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      03-21-2022, 06:18 PM   #23
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I think ultimately the car gets tracked and you use it as it was meant to be used.

To this end, there will inevitably be some usage patina (even though this windshield fiasco isn't exactly the right kind of patina.)

You could lawyer up and try to figure out the right loss of value but my gut reaction is that in the end it's just not worth the headache -- in the end it's a 1M and not an F1.

Take the cost of replacement in cash and leave this unpleasant situation in the rearview mirror and continue driving the heck out of the car.
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      03-22-2022, 02:15 PM   #24
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How much extra should I request for "loss of value?" The way I see it a car with a replaced dash would have a lower value than a car that was fully original, even if the replacement is perfect. That is the kind of number I would like to ask for. I will probably work with a lawyer if it seems to be worthwhile. What do you folks think that number should be? $2000? $5000? $15,698.24?
So you went in to get your car fixed and it came back messed up, I would certainly be an unhappy camper. You have an M2 CS and a lift in your garage. Any 1er nav dash will work; I'm sure you could find a nice used one and replace it yourself without any damage to the cars value. I think that FMV for a new dash and steering wheel, plus dealer's labor estimate, would be fair.
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      08-02-2022, 10:35 PM   #25
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Retention tape plays an important role in holding the windshield onto its frame, ensuring the windshield remains in proper position while the adhesive and sealant dry. But how long to leave tape on after windshield replacement? The answer is around 24-48 hours.
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      08-26-2022, 03:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by PRTSB1M View Post
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Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
How much extra should I request for "loss of value?" The way I see it a car with a replaced dash would have a lower value than a car that was fully original, even if the replacement is perfect. That is the kind of number I would like to ask for. I will probably work with a lawyer if it seems to be worthwhile. What do you folks think that number should be? $2000? $5000? $15,698.24?
So you went in to get your car fixed and it came back messed up, I would certainly be an unhappy camper. You have an M2 CS and a lift in your garage. Any 1er nav dash will work; I'm sure you could find a nice used one and replace it yourself without any damage to the cars value. I think that FMV for a new dash and steering wheel, plus dealer's labor estimate, would be fair.
Non 1M dash would not have the alcantara with orange stitching over the passenger side. The whole dash is a complete structure. The 1M dash is backordered from BMW's supplier and with no ETA, expected to be at least 2023.

I am about to go into mediation for my small claims suit against the glass shop as I write this. It has been an appalling process….More to come.
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      08-26-2022, 03:30 PM   #27
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The Alcantara covered piece on the passenger side of dashboard is a separate part. Part#: 51-45-8-051-251, which seems to be available.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_6713
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      08-26-2022, 06:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MechE View Post
The Alcantara covered piece on the passenger side of dashboard is a separate part. Part#: 51-45-8-051-251, which seems to be available.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_6713
Good to know, although I would still only want a new piece, not a dash that had been scavenged out of a junkyard car.
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      08-27-2022, 09:37 AM   #29
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So, the saga continues….long story

The manager of the glass shop had told me that he would watch for parts availability, but as noted above it was not until the early part of this year that I followed up with BMW and found out that the parts may not be available until 2023. The glass shop manager did not return my calls after multiple voicemails on his personal cell phone, which he had given me so that we could keep in touch. I eventually called the glass shop and was put in touch with him.

I told him what I had learned about the parts, and asked him to put me in touch with his insurance company so that I could just take a cash settlement for the amount of the estimate ($4260 parts and labor) and loss of value. He still did not give me any insurance information, and said that he would need to talk to his regional manager about this.

About two weeks later I received an email from the regional manager telling me that they know of a shop in Portland, OR (220 miles from where I live) that could repair the dash for a cost of $350. He told me that he would waive the cost of my windshield replacement and asked where he should send my $350 check. Not only was this insulting, but it did not account for the fact that making a 7 hour round-trip for the repair on a weekday would cost my practice over $4000 in revenue. It would cost me more than it would save them! In my mind, I heard Willam Defoe as Agent Smecker saying "It's on now."

I wrote back explaining that a superficial epoxy repair job would further diminish the value of the car and would not hold up over time. I advised him not to underestimate my determination to hold the company fully responsible for all of the damages caused. I demanded the cost of the estimate multiplied by 2 (about $8500) with a warning that I would take legal action if that demand was not met. A friend who is a lawyer referred me to a fellow car enthusiast who is a trial attorney with extensive litigation experience. He reviewed the situation and agreed to help me with a demand letter pro bono. After two weeks past with no reply, he sent a formal demand letter seeking the settlement.

He eventually received a response from the corporate attorney with two questions: What formula was used when determining the amount requested for loss of value? Has the vehicle had any exterior body or paint work? My attorney forwarded this request to me with optimism that it showed we had made some progress.

The following day I spent about an hour reviewing sales on bringatrailer. As most of you know, we all watch the sales of 1M's. I usually read the comments especially questions asked when cars have had repairs. I had a sense of how the value would be affected, but did not have specific examples until I went digging. I started by finding cars with higher mileage and repair history (similar to mine) and then identified additional cars with similar mileage sold around the same time with a "clean carfax". I identified 3 sets of cars. The lowest price difference was $5000 and the other two sets showed a difference of $15000. One of those sets had 3 clean cars, two of which actually had higher mileage than the damaged one. This effort actually showed that my demand had been generous. All of the examples had sold over MSRP (this becomes relevant below!) Regarding the second question, I told them that any minor paint work paid out of pocket without an insurance claim would not be reported to Carfax, and would therefore not likely be disclosed at auction. Front bumper repaint is common on a 10-year-old car that has higher miles and does not usually affect value the way major repairs do.

About two weeks later they responded offering to waive the cost of the windshield and send a check for $1057 which they described as "25% of the repair cost accounting for depreciation of the used parts." It is amazing that they can consider the parts they damaged "depreciated" when I had sent them proof that the car as a whole has not depreciated. Even at my mileage with mods and track use, I could probably get MSRP if I sold the car. Agent Smecker anyone? Now I am conjuring up the twins themselves.

I spoke to my attorney who recommended I use small claims court, which does allow me to sue for the amount I had requested (limit in Washington state is $10,000). He gave me the name of another attorney if I wanted a second opinion, and she had the same recommendation. She actually told me that the retainer needed to initiate a suit in district court would be north of $20,000 and that district court is backed up 2 years due to COVID. Filing small claims costs $50. She was very helpful and gave me some pointers on how to put all of the facts together so that it would be very easy for the judge to reach the right conclusion.

I checked again with BMW, still no ETA for parts, but prices went up. Estimate is now $4497. I went back to bringatrailer and found two more recent sales from June that demonstrated a price difference of $16,600 and added them to my analysis. I initiated a small claims suit for $9497 for the estimate plus $5000 which I consider to be the bare minimum loss of value attributable to the repair.

Yesterday I went to the required mitigation hearing. After the regional manager and I had each presented and answered some questions from the mitigation consultant, he asked the manager "are you prepared to offer anything today?" The manager said he had been authorized to waive the cost of the windshield and write a check for $500. The mitigation consultant was visibly surprised and turned to me: "I am assuming that is not satisfactory?" I said it wasn't even worth thinking about. He escorted us back to the courtroom and scheduled a trial for 9/23. The company will need to send an attorney to represent them at trial per Washington state law. (A corporation being represented by a non-attorney in court is considered to be practicing law without a license according to both attorneys I spoke to). I am looking forward to my chance to present to the judge. I can't imagine any way I would not be awarded at least the cost of the estimate. Frankly, I don't need the money. The way this company dropped the ball is truly surprising to me and just inexcusable!

A few other points:
-The manager tried to use the fact that I hadn't ordered "dealer glass" as proof I don't really care about my car. I am interested to see if the attorney states that at trial. I will definitely call them on that: "Did you just state for the record under oath that using your company's product is proof that a car owner doesn't care about their car?"
-The manager tried to paint me as having a personal problem with the tech due to his weight. I definitely vented here in post #1 about it, but never discussed it with the tech himself. I brought it up with the manager because it was clear it played a role in the steering wheel damage which the tech had initially tried to say must have been ore-existing. It was not brought up in a derogatory way. His weight was such that there is no way he could lean to reach the middle of the car without support. I don't think I could put that much pressure on the leather if I tried. If the tech ever heard that his weight had been discussed and felt badly as a result, it was his manager that told him not me.
-After the hearing, the regional manager and I exchanged contact info since we are both required to provide all information at least 1 week prior to trial. He was pretty nice and said (off the record of course) he wished he could just give it to me, but corporate is in charge. Unfortunately this is the same guy that saw the lack of parts availability as a chance to save money and offered me $350 so I could take my car to Portland for a patch job. If he had offered the full cost of the original estimate, we would not have been in the courthouse.
-Most people would think going to court as a private citizen and facing presumably an experienced attorney would be stressful. The second attorney I spoke to gave me some nice advice on this. She told me that the attorney representing the corporation will have to follow all of the rules to the letter and that as a private citizen I will be granted some latitude by the judge who will recognize that I don't have litigation experience. The judges usually try to make sure that the attorneys do not take advantage of private citizens in this situation. In my profession, I have given depositions on multiple occasions as an expert witness and have found that it is easy to figure out where a line of questioning is going, especially if I know what they are hoping to prove. I am pretty good at making sure I never allow myself to be led into any logical traps. Part of what makes this easy is that I know far more about my area of expertise than any of the attorneys involved, so often what they are trying to accomplish simply doesn't fit the facts. The attorney for the glass company is going to figure out pretty quickly that he doesn't know much about cars and certainly doesn't know much about recent sales of 1M's.

Sorry for length!
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      08-28-2022, 02:49 PM   #30
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This is beyond infuriating.
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      08-28-2022, 05:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
This is beyond infuriating.
Yup, I appreciated your advice above, and honestly would've excepted a cash settlement for the actual cost of the repair if they had offered that, although I would've been disappointed. The fact that they tried to lowball me, taking advantage of the fact that the parts aren't available to save themselves some money is the infuriating part, and I'm pretty sure a judge is going to see it the same way. I'll find out in a few weeks.
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      09-20-2022, 10:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Yup, I appreciated your advice above, and honestly would've excepted a cash settlement for the actual cost of the repair if they had offered that, although I would've been disappointed. The fact that they tried to lowball me, taking advantage of the fact that the parts aren't available to save themselves some money is the infuriating part, and I'm pretty sure a judge is going to see it the same way. I'll find out in a few weeks.
Any good news? I wasn't digging on you in my last post btw, I've just spent more time looking at realoem.com than I care to admit; and firmly believe that BMW used the same main dash in all E82s. From what I can see all the orange stitching pieces for 1M are still available new from BMW, but unless yours are damaged could just be transplanted over.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_6713
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      09-20-2022, 10:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRTSB1M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Yup, I appreciated your advice above, and honestly would've excepted a cash settlement for the actual cost of the repair if they had offered that, although I would've been disappointed. The fact that they tried to lowball me, taking advantage of the fact that the parts aren't available to save themselves some money is the infuriating part, and I'm pretty sure a judge is going to see it the same way. I'll find out in a few weeks.
Any good news? I wasn't digging on you in my last post btw, I've just spent more time looking at realoem.com than I care to admit; and firmly believe that BMW used the same main dash in all E82s. From what I can see all the orange stitching pieces for 1M are still available new from BMW, but unless yours are damaged could just be transplanted over.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_6713
Going to court on Friday. Will let you know!
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      09-21-2022, 04:25 PM   #34
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Interesting update….After the failed mediation, in preparing for court, I called my parts guys to request proof that the glass shop had placed orders for the parts. He told me that the parts have arrived, have been there since late June and that they notified the glass shop in early July and were told to "keep the job on hold" for now. I was never notified since I had not ordered them myself, but the regional manager should have known this when he came to mediation. I have all of this verified in an email conversation with the parts department and have submitted it as evidence that the shop has not negotiated in good faith.
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      09-23-2022, 07:23 PM   #35
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UPDATE: I was not awarded anything for loss of value, but they were ordered to pay for the repair now that parts have arrived. Work is scheduled for Monday. Just dropped off the car. The lead technician will be doing the work.
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      09-23-2022, 09:18 PM   #36
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In the spirit of sticking-it-to-the-man I was hoping there'd be some jackpot punitive payoff but that probably wouldn't have been fair, albeit emotionally satisfying. Maybe they'll think twice next time they try to jerk a customer around.
I also found it flabbergasting that the parts were just sitting there at the dealer.

May karmic justice be doled out swiftly.
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      09-27-2022, 07:25 PM   #37
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Got the car back, everything is in perfect working order, no rattles or squeaks despite my very stiff motor mounts. Time to break in the new steering wheel properly….track day in 11 days!
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      10-18-2022, 03:18 AM   #38
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Glad your issue is finally resolved. Please post pics up of the new dashboard and steering :-)
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      11-22-2022, 11:26 AM   #39
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You must have to ask them to pay you for this loss.
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      12-23-2022, 12:52 PM   #40
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That's really sad to see you have to face more damage. However my experience was pretty good with local shop
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