police probe only focused on the one incident. Police charged Mr. Rigenco in April with dangerous driving, a criminal offence, but charges were later downgraded to careless driving under the Highway Traffic Act in light of the 19-year-old's guilty plea. Const. Barmakov said this is the first time he has launched an investigation because of an online posting, calling it evidence of a new era. Toronto-based traffic lawyer Volga Pankou noted that such a posting, on its own, would likely not be sufficient evidence in court to prove careless driving. "If the guy who posted it said, 'No, it was just a joke, I didn't do it,' then police would have to prove during the trial if they had any other evidence," Ms. Pankou said. Mr. Ackerman says this is just the latest example of youth landing themselves in hot water because of their attachment to modern social media tools. There are cases of people being discovered for faking "sick days" at work after pictures of partying emerged on Facebook; cheating and infidelity have similarly been uncovered. "I think there's really been a breakdown in the sense of what is and isn't private," Mr. Ackerman said. "It's a very profound cultural development, let alone having legal ramifications." As for Mr. Rigenco, Const. Barmakov says the teenager readily admitted to his actions and has since shown remorse. "He obviously understands the dangerous behaviour and the consequences it could potentially result in," Const. Barmakov said. "He was actually glad he was stopped before something terrible would happen."
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08-12-2010, 08:11 AM	#2
and 1 winter mode 62 Rep 2,057 Posts Drives: 08 135i, 88 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Somerville, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2008 135i [7.50]	wow that's a bitch! kinda stupid tho, being so specific in a post like that __________________ 88 M3: BMWCCA J Sport 08 135: because streetcar
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08-12-2010, 08:19 AM	#3
SupremePower3335 Lieutenant 56 Rep 436 Posts Drives: 2011 335 MSport & 2018 X3 30i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	I have mixed feelings about this..yest it's dangerous and obsolutely he should not be doing it and bragging about it. HOWEVER police in Ontario are going too far. The current "street racing" law is too much. You all know how easy it is in these cars to do 150km on the hwy! I guess that's not what we are talking about though..140km in a resdential area is very stupid!
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08-12-2010, 08:33 AM	#4
1HungryMan Lieutenant 24 Rep 536 Posts Drives: 2008 128i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Far too many people are focusing on the stupidity of the kid rather than the OUTRAGEOUS precedent of charging someone based on "witnesses". Excuse me, he didn't commit murder, it was a speeding boast, and he wasn't caught doing it. And yet he was convicted. It is simply incredible. Was he a douchebag, endangering the lives of people? Apparently. But the idea of convicting someone based on an online boast, and some "witnesses" who saw him speed (do they have a radar gun?) is unreal and a complete abrogation of the rule of law. I would have hired Clayton Ruby and had that shit tossed out of court. Sometimes I can't even believe the manner in which police abuse their powers. If the kid was caught speeding at that level using a radar gun, I'd say "throw the book at him and keep our community safe"--but he wasn't.
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08-12-2010, 10:38 AM	#7
Dackelone European Editor 10539 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	The Police should have caught him red handed - in the act of speeding. I don't see how you can convict someone solely on an internet statement! Or even say an online video. What kind of Kangaroo courts do you guys have in Canada! What happened to being innocent before PROVEN guilty! Sure this kid is a moron... but what about our civill rights!
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08-12-2010, 10:44 AM	#8
fwmcb Major 31 Rep 1,107 Posts Drives: 2015 F30 328i X-drive Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NB iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 128i [0.00]	That's kind of messed up, how can they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed the crime, there was no one on scene with a radar gun able to confirm the speed he was traveling and confirm that he was in fact the driver of the vehicle. We've all seen some bright lights on here with some false claims. I just think that we are going the wrong way by convicting people in this manner. Anyone who commits such an offense if caught should likely in my opinion never be permitted to drive again.
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08-12-2010, 10:53 AM	#9
gavolant Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 212 Posts Drives: 2011 AW 135i M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Falls Church, VA iTrader: (0)	Do you think if someone confessed to a murder they are going to say "well we didn't see you do it, so have a nice day" ? __________________ 2011 AW 135i Coupe\|6MT\|Savanna Beige\|M Sport\|Navi Order Placed: July 26 \| Production Started: Aug 09 \| Production Complete: Aug 17 \|At Port: Aug 19 \| In Transit: Sept 02 \| At Prep Center: Sept 15 \| At Dealer: Sept 25
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08-12-2010, 11:10 AM	#10
Dackelone European Editor 10539 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	I don't believe speeding and murder are even in the same league! It is one thing to go after pedophile or rapists or murders via online... but convicting people of speeding on shear hear say or boasting is just plain wrong. No matter how fast he was claiming. Have you guys ever seen this dvd called: Vehicular Lunatics Talk about being reckless driving on the streets of Florida. But unless a cop see's them breaking a law... then nothing will be done to them. That is our judicial system like it or not. for some reason this embeded link doesn't work. Here is teh link to YouTube. [u2b]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnuhhbI-bXA?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnuhhbI-bXA?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b] Last edited by Dackelone; 08-12-2010 at 11:16 AM..
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08-12-2010, 11:28 AM	#12
gavolant Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 212 Posts Drives: 2011 AW 135i M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Falls Church, VA iTrader: (0)	My point wasn't to compare murder to speeding, just that admitting guilt can have its repercussions. I have received a ticket myself from a cop that was 'pacing' me, and even that doesn't hold up well in court. The point is that he basically admitted guilt, and though there is no substantial evidence or radar data, what is to be said when the judge reads his own quote? Sure there are ways out of what he said but it's still ridiculous to post this kind of stuff online, especially when you give a specific speed. __________________ 2011 AW 135i Coupe\|6MT\|Savanna Beige\|M Sport\|Navi Order Placed: July 26 \| Production Started: Aug 09 \| Production Complete: Aug 17 \|At Port: Aug 19 \| In Transit: Sept 02 \| At Prep Center: Sept 15 \| At Dealer: Sept 25 Last edited by gavolant; 08-12-2010 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: t
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08-12-2010, 12:33 PM	#15
larryn Lieutenant General 2146 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	To those of you making fun of the murder versus speeding analogy... Let's see people's "lists" of what illegal things that people boast of that you feel should be perfectly fine, and which are not. Damage to property? Ripping up a flower on their lawn compared to hit and run. Personal harm? Wrist slap versus whacking somebody with a 9 iron Driving? Improper non-use of a turn signal versus going 3.5 x the speed limit in a residential neighborhood Are you going to take intent or mood into account, extenuating circumstances (speeding to hospital versus street racing)? I'm glad this kid got busted, and think it was right. There cannot be 800 shades of gray.
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