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      09-25-2018, 02:55 PM   #23
Schwarzschild Radius
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Reminds me of this woman

Rachel Dolezal: White woman pretending to be black charged with ...
https://www.news.com.au/.../real...b...e711e2e65affd1
May 26, 2018 - Nkechi Diallo, known as Rachel Dolezal before she legally changed her name in 2016, was charged this week with theft by welfare fraud, perjury and false verification for public assistance, Spokane news station KHQ-TV reported Thursday. She illegally received over $AU11,500 in food ...
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e711e2e65affd1

Nuts are all over, on the left and the right.
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      09-25-2018, 03:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Seriously, 12 posts in and not a single person has pointed out the obvious: we have no idea whether the allegations are true or not. There is simply not enough information at this point to make a reasonable determination as to whether any of these accusations are true.

Yet, eight of you have chimed in to essentially declare Dr. Ford (and potentially others) liars and Mr. Kavanaugh a saint without any understanding of what may or may not have occurred. That is why some sort of investigative and/or fact finding exercise is required ... so that a reasonable determination of truthfulness can be made.

Or, does it simply not matter to you if a Supreme Court justice is a sexual predator or serial harasser?
Where do you see comments relating to Ford in this thread above your post?

We all stated that false accusations should carry a stiff enough penalty to deter the behavior.

Either way, once an accusation is made the accused never recovers and neither does the family.

If guilty, throw the book at him/her but we must proceed as innocent until proven otherwise.
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      09-25-2018, 03:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Sad state of affairs these days. As a father of a daughter and sons, I fear that this me too movement will affect all of them. We need to have severe consequences for false accusations. Ruining lives is not cool and needs to be punishable extreme enough to deter this behavior.
So then what happens to the people who really are telling the truth, but have no hard evidence to back it up? Youíd send them to jail? Or should they just stay quiet forever?

IMO the issue at hand is the lack of evidence in many cases. As my religious friends point out ad nauseam, the absence of proof is not necessarily proof to the contrary. I would venture to guess that proving a false accusation could be as difficult as proving a positive one. True that the burden of proof is with the accuser (hat tip Judge Judy), but that loses meaning in a defamation case, or outside of court I suppose. Regardless (and speaking generally), people should be able to have their day and present their case, good evidence or not.

Iíll add that there doesnít seem to be much (although there is some) complaint about handling these matters in the court of public opinion until politicians are involved. Funny how that works.
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      09-25-2018, 03:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Where do you see comments relating to Ford in this thread above your post?

We all stated that false accusations should carry a stiff enough penalty to deter the behavior.

Either way, once an accusation is made the accused never recovers and neither does the family.

If guilty, throw the book at him/her but we must proceed as innocent until proven otherwise.
Guilty--throw the book at him? It does not seem like any hard evidence is going to be had in which case it will be word against word. There is no way in a court of law that a guilty verdict is reached. Can't see any books getting thrown around here.

As a side note--I hardly think it matters what she says as he will be confirmed by the Republican controlled senate. Even if deep down they believe her. [SIZE="1"]Politics always Trumps morals.[/SIZE] Couldn't resist that one.

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      09-25-2018, 03:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
[SIZE="3"][/SIZE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Where do you see comments relating to Ford in this thread above your post?

We all stated that false accusations should carry a stiff enough penalty to deter the behavior.

Either way, once an accusation is made the accused never recovers and neither does the family.

If guilty, throw the book at him/her but we must proceed as innocent until proven otherwise.
Guilty--throw the book at him? It does not seem like any hard evidence is going to be had in which case it will be word against word. There is no way in a court of law that a guilty verdict is reached. Can't see any books getting thrown around here.

As a side note--I hardly think it matters what she says as he will be confirmed by the Republican controlled senate. Even if deep down they believe her. [SIZE="1"[SIZE="5"][SIZE="3"]]Politics always Trumps morals.[[/SIZE]/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]Couldn't resist that one.[/SIZE]

[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Comment was in general. Not related to Fords accusations. Anyone guilty of sexual misconduct should be punished. Plenty of women are predators as well.
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      09-25-2018, 04:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlof View Post
How does he have a chance? He's being accused of a crime based on a single persons testimony whose credibility and motives are questionable at best. Everyone else is just jumping on the Democratic #MeToo train. There is literally no evidence to support any of their claims, and heaps of motive to lie under oath.
No evidence ... yet. A victimís testimony under oath is a form of evidence. Even hearsay, under certain circumstances, is admissible evidence. Whether such testimony is credible is a different matter, but it is still evidence.
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      09-25-2018, 08:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlof View Post
How does he have a chance? He's being accused of a crime based on a single persons testimony whose credibility and motives are questionable at best. Everyone else is just jumping on the Democratic #MeToo train. There is literally no evidence to support any of their claims, and heaps of motive to lie under oath.
No evidence ... yet. A victim’s testimony under oath is a form of evidence. Even hearsay, under certain circumstances, is admissible evidence. Whether such testimony is credible is a different matter, but it is still evidence.
True, but nobody has lied under oath for the benefit of their party
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      09-25-2018, 11:04 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Seriously, 12 posts in and not a single person has pointed out the obvious: we have no idea whether the allegations are true or not. There is simply not enough information at this point to make a reasonable determination as to whether any of these accusations are true.

Yet, eight of you have chimed in to essentially declare Dr. Ford (and potentially others) liars and Mr. Kavanaugh a saint without any understanding of what may or may not have occurred. That is why some sort of investigative and/or fact finding exercise is required ... so that a reasonable determination of truthfulness can be made.

Or, does it simply not matter to you if a Supreme Court justice is a sexual predator or serial harasser?
And Kaitlin Jenner is a woman.
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      10-02-2018, 10:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Where do you see comments relating to Ford in this thread above your post?

We all stated that false accusations should carry a stiff enough penalty to deter the behavior.

Either way, once an accusation is made the accused never recovers and neither does the family.

If guilty, throw the book at him/her but we must proceed as innocent until proven otherwise.
Once an accusation is made the accused never recovers...

Just a suggestion here, but Clarence Thomas was still a supreme Court Justice last time I checked. He was accused.
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      10-03-2018, 12:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
No evidence ... yet. A victimís testimony under oath is a form of evidence. Even hearsay, under certain circumstances, is admissible evidence. Whether such testimony is credible is a different matter, but it is still evidence.
Please cite one case that one person accusing an individual was enough evidence to convict them.
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      10-03-2018, 06:13 AM   #33
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The same instinct that stops me from clicking on links in emails I receive from Nigerian Barristers prevents me from automatically believing Dr. Ford just because she says so.

#metooskankmob
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      10-03-2018, 06:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Please cite one case that one person accusing an individual was enough evidence to convict them.
You're seriously arguing that an unfounded and unproven allegation on another person does not have any affect on them because it didnít go to court, or was unproven?
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      10-03-2018, 07:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
You're seriously arguing that an unfounded and unproven allegation on another person does not have any affect on them because it didnít go to court, or was unproven?
I'm saying that an allegation would not convict anyone in the United states
And as for false allegation the freaking agency that took the report should get off their lazy asses and charge her for filing a false report.
As for the accuse unfortunately in this case as far as I'm aware he unable to file for slander since he a government offical and I'm not comfortable suggesting changing that law.
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      10-03-2018, 08:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I'm saying that an allegation would not convict anyone in the United states
And as for false allegation the freaking agency that took the report should get off their lazy asses and charge her for filing a false report.
As for the accuse unfortunately in this case as far as I'm aware he unable to file for slander since he a government offical and I'm not comfortable suggesting changing that law.
Read up on conspiracy charges if you think that someone cannot be convicted based on testimony alone.
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      10-03-2018, 08:12 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlof View Post
Read up on conspiracy charges if you think that someone cannot be convicted based on testimony alone.
Cite case please
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      10-03-2018, 09:14 AM   #38
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^ Banks/Gibson
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      10-03-2018, 10:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Cite case please
United States v. Silverman
Lyda v. United States (was ultimately overturned, but a conviction was still made)

There are literally thousands of these cases. Its all outlined in the "Federal Rules of Evidence." Not only is it allowable, but its used widely to convict people of crimes they may or may not have even been involved in.

It basically comes down to the situation where someone who is charged with a crime is offered a lighter sentence if they provide the names of other people involved. The person is highly incentivized to provide names, even if they are people not even involved. And even if there is a lack of any physical evidence of the other persons involvement, the testimony of the original party can be used as the sole basis for a conviction.
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      10-03-2018, 10:18 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlof View Post
United States v. Silverman
Lyda v. United States (was ultimately overturned, but a conviction was still made)

There are literally thousands of these cases. Its all outlined in the "Federal Rules of Evidence." Not only is it allowable, but its used widely to convict people of crimes they may or may not have even been involved in.

It basically comes down to the situation where someone who is charged with a crime is offered a lighter sentence if they provide the names of other people involved. The person is highly incentivized to provide names, even if they are people not even involved. And even if there is a lack of any physical evidence of the other persons involvement, the testimony of the original party can be used as the sole basis for a conviction.
So you cite a case that was overturn and then claim thousand of other cases
Please cite a case not overturn
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      10-03-2018, 10:23 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
So you cite a case that was overturn and then claim thousand of other cases
Please cite a case not overturn

Are you purposefully reading between the lines? I listed 2 cases, one of which was ultimately overturned (years later). I also listed the federal statute that allows them to get away with it.

If you're not willing to read the information I've provided, I'm not willing to do your research.

Fact of the matter is, this happens all the time. If you're not convinced of that, I'd suggest you do your own research on the matter instead of believing what a few people on a car forum or MSM tell you.
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      10-03-2018, 10:49 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
^ Banks/Gibson
What did Debbie Gibson do this time? She's in concert here this month.
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      10-03-2018, 12:03 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
What did Debbie Gibson do this time? She's in concert here this month.
Don't let your HS-aged boys go to a concert with her, she might accuse them of sexual misconduct, and then sue the venue for $$$, but later recant her statement AFTER the boys server 5+ years in prison.


Or she just might sing out of key. . .
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