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      11-16-2018, 12:33 PM   #1
Audun
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Wield marks on battery (weird error codes)

Hey all. Just got my first BMW 1 series 2004 model.
I brought it from 2 hours distance, and it drove fine. Started and stopped 2 times. No problems.

But unfortunately the next day on the first drive I got to drive 500 meters and then it stopped. It was struggling to start this day. But it started after taking the key out and in.
After it stopped I could hear it had battery power and I could hear it trying to start. But it would never 'bite'. It was put on a local mechanic (non-bmw) for diagnostics.

They couldn't understand why it behaved like this.
They noticed wielding marks on the pluss battery pole, and thought it might not send clean signals around, and or it has shocked the system. They have no idea. The battery was 60ah, and they said it should be 55ah, but that shouldn't be a big difference. Searching this forum for answers, I only understand that registering the right battery, with the right numbers is important.

They wrote:
Possible fault with sparkmodule for steering unit.

Here's they're diagnostics:

Motronic ME 9.2 (4) 1
2B9A Steering Unit-memory fault Memory fault
ESP Teves MK60 E50 5
5E1A CAN-message Motor steering unit Signal error
D355 CAN-komm. to engine steering unit Error
el. ref. mot.mom. /via CAN from ASR/ESP)
D354 CAN-komm. to engine steering unit Error
el. ref. mot.mom. /via CAN from ASR/ESP)
5DF4 Battery current Too low current
Airbag AB 9.0 1
93D0 Net current Undercurrent
Combi instrument. 3.0 2
A3AD CAN-Message from steering engine Missing message
: Engine data
A3AE CAN-message RPM regulation Missing message
SE, passangerside 2.0 4
A6D0 LiquidCooling compressor - Error
reg, valve
A6CF Hazardparticle sensor (AUC) Error
C90B CAN-communication Error
A6D1 Extra waterpump, for -/coupe Error
heater
SE drivers side 2.0 2
9CCD Charging protection for battery Disconnected parking lights
9CCE Batterycharging Charge the battery completely
Climate autom.m Comfort 2.0 5
Motronic ME 9.2 (4) 2
2B9A Steeringunit-memory fault Memory fault
2F44 Startsperre Error
ESP Teves MK60 E5 4
5E1A CAN-message motor steering unit Signal error
D356 CAN-comm. to steering engine unit faulty signal
D355 CAN-comm. to steering unit. el.
ref. Mot.mom. (via CAN from ASR/ESP) Error
Combiinstru. 3.0 2
A3AD CAN-message from engine steering: Missing message
Motordata
A3AE CAN-message RPM regulation Missing message
SE, passangerside 2.0 3
A6CF Hazardparticle sensor (AUC) Error
A6D1 Extra waterpump, till, -/ Error
coupe warmer
A6D0 Liquid cooling compressor Error
- reg valve
Climate automm., comfort 2.0 4
E717 communication with engine - message error
steering unit
E71B Communication with engine - message error
steering unit
E720 Communication with electronic message error
battery controls
E71A Communication with engine- message error
steering unit
E717 Communication with engine- message error
steering unit
E71A Communication with engine- message error
Steering unit
E720 Communication with electronic message error
Battery controls
9C6C Netcurrent for lower controlpanel (12V) Faulty
EZS 2.0 3
A0BE output clamp 15 (1) Error
A0BF output clamp 15 (2) Error
A0C0 Output clamp 15 (3) Error
Lydbetjeningselement 3.0 1
E1D2 Communication with engine steering Faulty



What would you make of all this??!


Thank you so much for ANY insight/experiences!
I guess I have to claim the bill covered from the seller for BMW mechs to fix all this. We have a 2 year used car right of claim, for any unknown issues that wasn't stated.
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      11-20-2018, 02:33 PM   #2
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Might be a battery issue.

How can I check what is the appropriate battery ah?

The shop said the car is supposed to be 55ah, and what's in it now is 60ah. Where do I find that info? It's not in the manual.
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      11-20-2018, 04:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
Might be a battery issue.

How can I check what is the appropriate battery ah?

The shop said the car is supposed to be 55ah, and what's in it now is 60ah. Where do I find that info? It's not in the manual.
This site might help. However, having a higher rated battery than original shouldn't cause these problems. Maybe the battery is weak? A failing battery often makes a lot of issues.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select
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      11-20-2018, 05:07 PM   #4
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1. the difference in amp hour rating is not important and/or causing you your problem.
2. the welding on the positive post is most likely someone using "jumper/booster" cables incorrectly.
3. you really need find a mechanic who knows these cars well.
4. a brand new battery often solves many problems ( or an almost new battery that's fully charged)
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      11-22-2018, 03:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
This site might help. However, having a higher rated battery than original shouldn't cause these problems. Maybe the battery is weak? A failing battery often makes a lot of issues.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select
Wow. Thanks man. I'm a noob. Don't know that site. That's awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernDancer View Post
1. the difference in amp hour rating is not important and/or causing you your problem.
2. the welding on the positive post is most likely someone using "jumper/booster" cables incorrectly.
3. you really need find a mechanic who knows these cars well.
4. a brand new battery often solves many problems ( or an almost new battery that's fully charged)
Yes that sounds about right. Good catch on the booster cables. Don't know if the shop didn't catch this. Battery vendors also think it was weird to say it needs to be the right ah. Somehow they said my car is supposed to be 55ah.

I guess registering the battery correctly and setting it up wouldn't cause this either.

Other people mention maybe dynamo/alternator or battery.


Do you guys have other sources on how to check/fix your own car?
I bought the Haynes book on this car, it's on it's way. Would like to get to know it, and possibly fix things myself.
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      11-22-2018, 04:57 PM   #6
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First... make a video of the problem with the engine starting in the morning.
Second... take some pics of those weird marks on the battery terminals.

Third... get a scan tool that can read BMW codes and not just a generic scan tool. You can buy the app BMW Carly or BMWhat for your phone and a OBDII dongle to go into the car's diagnostic OBDII port.


Sounds to me that your engine cranks but doesn't fire. Right ?

Could be the HPFP(High Pressure Fuel Pump), that tends to give your LONG cranks. IF so also replace the fuel pressure sender/switch under the intake manifold as well. US spec cars had the HPFP covered under an extended warranty. RoW cars don't qualify... but its a known problem area. The fuel injectors are also known to go bad. You must replace them in sets of three. Preferably all six at once. I think #12 is the latest version of injectors.

How old are the spark plugs ? Older than 30K miles(50K kms) just go and replace them. Maybe the coils too bc car with over 80K miles the coils tend to fail. You might just want to change the engine oil bc you don't know how long its been in there and it could be saturated with unburt gasoline from short drives or a bad spark plug/coil or injector.


Once the engine does "catch" or "fire" how does the engine idle ? I seriously doubt your car battery is bad or that your "steering unit" is the cause. Buy a scan tool. Log all the fault codes, then clear them and see what fault codes comes back.

Dackel
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      11-22-2018, 05:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
First... make a video of the problem with the engine starting in the morning.
Second... take some pics of those weird marks on the battery terminals.

Third... get a scan tool that can read BMW codes and not just a generic scan tool. You can buy the app BMW Carly or BMWhat for your phone and a OBDII dongle to go into the car's diagnostic OBDII port.


Sounds to me that your engine cranks but doesn't fire. Right ?

Could be the HPFP(High Pressure Fuel Pump), that tends to give your LONG cranks. IF so also replace the fuel pressure sender/switch under the intake manifold as well. US spec cars had the HPFP covered under an extended warranty. RoW cars don't qualify... but its a known problem area. The fuel injectors are also known to go bad. You must replace them in sets of three. Preferably all six at once. I think #12 is the latest version of injectors.

How old are the spark plugs ? Older than 30K miles(50K kms) just go and replace them. Maybe the coils too bc car with over 80K miles the coils tend to fail. You might just want to change the engine oil bc you don't know how long its been in there and it could be saturated with unburt gasoline from short drives or a bad spark plug/coil or injector.


Once the engine does "catch" or "fire" how does the engine idle ? I seriously doubt your car battery is bad or that your "steering unit" is the cause. Buy a scan tool. Log all the fault codes, then clear them and see what fault codes comes back.

Dackel
The engine starts without hesitation,(around 1 second) idles for 2 minutes with the 'arrow' just above 1 rpm. And after 2 minutes, it goes slightly below 1. 'Relaxing' a bit more.

Those battery marks is as NorthernDancer said, booster clamp spark marks. Dark grey "clay". It sits on top of the pluss pole, and the clamp is clamped on tight. Don't know if the grey "clay" has 'run down' the pole. Don't dare to take it off as that resets the electrical system.(I'll take a picture but it really seems to be on the top.)

I'm looking into getting foxwell BMW scanner. Trying to find it in my language. But got a reply it isn't possible. Even installing language afterwards.
FOXWELL NT510 OBD2 Scan Tool.

The codes after deletion is the same codes re-appearing. The shop got it all over again. If I'm not mistaken.

The engine cranks fine now, it fires. But It might stop sporadically as it did the first time driving it.

From the getgo:
The very first attempt to start, it didn't start.
I took out the key and put it back in, did this repeatedly without it starting (pushing the start button ofcourse)
Suddenly it started, and drove for 500 meters, and suddenly jittered in the middle of a roundabout(Maybe it's a coincidence, but in a sharp turn it stopped.)
I drained the battery after many attempts of trying to start it. Might be a coincidence, but as I pressed harder and more assertive it gave attempts to fire. Not when I pressed 'soft'. Took it to the shop, they charged the battery, it was flat, they fired it up normally, took it for a relative long drive. No problems. They let it sit in the shop and occationally start it now and then. It started fine. Suddenly it wouldn't start. They never mentioned if it gave a bite or if it was 'flat'. All of a sudden they get to start, 6 times every now and then after eachother. I pick it up and suprisingly drive it home(1000 meters) It has started with no problems after that. But I don't dare to drive it.
The battery measures 12.48V with a multimeter without the car running. And when the car is running 14.79V.

Something seems to mess with start stop function, or as you mention. Thanks for all the details. That was good parts to check out.

Don't know how old the spark plugs are, might be a while. The car is at 200 000km. The previous owner just changed the engine oil, at least that's what they SAID. Mechanic guy, don't have it documented. I hope this car has an oil checker.

Last edited by Audun; 11-22-2018 at 05:49 PM..
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      11-22-2018, 06:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
...Something seems to mess with start stop function, or as you mention. Thanks for all the details. That was good parts to check out.

Ohh Wait!! You have a 1er Hatch... a F20 or F2X(two or four door hatch) 116i.

I thought you have a 135i coupe.


Something still sounds strange about your battery not holding a charge enough to start the car. Did your shop test the battery ? BMW's can do weird stuff when the battery starts to go bad. I know you stated the battery standing voltage and with the engine on... but it could just be a bad battery or battery terminal? (check the battery ground cable for resistance).

With BMW Carly you can code off the start stop to remember the last used setting.

Good Luck,
Dackel
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      11-23-2018, 10:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Ohh Wait!! You have a 1er Hatch... a F20 or F2X(two or four door hatch) 116i.

I thought you have a 135i coupe.


Something still sounds strange about your battery not holding a charge enough to start the car. Did your shop test the battery ? BMW's can do weird stuff when the battery starts to go bad. I know you stated the battery standing voltage and with the engine on... but it could just be a bad battery or battery terminal? (check the battery ground cable for resistance).

With BMW Carly you can code off the start stop to remember the last used setting.

Good Luck,
Dackel
Yes 4 door Hatch 116i, I thought this model was named E87?

BMW also mentioned check grounding cables. The one inside the battery trunk is a bit corroded where the bolt is. Is this sensitive to cold weather? Because it just turned really cold here. Will anything 'reset' If I polish/scrub/tidy up around the battery ground? How do I check the battery ground cable for resistance? Yes I'm a noob I have a multimeter.

And are those felt rings I saw on youtube just a silly thing? Or does it indeed help with corrosion? Felt washers.

I just noticed the battery lamp doesn't light up(if it even has one?) As a youtuber mentioned. It should light up when the key is in, it doesn't.

Annoying problem but necessary to learn this stuff actually.

Last edited by Audun; 11-23-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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      11-23-2018, 11:17 AM   #10
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Images... Can't see the ground here. Silly me thought it was the red one :P Jeez
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      11-23-2018, 01:01 PM   #11
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Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but, it looks like you don't have an IBS. I think they are on the negative cable.
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      11-23-2018, 01:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but, it looks like you don't have an IBS. I think they are on the negative cable.
Riiiiiight. Just saw that in a video, no you're right. There's nothing on there. What's IBS short for, and what does it do?

Could it break the current, if information isn't sent back from the battery?

Just so damn strange the previous owner supposedly have driven with this with no problem.
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      11-23-2018, 02:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
Riiiiiight. Just saw that in a video, no you're right. There's nothing on there. What's IBS short for, and what does it do?

Could it break the current, if information isn't sent back from the battery?

Just so damn strange the previous owner supposedly have driven with this with no problem.
It stands for Intelligent Battery Sensor. Rather than me try to explain (probably incorrectly) read this. I'm not sure your car is even supposed to have IBS.

https://www.youcanic.com/guide/bmw-i...battery-sensor


The first thing I would do is have the battery load tested. A good voltage readout alone doesn't necessarily indicate the battery is ok.

If the battery tests good it sounds like you need to take the car to a mechanic that knows BMW's. Also, as mentioned already, think hard about getting an oil change if you're not sure it was done recently.
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      11-23-2018, 04:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
Yes 4 door Hatch 116i, I thought this model was named E87?
You are correct. I was thinking your 1er was newer than 2004. Yep, you have am e87.



Quote:
BMW also mentioned check grounding cables. The one inside the battery trunk is a bit corroded where the bolt is. Is this sensitive to cold weather? Because it just turned really cold here. Will anything 'reset' If I polish/scrub/tidy up around the battery ground? How do I check the battery ground cable for resistance? Yes I'm a noob I have a multimeter.
Looks to me that your positive(red) battery cable has some brown corrosion on the cable where it goes down under the car and up front to the engine area.

You can check your grounds by using a VOM(volt ohm meter) set it on DCvolts... with the battery still hocked up to the car(like it always is)... put one VOM lead on the battery ground... and the other on a chassis ground stud... have someone crank the engine over... you should not have MORE than ONE DCvolt(on the ground circuit). IF your VOM has a "Peak & Hold" function... you can do this test by yourself.

The cold weather makes things harder on corroded cables & car batteries.

The only thing that will reset is your clock/radio presets, and IF you have an transmission the adaptive learning(but once your drive the car for a hour or two... that will be relearned)

Some various 1er batteries... you can clearly see how the second pic has nothing on the brown ground cable at the battery. I think some EU cars might not get every BMW option feature. IBS, etc...

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Quote:



And are those felt rings I saw on YouTube just a silly thing? Or does it indeed help with corrosion? Felt washers.
Those felt pads on the car battery posts help reduce corrosion at the battery posts/terminals. They do work. But our car's batteries have a out gassing vent tube on the side of the battery(or your's should) that help vent battery fumes. IF your car has an AGM battery... you won't have a vent tube.

I think all that brown corrosion on your positive terminal could be your problem. I would disconnect the car battery and get some baking soda/water, first to neutralize the area and then some Coke/Dr Peper(NOT diet!) bc the acid in soda can clean corrosion very well(you can also buy Automotive products to clean battery corrosion too)... and a wire brush and clean the cable ends.

Maybe also get a battery terminal cleaning wire brush to clean your battery terminals while you are at it.

You might also take a peak under the intake manifold where the starter lives... and look at the battery cables there too.



Quote:

I just noticed the battery lamp doesn't light up(if it even has one?) As a youtuber mentioned. It should light up when the key is in, it doesn't.

Annoying problem but necessary to learn this stuff actually.
That is how most car's charging systems work. No battery light on engine key on(before you crank the engine) than your alternator might not be charging the car battery(bc the idiot lamp completes the charging circuit for the alternator). But I am not sure IF that is how our 1er's work... bc new BMW's have an Intelligent Charging System, where the battery only gets charged by the alternator as engine rev's drop... but not on acceleration, only decell.



The first part of this video might be helpful even though it's a e60 5er... the white box under the tire seems to bc the RDC tire pressure sensors ECU. At 06:00 using some jumper cables IF you get your car not to crank... that might also be a good way to test your crash sensor on the positive battery post.

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      11-23-2018, 04:49 PM   #15
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Arrow BST and IBS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
It stands for Intelligent Battery Sensor. Rather than me try to explain (probably incorrectly) read this. I'm not sure your car is even supposed to have IBS.

https://www.youcanic.com/guide/bmw-i...battery-sensor


The first thing I would do is have the battery load tested. A good voltage readout alone doesn't necessarily indicate the battery is ok.

If the battery tests good it sounds like you need to take the car to a mechanic that knows BMW's. Also, as mentioned already, think hard about getting an oil change if you're not sure it was done recently.
Couldn't agree with you more!!

Get your battery load tested. Get an oil change since you have no idea IF it was really done or not. Fresh oil is the best oil!!

Dack




BST...

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      11-24-2018, 06:59 AM   #16
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Dackelone. Wow Thank you SO much for that writeup. Amazing points and very good help. Greatly appreciated. I think you hit the nail on the head. It is damn strange the mechanics at the shop have overlooked this.

I will address all this. Sounds like vinegar could be a good friend here.

Is there any specific order of decoupling the red/brown? Same with on.

I thought the whole electrical system would go haywired if you just detach the battery.People have been using an extra battery hooked up to a obd plug to counter this.Or maybe that was something about registration. Clock, radio and registration numbers.
It's a non AGM battery. It has an out gassing tube. The car don't have a start and stop engine function. And I think you're right about the EU thing. No IBS on the brown cable. Adaptive transmission, have no idea, but there was something up with the gears. Felt weak at points to be a 116hp.

Think maybe felt pads and dialectric grease? Would be a good idea.


This is essential information for anyone that owns a car. I've ignorantly NEVER thought about all this stuff. Seems imperative when a car has an electrical system. And especially in cold weather. Come to think of it, as I drove the car home, the climate went from rain to icy cold. Both from where the car stood, to the actual weather changes around these times. And on the first day of driving, it was a "new" way colder temperature than it had been in all year.
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      11-24-2018, 08:30 AM   #17
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I would have the battery checked, and also check the ground strap from the engine to the chassis. Need to lift the car to change that strap. Very common problem.
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      11-24-2018, 10:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
I thought the whole electrical system would go haywired if you just detach the battery.People have been using an extra battery hooked up to a obd plug to counter this.Or maybe that was something about registration. Clock, radio and registration numbers.
I recently changed my battery with no external power and had no problems.
Your clock and maybe radio presets may go away but that is easy to fix. I've read about more problems being created by hooking up an external battery. Personally, I'd be afraid of putting any power to the obd port. However, since your car is an EU version and 2004, it might be a different matter. There is a UK based forum, BabyBMW.net, that might be a useful source.
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      11-24-2018, 12:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I would have the battery checked, and also check the ground strap from the engine to the chassis. Need to lift the car to change that strap. Very common problem.
They said it had 95% efficiency. I guess that's not loading the battery. What do they do to load it? Is there anything simple to get so I can do it myself?

I was looking for the strap, couldn't see it. Getting the Haynes book soon, gonna dig into that. This car doesn't even have an oil dip stick. Aff.

Good detail. Thanks man.
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      11-24-2018, 12:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
I recently changed my battery with no external power and had no problems.
Your clock and maybe radio presets may go away but that is easy to fix. I've read about more problems being created by hooking up an external battery. Personally, I'd be afraid of putting any power to the obd port. However, since your car is an EU version and 2004, it might be a different matter. There is a UK based forum, BabyBMW.net, that might be a useful source.
Nice. You didn't use an OBD tool to register the new battery?

Thanks for that link.
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      11-24-2018, 12:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Nice. You didn't use an OBD tool to register the new battery?

Thanks for that link.
Yes and I had to code it because it was different Ah.
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      11-24-2018, 02:14 PM   #22
MightyMouseTech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audun View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I would have the battery checked, and also check the ground strap from the engine to the chassis. Need to lift the car to change that strap. Very common problem.
They said it had 95% efficiency. I guess that's not loading the battery. What do they do to load it? Is there anything simple to get so I can do it myself?

I was looking for the strap, couldn't see it. Getting the Haynes book soon, gonna dig into that. This car doesn't even have an oil dip stick. Aff.

Good detail. Thanks man.
Modern battery testers don't actually put a load on the battery, they measure the capacitance of the battery. If it is at 95% health, you are good to go.

Most important thing is that ground strap. When it gets corroded, all sorts of issues happen. Computer faults, electric power steering faults, misfires, and when really bad the car won't start.

You can look on realoem.com and it will help show where the cable is. Not sure what side of the car it will be on an EU car. On a North American car, it will be very close to the ground, underneath the steering shaft a little before it connects to the steering rack.
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