Clutch problem

[ARES45]

That is crazy, I would fight like hell if it was mine. Wouldn't they somehow have to prove that you drove it hard and it wasn't their parts that were bad?

[dsmp]

I would think so...... Would it be worth my while to retain the core parts and try and fight with BMWNA?

Better yet, who the hell can i talk to today that can get me outta there without paying a dime?

403-461-8593 is my number

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Bingo!

Someone either learned how to drive a manual on your car, or was just a bad MT driver.

12 km is only 7 english miles though. Unless he meant 12 km = 12,000 km.

[dsmp]

no i meant 12 kms

[dsmp]

Well BMW called me this afternoon to ruin my weekend. She wasnt very specific but told me that after all the above work was completed the tech went to drive the car, and discovered that the clutch pedal was broken??? im assuming she meant linkage of some sort, cause the actual pedal is fine.....

As well the Master cylinder was blown, and some other parts.

These parts are 3 weeks away from germany, as well the explanation is that after the clutch had failed, i pressed too hard on the pedal therefor destroying the master cylinder and other parts she couldnt describe. Therefore, NO WARRANTY!!!!

I know for a fact the pedal was intact when i brought it in.... and wondering if maybe the master went first, or something and caused the clutch to only partially engage, therefore causing damage? im not a tech.... i dont know......

I feel they are hanging me out to dry here!

[rafiki]

wow, this sucks. makes you wonder.

[dsmp]

The advisor suggests i go to bmw canada complaint dept...which re-open monday. My guess is they will give me the run around. There must be a better angle to go. I left her a message to retain all my parts that were replaced in hopes i can maybe get a second opinion. hope they dont get tossed

[UberDTM]

id get a lawyer

[JME]

Originally Posted by dsmp

Well BMW called me this afternoon to ruin my weekend. She wasnt very specific but told me that after all the above work was completed the tech went to drive the car, and discovered that the clutch pedal was broken??? im assuming she meant linkage of some sort, cause the actual pedal is fine.....

As well the Master cylinder was blown, and some other parts.

These parts are 3 weeks away from germany, as well the explanation is that after the clutch had failed, i pressed too hard on the pedal therefor destroying the master cylinder and other parts she couldnt describe. Therefore, NO WARRANTY!!!!

I know for a fact the pedal was intact when i brought it in.... and wondering if maybe the master went first, or something and caused the clutch to only partially engage, therefore causing damage? im not a tech.... i dont know......

I feel they are hanging me out to dry here!

I don't see how you can destroy the master cylinder from "pressing to hard on the clutch pedal."

If someone did that kind of damage in the 12 kilometers before you took possession of the car you would have felt it and noticed it immediately. I don't think that is the issue.

Honestly, and don't take this the wrong way, at first glance it looks like you just plain ripped the fiber off the clutch. The only thing I have to wonder is HOW. Even dropping the clutch at 7k rpm's (which I haven't done on this car) I don't see you slipping bad enough to cause that kind of damage.

My personal opinion:

Originally Posted by RedTRex

Sounds like the Throw out bearing got hung up.....

It really does sound like that's what happened. The throw-out bearing got stuck and didn't let the pressure plate fully engage the clutch pad causing it to slip and destroy the clutch pad. It could also explain the failed master cylinder.

If they have been giving you as bad of customer service as you have been describing I would take it somewhere else if you can. In any case: DO NOT GIVE UP. If you know you are in the right then there is nothing they can do about it. They can not void a warranty claim like this unless they can PROVE that what you did caused the damage. Get a second opinion on it cause it doesn't look like they are being completely honest with you about the damage. If the person who is talking to you on the phone can not describe the parts, then you should go in to the service center, bringing along someone with expert knowledge on how clutches work to verify any claims by the technicians there.

[ARES45]

I would go with JME's advice only I may take it one further. I would go in with a techy and a lawyer, it appears to me that you are straight up getting screwed.

[stampchez]

According to audiworld... Calgary BMW is the most hated BMW dealership in Canada.

http://www.geocities.com/anticalgarybmw/MSIE/

[dsmp]

I agree, it looks like i blew the thing to bits, and i told them that. i even agreed to just pay for the clutch and flywheel and labour, and fight it later.....

Now that they are saying i snapped the pedal, and master cylinder..... and she specifically said "this extra work is a result of you trying to push on the pedal after clutch failure, and definitly not a CAUSE of the initial problem" Makes me even more convinced, perhaps there was a failure of parts.

The one picture of the flywheel shows a piece missing from the bearing. That was the first thing i noticed.
Is it NOT possible that a piece broke off and ripped my clutch apart?
Is it NOT possible that a million other things happened in there other than "ABUSE"?

I just dont get how they are unwilling to even review the possibilty. If in fact it was mechanical failure, you would think they would be interested in finding out how to prevent it in the future

Originally Posted by JME

I don't see how you can destroy the master cylinder from "pressing to hard on the clutch pedal."

If someone did that kind of damage in the 12 kilometers before you took possession of the car you would have felt it and noticed it immediately. I don't think that is the issue.

Honestly, and don't take this the wrong way, at first glance it looks like you just plain ripped the fiber off the clutch. The only thing I have to wonder is HOW. Even dropping the clutch at 7k rpm's (which I haven't done on this car) I don't see you slipping bad enough to cause that kind of damage.

My personal opinion:



It really does sound like that's what happened. The throw-out bearing got stuck and didn't let the pressure plate fully engage the clutch pad causing it to slip and destroy the clutch pad. It could also explain the failed master cylinder.

If they have been giving you as bad of customer service as you have been describing I would take it somewhere else if you can. In any case: DO NOT GIVE UP. If you know you are in the right then there is nothing they can do about it. They can not void a warranty claim like this unless they can PROVE that what you did caused the damage. Get a second opinion on it cause it doesn't look like they are being completely honest with you about the damage. If the person who is talking to you on the phone can not describe the parts, then you should go in to the service center, bringing along someone with expert knowledge on how clutches work to verify any claims by the technicians there.

[JME]

Originally Posted by dsmp

I agree, it looks like i blew the thing to bits, and i told them that. i even agreed to just pay for the clutch and flywheel and labour, and fight it later.....

Now that they are saying i snapped the pedal, and master cylinder..... and she specifically said "this extra work is a result of you trying to push on the pedal after clutch failure, and definitly not a CAUSE of the initial problem" Makes me even more convinced, perhaps there was a failure of parts.

The one picture of the flywheel shows a piece missing from the bearing. That was the first thing i noticed.
Is it NOT possible that a piece broke off and ripped my clutch apart?
Is it NOT possible that a million other things happened in there other than "ABUSE"?

I just dont get how they are unwilling to even review the possibilty. If in fact it was mechanical failure, you would think they would be interested in finding out how to prevent it in the future

If you go to the link Stampchez posted you will see the dealership you took it to has a bad reputation for doing exactly what you are describing.

Also, I didn't even notice the picture where the bearing seal was missing a piece! That is an obvious sign that something went seriously wrong. It is DEFINITELY possible for something like that to happen. I have personal experience with a very similar problem (only my clutch shot metal through the bell housing, it wasn't pretty. The story is pretty good, but I don't want to take the spotlight off of you.)

Still, I would get a second opinion from someone. I know its a lot of work on your part, but I would NOT pay them a dime or sign an estimate until you are convinced that what they are telling you is the truth.

And one last thing. As far as I know, pushing on a clutch pedal is normal operating procedure for a manual transmission. Hence, any damage to the pedal or master clyinder is NOT caused by you pushing on it, but rather caused by the malfunction of the clutch itself. It's complete arrogance that they think they can get away with throwing around bullshit like that. I would definitely let whatever Canada's version of the BBB know about what is going on.

[dsmp]

Originally Posted by JME

Still, I would get a second opinion from someone. I know its a lot of work on your part, but I would NOT pay them a dime or sign an estimate until you are convinced that what they are telling you is the truth.


This is my plan, i have quite the agenda for monday. I'm thinking to proceed as follows:

1. Call BMW canada.

2. Call the Dealer Sales manager(that shook my hand and told me to call him for anything when i origionally leased the vehicle) and ask him to arrange a meeting with him, the Service manager, myself, and my current service advisor.
I would like to have everyone that had "interests" in my purchase/service present to hear me out.

3. Contact BBB

4. hopefully we dont get here......but if we do......shit ill call germany.

And one last thing. As far as I know, pushing on a clutch pedal is normal operating procedure for a manual transmission. Hence, any damage to the pedal or master clyinder is NOT caused by you pushing on it, but rather caused by the malfunction of the clutch itself. It's complete arrogance that they think they can get away with throwing around bullshit like that. I would definitely let whatever Canada's version of the BBB know about what is going on.

No kidding, i can't even believe that comment was made. I just wish i knew enough about cars to give an example such as "well if im doing 110 km/h, clutch fails, and my car is stuck in gear, was i supposed to not touch the clutch pedal?"

Give me a break

[stefan]

This severely worries me. My clutch felt odd from day one, but I was told not to worry about it. I had a bit of vibration when the pedal was on the floor. It went away after ~500km.

Now I am getting some rattle.. and I have babied this clutch. I just put my mind at ease knowing it would just be a warranty issue. But $2800???? Not to mention I thought clutches were covered under our 1er plans??? What a rip off! Calgary BMW... not doing so well in my books.

[hbiscuit]

i feel like we're not getting the entire story here.

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by dsmp

No kidding, i can't even believe that comment was made. I just wish i knew enough about cars to give an example such as "well if im doing 110 km/h, clutch fails, and my car is stuck in gear, was i supposed to not touch the clutch pedal?"

Give me a break

Also ask them where it says that in the owner's manual.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by stefan

I thought clutches were covered under our 1er plans??? .

In Canada - the clutch is not covered unless you get the additional warranty. However, I would think that if it could be proven to be a faulty component related to the clutch failing, that BMW should cover it.

[ARES45]

So Canadians have to pay more, and they get less warranty. No wonder you guys complained so much.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by ARES45

So Canadians have to pay more, and they get less warranty. No wonder you guys complained so much.

That is right, we don't get the 'wear' warranty. Clutch, brake pads, wipers etc are not covered under std warranty. They try to sell you a coverage upgrade for $2,500 when you pick up the car. LOL

[Brady1984]

This is the kind of horror story you get from a rip off garage. It may have failed under "spirited driving conditions" but I wonder how many other cases like this the dealership has seen? I bet it's VERY few. Most 1's see some spirited driving and don't experience an end like this. There must be a way to have another dealership take a look at this or get a second opinion.

[Bringinthewolf]

Lester, we don't complain, do we?