The official "Ask a cop/deputy anything!" thread

[BMWGUYinCO]

Article on this subject (re: "...if there was an armed resource officer or teacher in Uvalde, both of those heartbreaking shootings would have been brought to an end...") in my local news website....I'm not posting this as a for/against stance, just for informational purposes:

https://kdvr.com/news/nationalworld-...hat-data-says/

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by other_evolved

There were two armed officers who failed to stop the Uvalde shooter, if current stories are accurate.

He was stopped by a Border Patrol Agent who was on scene.

[///d]

Originally Posted by other_evolved

There were two armed officers who failed to stop the Uvalde shooter, if current stories are accurate.

Yeah I read that one officer was unsuccessful in stopping the guy. I have not read anything in regards to how that confrontation played out. I imagine those details will come out eventually.

What really irritates me is all the signs that this dude was off his rocker and capable of doing something horrible, yet no one did anything about it. It's like he was intentionally trying to get someone to notice what he was about to do. Students are coming forward and releasing message exchanges with him that would have made me immediately notify the police.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

He was stopped by a Border Patrol Agent who was on scene.

Correct...eventually. But, according to news stories he did encounter a guard and they became "engaged", but regrettably that did not stop him from taking 21 innocent lives. The way I read it, he had barricaded himself in a classroom with those kids and teachers, and only after the carnage stopped, did police and the border patrol agent manage to break in and kill him:

"The suspect was immediately engaged outside the building as he approached the school by a Uvalde Independent School District police officer, who was shot by the suspect, the sources said.

After that, the suspect entered the school, barricaded himself in a classroom and allegedly opened fire, killing 18 students, who were mainly third- and fourth-graders, as well as one teacher... " Note that the information has since been updated to 19 kids and 2 teachers.

"There, he traded gunfire with Uvalde ISD officer and Border Patrol Tactical Unit agents, a number of whom have children who attend the school, according to the sources. The Border Patrol agents responded to a law enforcement request for assistance.

Investigators are going through ballistics to determine who fired the shot that killed the suspect. "
Again, I'm not trying to stage a for/against stance here, just reporting facts as I understand them...

[other_evolved]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

He was stopped by a Border Patrol Agent who was on scene.

Importantly, after he murdered a bunch of kids.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

Correct...eventually. But, according to news stories he did encounter an armed guard and they engaged in gunfire, but regrettably that did not stop him from taking 21 innocent lives. The way I read it, he had barricaded himself in a classroom with those kids and teachers, and only after the carnage stopped, did police and the border patrol agent manage to break in and kill him:

"The suspect was immediately engaged outside the building as he approached the school by a Uvalde Independent School District police officer, who was shot by the suspect, the sources said.

After that, the suspect entered the school, barricaded himself in a classroom and allegedly opened fire, killing 18 students, who were mainly third- and fourth-graders, as well as one teacher... " Note that the information has since been updated to 19 kids and 2 teachers.

"There, he traded gunfire with Uvalde ISD officer and Border Patrol Tactical Unit agents, a number of whom have children who attend the school, according to the sources. The Border Patrol agents responded to a law enforcement request for assistance.

Investigators are going through ballistics to determine who fired the shot that killed the suspect. "
Again, I'm not trying to stage a for/against stance here, just reporting facts as I understand them...

You do realize that we don't just go running into barricaded situations, right? On my department we have a whole list of things that need to be completed before we even attempt to enter.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by other_evolved

Importantly, after he murdered a bunch of kids.

Yes, unfortunately law enforcement is reactive and the laws are written that way. I wish we could take preemptive action, but doing so will land us in prison (…especially with the socio-political anti-law enforcement climate we are in now). Every year more and more laws are passed that castrate law enforcement.

[Murf the Surf]

And here is the rub, TV & movies etc drive the Monday morning quarter backs. There are procedures that have been developed over decades, the Columbine shooting changed the way police respond. The fact remains that there are still procedures that are in place, and human nature. It's easy to say if "I was there with my CCW, I would've ended it"....when you are dealing with a person armed with a long gun and who is goal oriented you will lose with a small calibre side arm more than 50% of the time. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not the time to point fingers, lay blame or criticize the actions of those who responded.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

And here is the rub, TV & movies etc drive the Monday morning quarter backs. There are procedures that have been developed over decades, the Columbine shooting changed the way police respond. The fact remains that there are still procedures that are in place, and human nature. It's easy to say if "I was there with my CCW, I would've ended it"....when you are dealing with a person armed with a long gun and who is goal oriented you will lose with a small calibre side arm more than 50% of the time. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not the time to point fingers, lay blame or criticize the actions of those who responded.

Well said brother.

[Jklotz]

Such a tragedy. Really breaks my heart. I wasn't there, but I can't imagine any cop that was there that wouldn't have done anything possible to save those lives.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Jklotz

Such a tragedy. Really breaks my heart. I wasn't there, but I can't imagine any cop that was there that wouldn't have done anything possible to save those lives.

A cop will die trying to save someone. It's just how we're built. It saddens me that the climate we are in is causing officers to second guess what is in their nature because they fear going to prison and/or losing their livelihood for acting in good faith and trying to do the right thing. I would be lying if I said I haven't been there myself. It's a shitty feeling……..extremely shitty when you find yourself saying, "If I just take a few extra minutes to arrive on scene, maybe the perpetrator will be gone, I won't get into a shooting and I'll last another day without being terminated or worse." Unfortunately that is the real internal dialogue taking place in officers' heads when they are dispatched priority or emergent calls where a use of force could occur. The protector in me wants to get the bad guy and save the victimized, but the preservationist in me is relieved when the bad guy is gone before I arrive on scene.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

A cop will die trying to save someone. It's just how we're built. It saddens me that the climate we are in is causing officers to second guess what is in their nature because they fear going to prison and/or losing their livelihood for acting in good faith and trying to do the right thing. I would be lying if I said I haven't been there myself. It's a shitty feeling……..extremely shitty when you find yourself saying, "If I just take an extra few minutes to arrive on scene, maybe the perpetrator will be gone, I won't get into a shooting and I'll last another day without being terminated or worse." Unfortunately that is the real internal dialogue taking place in officers' heads when they are dispatched priority or emergent calls where a use of force could occur.

The reality is, spin the block or slow down are real things. I remember we'd chase dealers all the time, and then they started to do ambushes on the officers chasing them.....I have to ask myself why am I running after a guy for dealing some rock cocaine, he will likely get time served after his bail hearing but I might get shot running around a corner in the projects after him......given the lack of support from the media, public and government/department I just don't see the percentage in it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The reality is, spin the block or slow down are real things. I remember we'd chase dealers all the time, and then they started to do ambushes on the officers chasing them.....I have to ask myself why am I running after a guy for dealing some rock cocaine, he will likely get time served after his bail hearing but I might get shot running around a corner in the projects after him......given the lack of support from the media, public and government/department I just don't see the percentage in it.

That's where I'm at honestly. It's a risk assessment every call. At this point if it's not a baby in medical distress or a partner in a fight for his life, I drive the speed limit and take my time (…within reason).

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's where I'm at honestly. It's a risk assessment every call. At this point if it's not a baby in medical distress or a partner in a fight for his life, I drive the speed limit and take my time (…within reason).

I don't know if you've heard these acronyms but they've been around since before I came on the job.

FIDO : Fuck It, Drive Off

WANGO : We Are Not Getting Out

DILLIGAF: Do I Look Like I Give A Fuck

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I don't know if you've heard these acronyms but they've been around since before I came on the job.

FIDO : Fuck It, Drive Off

WANGO : We Are Not Getting Out

DILLIGAF: Do I Look Like I Give A Fuck

I've never heard those, but now they are stored in my mental file box.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've never heard those, but now they are stored in my mental file box.

Feel free to use them brother. I can still hear the conversation in the Scout Car.....Stand by for the hot shot, sound of Gun Shots.....one of us would say DILLIGAF or FIDO.....

FIDO actually made it to the media.

Always would respond to kids, elders etc but the sad reality was there was no support if you stuck your neck out so some calls got less priority than they probably deserved.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Just to set the record here, I FULLY support and stand behind our law enforcement agencies.
In no way were my posts meant to take a stand one way or another as I stated - I was just providing information as I was digesting it on the subject of "if this had happened in a carry state and if there was an armed resource officer or teacher in Uvalde, both of those heartbreaking shootings would have been brought to an end before so many were killed" topic.

I absolutely know it's not as easy as just charging into a situation to confront a heavily armed maniac(s). Hope no one took any of my comments out of context here.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

Just to set the record here, I FULLY support and stand behind our law enforcement agencies.
In no way were my posts meant to take a stand one way or another as I stated - I was just providing information as I was digesting it on the subject of "if this had happened in a carry state and if there was an armed resource officer or teacher in Uvalde, both of those heartbreaking shootings would have been brought to an end before so many were killed" topic.

I absolutely know it's not as easy as just charging into a situation to confront a heavily armed maniac(s). Hope no one took any of my comments out of context here.

No offence taken by me. I have seen a lot of stuff on social media that seems to criticize the officers on scene for not immediately rushing in. My comments were to simply shine a light on some of the dynamics at play.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

No offence taken by me. I have seen a lot of stuff on social media that seems to criticize the officers on scene for not immediately rushing in. My comments were to simply shine a light on some of the dynamics at play.

Same here. No offense taken and this is a thread intended to provide perspective.

[UncleWede]

Seems you officers also got similar training to when I went thru the water safety/lifeguard training: Don't become ANOTHER victim.

Generally, if the potential shooter knows this is not a soft target, that there is an armed resource officer at the school entrance, he is going to reconsider his plan to attack a school.

But what is really sad is that this kid got no help other than suicide by cop, after dishing out a shitload of pain himself. The fact he tried to whack gma makes me think he had no nuclear family. Who knows (maybe we will soon) what tragedy lead him to be living with gma.

And smart gun laws: he LEGALLY bought the guns, because nobody spoke up that he was in a mental state that was conducive to violence.

But lets stop the manufacture of guns, that will fix it

[Sedan_Clan]

I mean…..


….these statements aren't wrong. Virtue signaling will make your head spin.

[M5Rick]

19 gone so the chain of public thought is that officers were slow but they must realise the killer can't be neutralised in a flash.