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      05-31-2014, 03:40 PM   #1
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250whp N/A possible?


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      05-31-2014, 04:02 PM   #2
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250WHP all motor sounds a bit generous to me...just not enough displacement or revs.

Bet you could get darn close though.
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      05-31-2014, 04:23 PM   #3
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I think the No Mods base line is above 170 whp, even on a Mustang. The charts above post 175-185 whp avg for base lines.

The Disa manifold should add about 15-20 whp. I imagine the headers release 10-15 whp, especially if file is optimized, a non optimized file shows 6.5k drop very clearly

So the end result is 25-30 whp add on for full bolt on
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      05-31-2014, 04:27 PM   #4
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which headers are these?
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      05-31-2014, 04:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Solid point, the J30 motor in the Accord can do it, though it is a FWD car so the drivetrain loss is less. You weren't touching 240+whp in a M54B30 without cams and head work, BUT - M54's made considerably more torque than our cars do...

Maybe a set of higher lift cams would do the trick, this of course doesn't factor in the maximum engine speed you for the Valvetronic system (a higher redline would likely be required) and then there is cost. Who would pay $1500-$2000 extra for 10-20whp when you can double that and have 80-100whp with a Supercharger?

My head hurts.
Exactly. You'd need to really start playing with the head work and cam overlap, ultimately you'd have to find more revs to get the type of power discussed.

Far easier to add boost, though personally i'm confused as to why folks are doing that on this motor. But that's besides the point.

As an aside, it's pretty sweet you guys can pick up 20WHP via a revised intake mani.
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      05-31-2014, 05:40 PM   #6
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Fair point.
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      05-31-2014, 05:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Why bother doing FBO to a N54/N55 when a Mustang 5.0 will pull those numbers stock and with boltons exceed it? It's not that I don't agree, but it will always be a slippery slope when it comes to modifying cars.

I've been trying to get my car BACK on the dyno to see what I gained with my swap. I DID dyno it back a week or two ago...and let's not talk about that.
Without getting argumentative, the goal is to compare 2 similar trim levels of the same car. No one mods a V6 mustang and takes it seriously when the 5.0 is available especially when it's a vastly superior platform. A stock 135i dynos at 270 WHP... that is already 20 WHP more stock and arguably more reliably than an N52 with potential cam work... not exactly an apples to apples comparo. I feel if you buy the 128i with any sort of power gains / goals in mind, when for a few grand more a vastly superior trim level is already available... you are somewhat wasting your time. Once again, not to be condescending just pointing out the obvious here... for the same price with bolt ons, you could have had an N54/N55. If your goal is stay NA and you are honestly looking for performance, the N52 is generally speaking a bad choice as S54s can be had for cheap these days and will blow away any N52.
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      05-31-2014, 06:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Without getting argumentative, the goal is to compare 2 similar trim levels of the same car. No one mods a V6 mustang and takes it seriously when the 5.0 is available especially when it's a vastly superior platform. A stock 135i dynos at 270 WHP... that is already 20 WHP more stock and arguably more reliably than an N52 with potential cam work... not exactly an apples to apples comparo. I feel if you buy the 128i with any sort of power gains / goals in mind, when for a few grand more a vastly superior trim level is already available... you are somewhat wasting your time. Once again, not to be condescending just pointing out the obvious here... for the same price with bolt ons, you could have had an N54/N55. If your goal is stay NA and you are honestly looking for performance, the N52 is generally speaking a bad choice as S54s can be had for cheap these days and will blow away any N52.
I agree as far as bolt-on mods are concerned. It's just a waist of money on this car though I'm guilty of it a little. I bought my 128i for the reliability as a daily driver and it has exceded my expectations, I will however consider the supercharger when it's officially released since my 128 is paid off and I think it will be fun. Could have bought a 135i, but I decided to twin turbo my 370z instead and glad I did.
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      05-31-2014, 06:57 PM   #9
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I mean i made 225rwhp 201rwtq on a dynojet dyno with DISA, primary cat delete(Mapleridge) headers, and AA tune.

Intake manifold alone i made 218rwhp 193rwtq for comparison. Same dyno, very similar conditions.

I think it'd be possible to get to 250rwhp without FI, it's just too expensive to justify IMO. I love my car for what it is currently and have no desire to go any further. My next step would be back in the suspension department if anything.
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      06-01-2014, 08:27 AM   #10
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We may all be driving turbos in a few years. The ability to make max torque at low rpm coupled with an automatic transmission that keeps rpm low will improve gas mileage and may be the only way to achieve the future targets. They won't be 3l turbos, however. Little motors on lots of boost. 2L may seem big in a few years.

But today I can still have my NA motor. I prefer to have power build gradually and peak near redline. I like that pattern. I also prefer a manual transmission in a sporty car (I even have a manual in my SUV). So while I still can, I prefer to drive NA. I might put a manifold on some day and may even headers and a tune. But even if I stay stock, I have enough power to have fun.

So to those with turbos I will admit you are driving the style of motor I will probably be forced into in a few years but for now you can have it, I'll stay NA. I understand you can make more power and your car will be faster. But it will also drop in power near redline. I like the loads of torque down low but overall I prefer the NA. Your choice is not diminished by the fact it isn't my choice.
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      06-01-2014, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Why bother doing FBO to a N54/N55 when a Mustang 5.0 will pull those numbers stock and with boltons exceed it? It's not that I don't agree, but it will always be a slippery slope when it comes to modifying cars.

I've been trying to get my car BACK on the dyno to see what I gained with my swap. I DID dyno it back a week or two ago...and let's not talk about that.
I think the point he was trying to make was that if your going for power alone your on the wrong platform. An american v8 has much more power potential and it will cost you about half as much. Coyote motor+Kenne Bell Supercharger= Faster than any 1 series.

Last edited by MarkkyyMan; 06-01-2014 at 10:20 AM..
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      06-01-2014, 07:03 PM   #12
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i got 205rwhp bone stock on my 130i (pretty much just DISA+slightly different tune) on a dynodynamics, 15rwhp for headers seems pretty realistic

anything more you'd need a really aggressive tune (E85 probably), maybe cams, then it goes insane from there like $10k stroker kits and junk lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
I think the point he was trying to make was that if your going for power alone your on the wrong platform. An american v8 has much more power potential and it will cost you about half as much. Coyote motor+Kenne Bell Supercharger= Faster than any 1 series.
fastest 1ers are getting up to high 7xx whp and weigh a shitload less than a 5.0.
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      06-02-2014, 06:36 PM   #13
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BMW 135i= around 3350lbs
Mustang GT(coyote motor)= alittle over 3620lbs

The difference isn't as drastic as you might think.

Coyote with KB can easily be 600 crank hp, near 1000 with the right build.

Where are these 700whp 135i's?
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      06-02-2014, 06:44 PM   #14
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I'll be one of those guys trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the engine.

To compete in SCCA STX, you are allowed to do headers, exhaust, tune, and IIRC injectors.

So, considering I have a N51 and have a DISA manifold (under the rules you CANNOT do a manifold swap) I think I have a step in the right direction with getting some decent whp.

I need to get above 225 whp in order to have the same weight/hp ratio of a prep'ed FRS/BRZ. I'm assuming 2900lb curb weight (hopefully less)
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      06-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #15
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Seriously, these threads make my head hurt . . .
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      06-04-2014, 01:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post

Where are these 700whp 135i's?
should be on this forum somewhere?

there's only 1 or 2 at the moment i think

should be heaps later this year.
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      06-04-2014, 02:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
should be on this forum somewhere?

there's only 1 or 2 at the moment i think

should be heaps later this year.
I can vouche for this, I seen the thread too, but too lazy to find it lol.
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      06-04-2014, 03:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
should be on this forum somewhere?

there's only 1 or 2 at the moment i think

should be heaps later this year.
Why so many later this year?

I wander over to the dark-side occasionally and have yet to stumble across this mythical 700 WHP 135i.

Last edited by MarkkyyMan; 06-04-2014 at 05:22 PM..
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      06-04-2014, 04:28 PM   #19
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I'm trying to think of how to make a 135i worse than having 700hp, but I'm not having a whole lot of luck. Talk about completely ruining a car.
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      06-04-2014, 06:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Why so many later this year?

I wander over to the dark-side occasionally and have yet to stumble across this mythical 700 WHP 135i.
the turbo kits are coming out, tuning is being sorted. (Vargas twin GTX28 kits shouldn't be more than a couple more months away?)

twin HPFP solution nearing release (couple of months away)

drop in super high flow LPFP's coming out now.

lots of people doing full rebuilds.

not to mention BMS's single turbo 135i with a 5862 making ~600rwhp on a fairly mild tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
I'm trying to think of how to make a 135i worse than having 700hp, but I'm not having a whole lot of luck. Talk about completely ruining a car.
how is it ruined?

have you seen the power/torque curves? they're butter smooth, rather than the massive midrange hump on stock twins, making power BEYOND factory redline!

DI on these motors let you go for incredible spool on a reasonable sized single.

plus, less, less aggressive torque (so less stress on motor, trans, driveline etc.) for more, easier to control, power.

i'd say massively improved personally.

these cars will sing with a well tuned GTX3582, and i can't wait to see someone try to fit a 42R or 9180 or something haha
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      06-04-2014, 06:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G
I'm trying to think of how to make a 135i worse than having 700hp, but I'm not having a whole lot of luck. Talk about completely ruining a car.
A 700hp 135i or even 1m is so pointless. It's only purpose is for going on a Dyno and internet bragging.
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      06-04-2014, 10:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
the turbo kits are coming out, tuning is being sorted. (Vargas twin GTX28 kits shouldn't be more than a couple more months away?)

twin HPFP solution nearing release (couple of months away)

drop in super high flow LPFP's coming out now.

lots of people doing full rebuilds.

not to mention BMS's single turbo 135i with a 5862 making ~600rwhp on a fairly mild tune.



how is it ruined?

have you seen the power/torque curves? they're butter smooth, rather than the massive midrange hump on stock twins, making power BEYOND factory redline!

DI on these motors let you go for incredible spool on a reasonable sized single.

plus, less, less aggressive torque (so less stress on motor, trans, driveline etc.) for more, easier to control, power.

i'd say massively improved personally.

these cars will sing with a well tuned GTX3582, and i can't wait to see someone try to fit a 42R or 9180 or something haha

He thinks anything is ruin if it's not OEM. Lol personally I feel the 135i was the car for me, I'm always tinkering with power. Miss my old car.
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