Spy photos of the M1 / 1M in Sedona Red with completed front body work

[southlight]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

semantics - ultimately my point was that there was an established platform before the 2007 North American release dating back to 2004. The 2007 release of the 3 door iteration clearly benefited from a 3 year run of the 5 door model constituting, in my mind, more than a mid model refresh. I made this comparison to parallel the x6 evolution to an M model to counter a point earlier.

Ultimately my thesis is supported b/c the 2007 1 series does not represent the initial release and the 2004 model serves as a foundation from which future development could progress. If you read further back, I used the x5 and x6 M as examples. To expound, the X6 was built off of the new x5 chassis…just as a 3 door 1 series was built off of the 5 door (2004) example. The x6 M model was released within 18 months of the non-M variant and, as such, would continue a production run in excess of 4 years before a complete model change.

To reiterate (which is slightly irritating given your focus on semantics rather than the underlying point), the pending release of an F20 1 series in 2012 means that the potential of a 2011 1 series M would have, at most, a 2 year production run. This seems like a big investment for a short timeline. And, if you want to say an M6 is based on a 5 series platform that had been around for a few years, fine – then acknowledge that an M1 would be based on a 1 series platform that has been in production since 2004. That to me, seems strange given the historic efforts of the company to introduce M models quickly after the release of their non-M counterparts.

That’s all I was going for.

I see where you're coming from. You chose the word 'generation' loosely and rather meant to say that BMW would have had quite some time to develop an M version considering that the 1 series in general is existing since 2004 already. Point taken.

I think there's a reason why the M version comes that late, and it's the fact that it needed a new CEO at BMW M to take on this project. I'm about to gather all information that hint at an M version to update the sticky thread in this section, and I read the interview of the M CEO in the process again. He explicitly stated that it usually takes 3 years to develop an M car, but they still want to do this and try being more flexible to get this car ready for a launch in the Spring of 2011, and that was back in November 2009 without all the spy pictures and information.


Best regards,
south

[Smokey]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Amongst other items of evidence, you have to ask why does the car travel in convoy from Garching to the Nürburgring with the M5 and M3 GTS?
Why if it is an iS does the car travel from the M division , iS cars like the 335i and Z4 did not travel in such exclusive high performance company.

Like I said previously M Division cars test in phases, Each single aspect of the car is tested until absolute precision is achieved. An M car is more about performance and style it has to have substance that is why the Audi RS5 has not come off well against the M3.
Look at the M5 to see how development continues ,that is a car that is far from finished.

I will be seeing the car this week hopefully, as I was meant to see it last week until something came up , that is why I have not been frequent here this past week.

Thanks for your input on this, but some people are hell bent on calling this an IS, regardless of how much proof is offered to dismiss such view point. Some people will not believe it's an M until they see quad exhausts, side gills and the power dome, which are all cosmetics imo. Hope you'll have more update about the car once you see it this week.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

This is exactly why I'm getting frustrated - that is not my only point. Please reference earlier posts about the fact that producing a 1 series M that costs less than an M3 but is faster/more capable is a product cannibalization nightmare. Even if the new 1 series m only exists for 2 years, it would still wreck the current e9x M sales intended to continue through 2012 or 2013.

I'm done dealing with this fragmented posting....this will be my last rebuttal.

I dont think it would wreck e9x M sales. I've been in auto consulting for a few years and I'm not worried about that at all. Take a look these tuners that throw around 50-80hp at the N54. From the drag strip comparison data Insideline and similar posts the cars arent faster than a stock M3. Dont get me wrong, plenty on here added down pipes, etc. to make it just as fast if not faster. But my point is that its going to take more than a slight HP bump to make it faster than an M3.

At its fastest a stock M3 propels to 60mph in 4.1 sec and 12.5 in the quarter. The fastest 1er is 4.7 and 13.3. That is a lot of playing room IMO. BMW can bring it down to 4.3 and 12.7-8ish and a lot of us would be happy. We would have a much stronger engine that we can mod if need be.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

This is exactly why I'm getting frustrated - that is not my only point. Please reference earlier posts about the fact that producing a 1 series M that costs less than an M3 but is faster/more capable is a product cannibalization nightmare. Even if the new 1 series m only exists for 2 years, it would still wreck the current e9x M sales intended to continue through 2012 or 2013.

I'm done dealing with this fragmented posting....this will be my last rebuttal.

I am sorry you think it is fragmented--I just didn't respond to some of your other points because they seemed somewhat obvious.

For example--your "semantics" argument above is ridiculous. It is not "semantics" to point out that the 1 series underwent an LCI, not a complete model change, back in 2004.

I don't think M3 sales figures are part of the conversation either. We already know that there are roughly 10 3 series sold for every 1 series--it is already a niche platform. The M version will not sell as well as the M3, nor will it be intended to do so. Instead of "cannibalizing" M3 sales, the M1 will offer to those that want it a chance to return to the spiritual successor of the E46 M3, which will be the E8X M1. If you want more luxury, you spend more on the E9X M3. Simple as that.

"Official" announcements do not mean much either. BMW said there would never be an ///M Coupe in the previous generation, right? What happened there? The point is that there is a difference in what might be said versus what is seen. If this is to be testing of the next generation 1 series M, then where are the F20 coupe' spy shots? Or the F20 5 door version? We have only seen F20 spy shots for the 3 door version! You are telling me that they would put all of this work into an eventual ///M variant before the coupe' has even been spotted? That just doesn't make sense...

All of the videos and spy shots of the 2 M1 mules make it pretty clear to me how it will go....I too, am done with this argument. I will gladly eat my crow if this turns out to be an IS model, but it just doesn't seem possible at this point in the game....

Originally Posted by auggiem3

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

If this is to be testing of the next generation 1 series M, then where are the F20 coupe' spy shots? Or the F20 5 door version? We have only seen F20 spy shots for the 3 door version! You are telling me that they would put all of this work into an eventual ///M variant before the coupe' has even been spotted? That just doesn't make sense...

Thats not what I'm telling you - try reading again.

[auggiem3]

Also, I'm not the only one...take a look at 4/20/2010 Left Lane News article....not an argument for or against, just more evidence of confusion.

BMW 1-Series “M” spied and illustrated

Posted By Mark Kleis On April20 @ 4:24 pm In BMW, Convertible, Coupe, Future Cars, High-Performance, Luxury, Top-Stories | 22 Comments



The rumors of an upcoming performance version of BMW’s 1-Series have been rampant for well over a year, with “sources” saying BMW would make an M1, while others have said they wouldn’t. Whatever moniker BMW intends to use, our latest exclusive spy photos show that they certainly intend to use something to designate this wide-body 1-Series Coupe as a performance model above the 135i.


Leftlane’s spies have managed to capture several sets of photos of this high-performance BMW 1-Series in testing while at Nurburgring, and now we have a fresh set of spy photos and an exclusive rendering of the next hot coupe to come from BMW.

The spy photos and illustration clearly show off the wide-body fenders front and rear, including an aggressive front spoiler, larger wheels and massive brakes with drilled discs – all pointing to a 1-Series M, or other high-performance 1-Series model.

While BMW itself has the subcompact premium market nicely covered with the twin-turbo, in-line six-cylinder 135i (and even the 123d for Europe) coupe, highly-placed sources insist the next-generation 1-Series will have a high-speed M flagship. Judging by our spy photos, it appears as if the sources may be leading on to the truth.

The baby M should line up against the next Audi S3, which would pitch its pricing at around the €35,000 mark in Europe, or probably $10,000 less than the next-generation M3 in North America.

With M now headed by former Mini brand manager Kay Segler, the idea of a hotter two-door has taken root in M division, with Segler insisting: “The priority right now is a more affordable model underneath the M3.”

It’s not likely to carry over the M3’s screaming V8 engine, though. Sources tell Leftlanethat it will probably develop the 135i’s straight-six to punch out around the 330 hp mark. Because the power increase is fairly marginal at 30 extra hp over the 300 hp BMW 135i, this 1-Series M product will likely not sport the traditional “M” badging. In addition to not quite being up to the level of standards typically associated with the M badging, there is also a historical naming conflict coming into play.

“The M1 name to us is a sacred thing for a car that marked an important turning point. It won’t be called the M1,” a source told Leftlane.

Instead, as many sources have suggested, this performance coupe may likely be known as the 1-Series M. If the 1-Series model seen testing in these spy photos does not wear an “M” badge when it reaches production, we expect the next logical choice to be the 135is based on the same N54 twin-turbocharged engine found on the BMW Z4 sDrive35is.

[auggiem3]

Or motor trend from 4/08/2010

Spycam: BMW 1 Series M?
The Smallest Bavarian Bruiser Caught in the Wild
April 08, 2010

Reports of an M high performance version of the BMW 1 Series go back at least a year, but no tangible evidence of the car has actually surfaced. Our spy photographers have finally captured what is believed to be a prototype of a higher spec 1 in the wild, although signs point to it being more of a trim level update than a true M car.

BMW’s M division has been signaling for some time that it would like to do a sporty version of the diminutive 1 Series, but very little detail has been revealed about the potential car. To this day, no one even knows for certain what the car might be called, though “M1” has pretty much been ruled out. BMW has indicated that it will not be called M1, and most BMW fanatics would consider it heresy against the original M1 supercar. There are rumors that a true M1 successor could return in the future based on the Vision concept from last year's Frankfurt Motor Show. “1 Series M” is the current best guess.



The 1 is currently capped by the 135i model and its 300-horsepower 3.0-liter turbocharged inline-six engine, so any M version would have to beat that. BMW has signaled that it plans to downsize all of the engines in its next generation of vehicles and rely on forced induction to make up the power difference. To that end, we’ve heard that the 1 Series M will likely use a turbocharged four-cylinder engine as BMW attempts to recaptures some of the magic that made the original E30 M3 such a hit. BMW M Division's Ludwig Willisch CEO told us last year that his team is targeting a sub 2900-pound curb weight for the car, so power numbers don’t need to be stratospheric. Willisch also said that the car would need “at least 300 horsepower.”

Work on BMW's next generation of turbocharged engines is likely still in its infancy at this point, so there’s no way of knowing what’s beneath the hood of the car you see here. Above the hood, though, there’s plenty to talk about. Despite BMW’s headache-inducing camouflage, a large front spoiler and big, bulging fenders are clear to see. Those massive fenders are more than just aesthetic enhancements, as they’re needed to contain those giant wheels. The big wheels are likewise necessary to contain massive cross-drilled brakes. We can only guess at suspension enhancements, but we’re sure they’re there.



Like so much else to do with the 1 Series M, the car's timeline is mostly a mystery at this point. Willisch indicated during last year's interview that an M version of the current generation car wouldn't be developed, which leads us to believe this car won't be it. BMW is working out solutions for the latest modifications to emissions and fuel-economy standards that were just recently announced, so engine development likely still has a way to go.

According to Willisch, we probably won’t see a 1 Series M until 2014 or so if at all. More likely, the car pictured here is an 135is version along the lines of the Z4 and 335 models recently released. We



Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/spi...#ixzz0msd3pChO

[BForbes]

What was the purpose of posting those long articles? I've read each of them many times. They are not BMW-focused websites. All they do is rehash and interpret what other blogs are saying as their own work. Their scope is too broad. I recall WCF and Leftlane posting pics of an X1 saying was an X3. Scott came on laughing at such a mistake. They all ended up retracting it. Most BMW-focused websites have more or less realized than an M version is coming. IMO, there are 3 of them where the body of information has been stellar. These vehicles are already featuring things iS cars do not early in the mule stages. We're not pretending that all of our questions are answered because they're not. You say you wish you are wrong but make it your mission to dispute every physical piece of info pointing towards an M car.

Write down everything the iS car features inside and out. Write down where it was tested. Write down what other cars it was tested with. Then write down what we've seen so far with these mules. It is too hard to ignore that it is on a whole other level. How can M/T say "along the lines of an iS?"

Hurry up and update that page, Southlight!

Originally Posted by BForbes

Answer us one more question:

AuggieM3, what will one of these mules have to have to convince you before the press-release that this is indeed an M car?

I ask this b/c the 335iS spy shots did not have any form of Carbon Fiber on the roof as most of these mules have amongst others. This looks like an M to me!! :-D

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Answer us one more question:

What will one of these mules have to have to convince you before the press-release that this is indeed an M car?

I ask this b/c the 335iS spy shots did not have any form of Carbon Fiber on the roof as most of these mules have amongst others. This looks like an M to me!! :-D

An OE M badge affixed to the rear.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

An OE M badge affixed to the rear.

We know that won't happen in the mule stage. All of the BMW symbols must be removed at this stage--someone mentioned before that the requirement is per German law.

So you won't see an ///M badge anytime soon....

[and 1]

Every picture I see just makes me want to see more

[sid33]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Amongst other items of evidence, you have to ask why does the car travel in convoy from Garching to the Nürburgring with the M5 and M3 GTS?
Why if it is an iS does the car travel from the M division , iS cars like the 335i and Z4 did not travel in such exclusive high performance company.

Like I said previously M Division cars test in phases, Each single aspect of the car is tested until absolute precision is achieved. An M car is more about performance and style it has to have substance that is why the Audi RS5 has not come off well against the M3.
Look at the M5 to see how development continues ,that is a car that is far from finished.

I will be seeing the car this week hopefully, as I was meant to see it last week until something came up , that is why I have not been frequent here this past week.

Scott as always thank you ... I gotta admit I love the way Scott practically spells these things out for us ..

I think we can say its an M car

[jabwind51]

Originally Posted by sid33

Scott as always thank you ... I gotta admit I love the way Scott practically spells these things out for us ..

I think we can say its an M car

anyone see those seats? those are definitely NOT original seats. M seats!

[adrean8j]

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

We know that won't happen in the mule stage. All of the BMW symbols must be removed at this stage--someone mentioned before that the requirement is per German law.

So you won't see an ///M badge anytime soon....

Just trying to infuse a little levity...

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by sid33

Scott as always thank you ... I gotta admit I love the way Scott practically spells these things out for us ..

I think we can say its an M car

I'm sure Scott is just as frustrated with all this back and fourth nonsense.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Yes, they must be doing it to irritate you. It couldn't possibly be cause they have their own opinion that happens to be different from yours and they have come to these forums to express that opinion......couldn't be that.

Cheers,
e46e92

Yes, that's true - but to me it is obvious, and it is to do with individual personalities.
a) We know the test mules are not complete cars, and the missing parts can potentially come later and the missing body panels are indeed their camo
b) We know BMW will not create ANY new body panels apart from the spoilers, diffusers and side skirts for a 'is' version.
c) We know there will not be a LSD unless the test mule is a significant car above the 135i
d) If this is not a ///M or tii or whatever they will call it, it is being used for a test. However, why did they complete the flares for such a project?

I can say that there are possibilites this might not be a ///M (although it is certainly pointing to the 1 series ///M). I can certainly tell you it won't be an 'IS'.

Really, it just illustrates those people are just non-believers, they will go out and find things to prove why something is not, but rather than looking at what something is.

[twenzel]

One thing is for sure, if M wanted to stay true to functional motorsports, putting a cosmetic quad tip exhaust on a Single turbo inline 6, makes no sense at all. I actually prefer the single side exhaust.

[roundel]

Originally Posted by twenzel

One thing is for sure, if M wanted to stay true to functional motorsports, putting a cosmetic quad tip exhaust on a Single turbo inline 6, makes no sense at all. I actually prefer the single side exhaust.

If they put quads on it's a //M car otherwise "is" or "tii"...

[Robert]

Auggie's first post actually contradicts his point. The writer was fairly confident of the baby M. His only qualm is the moniker of the model. If we are arguing about that then this convo is useless as the rest of the threads on what will it be named

[sid33]

Originally Posted by jabwind51

anyone see those seats? those are definitely NOT original seats. M seats!

I agree ... The seats , the steering wheel and even the gauge needles all look to be M ... I cant believe that these M parts etc would be put in on a test mule if it wasnt for a reason. Its not like BMW is saying "hey lets go to the M division and get some left over parts and stick em in there" for no good reason

Its coming together now ...

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by Robert

Auggie's first post actually contradicts his point. The writer was fairly confident of the baby M. His only qualm is the moniker of the model. If we are arguing about that then this convo is useless as the rest of the threads on what will it be named

Really? I interpreted this section a little differently than you....

"It’s not likely to carry over the M3’s screaming V8 engine, though. Sources tell Leftlanethat it will probably develop the 135i’s straight-six to punch out around the 330 hp mark. Because the power increase is fairly marginal at 30 extra hp over the 300 hp BMW 135i, this 1-Series M product will likely not sport the traditional “M” badging. In addition to not quite being up to the level of standards typically associated with the M badging, there is also a historical naming conflict coming into play."

IMO the writer was saying that this car wouldn't be good enough to justify an M which indicates that the model is not simple an M without the badge.