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      12-15-2007, 08:47 AM   #67
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ARES45,
You should be able to find more than you want to know at E90Post.com:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58
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      12-15-2007, 08:52 AM   #68
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Thank you, much appreciated mikeo.
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      12-15-2007, 08:56 AM   #69
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Thank you, much appreciated mikeo.
Happy to provide a little help to someone serving our country!
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      12-15-2007, 08:59 AM   #70
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Not a problem, this country and its people are worth it.

I am still having problems locating specific threads about how long it would take the average person to pull their chip and leave no trace for a dealer

Sorry for the thread highjacking, but I don't like starting new threads for simple questions.
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      12-15-2007, 02:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ARES45 View Post
Not a problem, this country and its people are worth it.

I am still having problems locating specific threads about how long it would take the average person to pull their chip and leave no trace for a dealer

Sorry for the thread highjacking, but I don't like starting new threads for simple questions.

It's not a CHIP! It's a piggy back and it takes no more than 5 min to remove something liike a PROcede.

Dinan is a Flash to your ECU.. nothing to install or remove!
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      12-15-2007, 02:18 PM   #72
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Yes I know Garret, thank you though.
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      12-15-2007, 03:12 PM   #73
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Me, quoting me:

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Originally Posted by AJ~ View Post
There are many ways of avoiding liability. Like: "for off-road use only" or just look at what Mitsubishi did with Evo owners. They didn't cover drivetrain failures for people they could prove were engaged in racing.

What is the replacement cost (engine price and labor) for a factory new N54?

I predict that Dinan won't be replacing or paying for any motor that is destroyed after installing Dinan's sofware. You assume the risk; you are on your own.
I found this on e90post.com, posted by "bimmermans54" on 12-10-2007:

"You get a dinan warranty. If your motor goes boom, they will make up any excuse not to cover it. You over revved, you beat on the car too much and it overheated, You will see, I been there done that. It was their disgretion not to fix my car.(e36 m3) I am still waiting 5 years later for an answer, after I had to pay to get the car fixed. It is up to them, if they for any reason say no, your done. BMW will not even look at you. AND BMW has their own performance division, so Dinan is basically out the door. Wow, this warranty crap really has people fooled. Wake up people..."

Link (read page 3): http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=100600&page=3
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      12-18-2007, 11:57 AM   #74
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People, please go read Dinan's site for more details on the 335i upgrade. There is a very important part of the upgrade that I think eveyone is overlooking: OIL COOLER REQUIRED.

Although they say stock cooler will do, Dinan has got a much bigger oil cooler to keep the engine healthy and they seem to be strongly recommending it with the flash upgrade.

http://www.dinancars.com/Series.asp?...s=42&Model=118
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      12-18-2007, 12:06 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasBimmer View Post
People, please go read Dinan's site for more details on the 335i upgrade. There is a very important part of the upgrade that I think eveyone is overlooking: OIL COOLER REQUIRED.

Although they say stock cooler will do, Dinan has got a much bigger oil cooler to keep the engine healthy and they seem to be strongly recommending it with the flash upgrade.

http://www.dinancars.com/Series.asp?...s=42&Model=118
2 grand for an oil cooler?! Seriously? I like the idea of an upgraded oil cooler anyway... but $2000? Hopefully another shop will release something similar for a sane amount.
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      12-19-2007, 04:30 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ~ View Post
Me, quoting me:



I found this on e90post.com, posted by "bimmermans54" on 12-10-2007:

"You get a dinan warranty. If your motor goes boom, they will make up any excuse not to cover it. You over revved, you beat on the car too much and it overheated, You will see, I been there done that. It was their disgretion not to fix my car.(e36 m3) I am still waiting 5 years later for an answer, after I had to pay to get the car fixed. It is up to them, if they for any reason say no, your done. BMW will not even look at you. AND BMW has their own performance division, so Dinan is basically out the door. Wow, this warranty crap really has people fooled. Wake up people..."

Link (read page 3): http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=100600&page=3
It most likely had nothing to do with the software upgrade. The software upgrade for a e36 m3 is nothing, something like 10-12 hp. This guy probably had all kinds of aftermarket products on his car and Dinan wasn't about to pay for something they didn't cause.

My best friend had a e36 M3 he bought brand new, never put any mods on the vehicle, after owning two years the engine blew. He was downshifting on the freeway and boom then silence. Pulled off the freeway in limp mode and flashing lights on the dash. The BMW techs said the car over-revved because of a mis-shift and refused to replace the engine. My friend paid something like $15,000 for a new engine. Long story short BMW can screw you too.
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      12-19-2007, 09:12 AM   #77
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That example is the infamous "you abused the car -- missed-shift over-rev" (also classified as doing something stupid). Really now, when we make a driver error and run into a tree do we expect BMW to cover the damage?

I'm not calling your friend stupid -- we all do dumb things in life, and some of them can be expensive when we have to take responsibility for them.

Flame suit on...
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      12-19-2007, 10:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo View Post
That example is the infamous "you abused the car -- over-rev" (also classified as doing something stupid). Really now, when we make a driver error and run into a tree do we expect BMW to cover the damage?

I'm not calling your friend stupid -- we all do dumb things in life, and some of them can be expensive when we have to take responsibility for them.

Flame suit on...
I'm in agreement with mikeo. You really shouldnt buy an expensive manual transmission car if you dont know what the hell your doing. My .02
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      12-19-2007, 12:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
I'm in agreement with mikeo. You really shouldnt buy an expensive manual transmission car if you dont know what the hell your doing. My .02
true but the e36 were infamous for miss shifting. once the linkage started to ware it was easy to mistake 3rd for 5th especially in high adrenaline instances. but it is still driver error
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      12-19-2007, 02:55 PM   #80
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It was a common driver error. And a lot of people had to pony up for repairs, usually a top end rebuild due to bent valves (most BMW motors are known as "interference engines" because the piston top is capable of contacting the valves if things aren't timed just right). It's definitely not a good idea to float the valves on an over-rev.
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      12-19-2007, 03:41 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo View Post
It was a common driver error. And a lot of people had to pony up for repairs, usually a top end rebuild due to bent valves (most BMW motors are known as "interference engines" because the piston top is capable of contacting the valves if things aren't timed just right). It's definitely not a good idea to float the valves on an over-rev.
Thats really my whole, it shoots down that idiots report about Dinans warranties being useless. He most likely blew his engine due to driver error, not a 12hp software upgrade. If you met my friend, he is a hyper son of a bitch, he beats the hell out of his cars. After one year his 996 looked like it was 10 years old.
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      12-19-2007, 03:55 PM   #82
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... If you met my friend, he is a hyper son of a bitch, he beats the hell out of his cars. After one year his 996 looked like it was 10 years old.
Then I gues he got what he deserved. Too bad he doesn't take better care of his expensive machinery though.
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      12-19-2007, 03:59 PM   #83
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What do you give up for the increase in horsepower? I'm speculating:

Peakier torque curve
increase in lag
decrease in reliability (long term)
decrease in fuel economy

I'm also speculating these are the reasons that when BMW did their own tune, they didn't put this software on it. I doubt they would intentionally leave 80+hp on the table just because.

Also, how does the dinan flash give increased throttle response? Again, why wouln't BMW do this? They spent years developing this engine and the associated ECU. Must be a reason.
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      12-19-2007, 04:41 PM   #84
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john970,
Watch here for information regarding your speculations:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58
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      12-20-2007, 06:48 AM   #85
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I have used Dinan in the past on several cars. The price vs gain has always been very low with them.

Any reflash that costs more than $300 is suspect in my mind. $2k is absurd.

I'll wait, there will be many more available real soon.
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      12-20-2007, 08:30 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
I have used Dinan in the past on several cars. The price vs gain has always been very low with them.

Any reflash that costs more than $300 is suspect in my mind. $2k is absurd.

I'll wait, there will be many more available real soon.


How many more companies do you think will pay the royalties to have access to BMW ECU's..?

Thats why most went with "piggyback". Turner Motorsports already hase access because they tune their own cars do to their racing them. DINAN has always worked real close with BMW technicians.

How many more ECU flashes do you see comming down the pipe...?

Given the fact that most people WILL have the flash done at a BMW dealer... there is nothing to hide. If that causes dmg to your car... it's no different than a piggyback doing it.

Do you think removing it after some catostrophic f ailure going to mean BMW is ignorant of what causes it...?







-Garrett
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      12-20-2007, 08:41 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john970 View Post
What do you give up for the increase in horsepower? I'm speculating:
Peakier torque curve - Allowing the stock turbos a higher boost limit will cause a bigger torque spike. Thats why you see the dinan numbers have over 400ftlbs but only 380hp... peak torque happens way before peak hp. Torque spikes in low rpms can break things if the internals cant take it. The N54 probably will have no problem with it.

increase in lag - technically there should be NO increase in lag. Its not like you swapped out turbos. It will have the same spool. It will reach 8psi as fast as ****** car. But it will also keep boosting past 8psi. Maybe that is perceived as increased lag?

decrease in reliability (long term) - definite yes

decrease in fuel economy - all depends on how you drive your car. My guess is that if you flash your ECU, you have no intentions of doddling around without boosting
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      12-20-2007, 10:52 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
How many more companies do you think will pay the royalties to have access to BMW ECU's..?

Thats why most went with "piggyback". Turner Motorsports already hase access because they tune their own cars do to their racing them. DINAN has always worked real close with BMW technicians.

How many more ECU flashes do you see comming down the pipe...?

Given the fact that most people WILL have the flash done at a BMW dealer... there is nothing to hide. If that causes dmg to your car... it's no different than a piggyback doing it.

Do you think removing it after some catostrophic f ailure going to mean BMW is ignorant of what causes it...?


-Garrett
I have heard it before but havent seen anything on dinan website, so you are clainming the BMWAG gives dinan their ECU firmware? Or at least the tables to modify? Any link for more info on this.

TIA
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