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      06-17-2013, 07:26 PM   #1
foghat
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Radiator fan running like a bat out of hell!

Hey all,

So my radiator fan is running full bore. It is loud. Only comes on (this loud) when the AC is on. Will happen in under a minute after starting my car. Goes away about 10-20 seconds after turning AC off. Comes back on pretty much immediately after turning AC on.

It is not terribly hot right now. About 20C.

Cobb AP is not showing any codes and my coolant levels are good.

Could this be a sign my water pump is going? In other posts I've found on this (where fan is indicator of failing water pump), there are usually codes being thrown.

I'm not sure when this started happening, but I noticed it 2 days ago. I had my AC recharged about 2 weeks ago, and I am fairly certain it was not doing it then.

Any thoughts?
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      06-17-2013, 11:00 PM   #2
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Here is a vid I just took of it. Not sure anymore it is full-bore on a cold start (vid is of a cold start). Was definitely full bore after the drive home from work. Temp outside at time of video was about 77F



At about 7 seconds it gets a little louder.

I should add, I have about 30,000 miles on the car. About 77F at time I took video (from cold start) I was also just told by someone that the fan will always run when the AC is on - which is obviously consistent with what I am seeing. I just don't think it was so loud in the past.

Last edited by foghat; 06-17-2013 at 11:05 PM..
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      06-17-2013, 11:06 PM   #3
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Get ready to change the water pump and thermostat...
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      06-17-2013, 11:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A145 View Post
Get ready to change the water pump and thermostat...
But again, if this were water pump related, shouldn't one expect the fan to be going even if AC is off?

An old thread talked about a possible cause for this being a faulty temp sensor. But I would think similar, why only when AC on?

And honestly, I only noticed this a couple days ago by chance. It is possible it has been doing this for weeks or longer.
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      06-18-2013, 08:22 AM   #5
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When i first crank mine it spins much faster and then slows down after a few seconds. Yesterday though I did notice mine was also turning full tilt while i was stopped at a store. of course it was 90* + outside. The second i got out of the car i realized why it was I almost melted before i got into the store because it was so hot.
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      06-18-2013, 12:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rking117 View Post
When i first crank mine it spins much faster and then slows down after a few seconds. Yesterday though I did notice mine was also turning full tilt while i was stopped at a store. of course it was 90* + outside. The second i got out of the car i realized why it was I almost melted before i got into the store because it was so hot.
Yes. that makes sense if it is so hot out. Not close to 90 for me.

Though this morning after the ride in to work, the fan was not runnign a loud/fast as it was yesterday. Is cooler out this morning, so makes sense. Even so, still seemed louder than what I remember in the past. Of course, I was never really paying attention before, so I dunno. Maybe this is nothing but normal operation.
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      06-18-2013, 12:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A145 View Post
Get ready to change the water pump and thermostat...
+2.

I am sorry to say... but this is classic water pump failure mode.

Maybe a dealer can check for a waterpump code. I also think IF you call BMW assistance they will come and read your car for any codes. At least that is what they do over here in DE for free. You get the first 30min free, after that you have to pay IF your car is out of warranty. But the first 30 min is free for them to come out and look at your car.
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      06-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
+2.

I am sorry to say... but this is classic water pump failure mode.

Maybe a dealer can check for a waterpump code. I also think IF you call BMW assistance they will come and read your car for any codes. At least that is what they do over here in DE for free. You get the first 30min free, after that you have to pay IF your car is out of warranty. But the first 30 min is free for them to come out and look at your car.
But again, even if it only does this with AC on? If water pump were not working 100% right now, wouldn't one expect the rad fan to be going crazy with AC off as well?

Especially given that it appears fan running while AC is on is standard operating procedure - though maybe not as fast as mine is running.
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      06-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #9
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What you say makes sense. But personally I could never sleep(nor drive too far) with the car knowing something might be wrong with the cooling system.

Have you checked the coolant level? (with the engine cold!) That would be my first step. Second would be to read for any thrown (shadow) codes.
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      06-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
What you say makes sense. But personally I could never sleep(nor drive too far) with the car knowing something might be wrong with the cooling system.

Have you checked the coolant level? (with the engine cold!) That would be my first step. Second would be to read for any thrown (shadow) codes.
I know what you mean. Believe me. It was alarming when I first noticed the fan running so fast. But now that I think about it, it is entirely possible it has been doing this for weeks or longer. On friday (while it turns out, I was down .75L of coolant) I actually did 3 back to back 3rd gear pulls for an etune I am having done. No problems at all. Being able to do that makes me feel a little better about everything.

I initially thought the coolant level was the issue as it was reading low. Turns out it was down about .75L. Topped that up and level is fine now, but fan still going. I think I need to pay a bit more attention to what is going on vs. weather. Like I said above, it was a little cooler this morning and the fan was not running as fast after a 20 minute drive to work. And again only runs with AC on.

Do you know what is the best tool (with reasonable price) is that will read shadow codes? As I noted, AP finds nothing.
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      06-18-2013, 02:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foghat View Post
I know what you mean. Believe me. It was alarming when I first noticed the fan running so fast. But now that I think about it, it is entirely possible it has been doing this for weeks or longer. On Friday (while it turns out, I was down .75L of coolant) I actually did 3 back to back 3rd gear pulls for an etune I am having done. No problems at all. Being able to do that makes me feel a little better about everything...

Perhaps your tuner has some of the coding messed up when the AC in on. Maybe they are running your radiator fan on MAX on purpose. ??? I would ask them.

I never hear my radiator fan running. But then again it only gets up to about 93'F over here for only a few days per year. Most days we have temps in the 70's and 80's 'F.
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      06-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Perhaps your tuner has some of the coding messed up when the AC in on. Maybe they are running your radiator fan on MAX on purpose. ??? I would ask them.

I never hear my radiator fan running. But then again it only gets up to about 93'F over here for only a few days per year. Most days we have temps in the 70's and 80's 'F.
I will ask. I did try switch back to the canned cobb tune (stage 2+fmic aggressive) and it did the same thing. Perhaps I will try map 0 which is supposed to be stock like and see if it still does it.

We are usually 70's and 80's as well. Maybe this is tune related. Will look into. At any rate, I think i know how which variable to select to monitor water temp on my AP. Will do that on the ride home today and see what it looks like.
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      06-18-2013, 03:38 PM   #13
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I have also read it could be the temp sensor that is buggered up. Maybe I'll start there.
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      06-18-2013, 09:59 PM   #14
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So after a bit more investigation, I am not sure if things are working 100% the way they should but I am quite certain the issue does not lie with the water pump or thermostat. Monitored coolant/water temps on the way home today. With AC on and off. Temps stayed between 212-214 for the most part, got as high as 218F. Within normal ranges.

I have also determined that not only does the fan go on and off when i turn the AC on and off, the rad fan also increases and decreases in speed based on the AC fan speed. 99% sure my issue (if I even have one) is tied to the AC operation.

I also set my overall AC intensity to soft (was on high/intense). this helped a bit too. now fan is not jet engine loud after cold/warmish start. It is still there though. may have always been like this. I am just not sure anymore.

Going to leave things be for now.
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      06-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
...But personally I could never sleep(nor drive too far) with the car knowing something might be wrong with the cooling system...
in my E85 Z4 my water pump failed and the car went into limp mode. I of course only drove it like a few 1000 feet after that and shut it down and called Road Side Assistance. No harm at all to the engine or anythng. Now if i were going on a long trip then that might have been an issue.

I am waiting on my E89 Z4 and my E82 1 to do the same thing. (more fearful than anything as it is like rolling dice - 7 - 7 i need a 7 ohhh crap blown the head gasket kinda dice playing)
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      06-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foghat View Post
...Monitored coolant/water temps on the way home today. With AC on and off. Temps stayed between 212-214 for the most part, got as high as 218F. Within normal ranges...
I have to assume that is oil temp right?

212-218*F is over heated for water temp. The highest you should get in water temp s about 180-190* F.

Oil temp is a different story
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      06-19-2013, 11:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rking117 View Post

I am waiting on my E89 Z4 and my E82 1 to do the same thing. (more fearful than anything as it is like rolling dice - 7 - 7 i need a 7 ohhh crap blown the head gasket kinda dice playing)

Why take your chances and roll the dice? Just buy a new water pump (+ thermostat) and be done with it. Just like on older BMW's... after say 70K or 80K... one needs to overhaul the cooling system.
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      06-19-2013, 12:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rking117 View Post
I have to assume that is oil temp right?

212-218*F is over heated for water temp. The highest you should get in water temp s about 180-190* F.

Oil temp is a different story

Yes, I am talking coolant. I dunno.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688099

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673833

I think I am fine. This morning on the way to work it hovered around 208F. It was cooler out.

If car was overheating, I'd expect to see lights and also the temp wouldn't have stabilized where it did.
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      08-18-2013, 04:58 PM   #19
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I'm having this exact same problem! I'm sensitive to noises in my car so I know it only started a few weeks ago. I only have 22,000 miles on the car. Did you ever get yours checked out? What was the problem? I'm probably going to take mine to the dealer next week and have it checked out, but I'd like to know what the problem is first so they don't try to upsell me on some repair I don't need. I'm out of warranty so I'd like to spend as little as possible on getting this fixed.
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      08-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I'm having this exact same problem! I'm sensitive to noises in my car so I know it only started a few weeks ago. I only have 22,000 miles on the car. Did you ever get yours checked out? What was the problem?
Sounds like its your waterpump electronic thermostatt. But generally when the high speed of the fan comes on like that - the waterpump fails within a few minutes.

Your car is a 2008 so the waterpump should be replaced. I have not seen many of those '08 or '09 car go past 60K or 70K miles.

e8x electric waterpump failure poll...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=798195




Quote:
I'm probably going to take mine to the dealer next week and have it checked out, but I'd like to know what the problem is first so they don't try to upsell me on some repair I don't need. I'm out of warranty so I'd like to spend as little as possible on getting this fixed.
Going to the dealer is never cheap. A new water pump there will be around $1,400 vs about $700 at an indi shop. You can buy the parts online for about $500 and do the job yourself or have your indi do it.

Good Luck,
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      08-18-2013, 05:15 PM   #21
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I don't think it's the water pump. First off the car only has 22k miles on it. Secondly I took a trip last weekend, driving over 300 miles in it, and other then the noise it was fine. If there was a problem with the pump I'm sure it would have gone into limp mode by now.

Also, like the original poster, if I turn the car on for the first time that day, just sitting in my garage with an ambient temp of 70F, the fan will start running at full speed within a few seconds if the A/C is on. But as soon as I turn off the A/C the fan quiets down after a few seconds. Then if I turn it back on the fan starts running at full speed again.

So whatever this is does not seem to be tied directly to the actual temp of the car. It seems to be getting some sort of signal from the A/C that's telling it to run full speed like that. Perhaps a problem with the thermostat? Is there a special temp sensor that only gets checked when the A/C is running?
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      08-18-2013, 05:37 PM   #22
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Another thought I had.... Maybe the fan is just noisy? Perhaps it always runs faster when the A/C is on and it's recently just gotten noisier (maybe it's failing?) when running at higher RPMs?
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