1M S65 swap. What would it take?

[Mahlzeit]

@ Ozinaldo - Don't get me wrong, I love my 1M's character. I don't consider it flawed - I consider it soul-ful. I can drive it in a relaxed, drama-less fashion - letting the torque suck me into the horizon. Or I treat it like a bastard and slap it around. Damned fun. And best of all I don't NEED to change anything to meet my goals.

Now, I would LIKE it a bit lower, and I would LIKE it to have a sexy NA V8 for above mentioned reasons + the exhaust sound.

Assuming and unlimited budget - a 1M + S65, OEM+ type of build in my opinion would actually enhance value. Don't imagine a hacked-up, blinged-out, SC'ed, slammed car on 20"s. Rather a 1M, with OEM appearance and a sport-spring level drop w/ OEM-clean S65 and full gauges. That's the kind of car I could see Leno put in his garage. That's the kind of 1M I would build if I could.

In the meantime I guess I'll have to suffer.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Mahlzeit

@ Ozinaldo - Don't get me wrong, I love my 1M's character. I don't consider it flawed - I consider it soul-ful. I can drive it in a relaxed, drama-less fashion - letting the torque suck me into the horizon. Or I treat it like a bastard and slap it around. Damned fun. And best of all I don't NEED to change anything to meet my goals.

Now, I would LIKE it a bit lower, and I would LIKE it to have a sexy NA V8 for above mentioned reasons + the exhaust sound.

Assuming and unlimited budget - a 1M + S65, OEM+ type of build in my opinion would actually enhance value. Don't imagine a hacked-up, blinged-out, SC'ed, slammed car on 20"s. Rather a 1M, with OEM appearance and a sport-spring level drop w/ OEM-clean S65 and full gauges. That's the kind of car I could see Leno put in his garage. That's the kind of 1M I would build if I could.

In the meantime I guess I'll have to suffer.

LONG POST!

Fair enough. It's a thin line my friend, all of us can find ourselves where you are and what you feel anytime. Impossible not to desire and appreciate the sound and natural response of S65 anyway.

Yesterday and today I was watching over and over the video of EVO review (back in April 2012) of the world exclusive one-off Pagani Zonda 760 RS and the sound was

Why I am obsessed with that crazy masterpiece this much? Well, the car apparently belongs to a Chilean and I apparently just had a barbecue last Sunday with his brother and his nephew after meeting the family (coincidently) in a restaurant on a seaside resort town; I was approached by them first, and asked if I am willing to sell my car, right away! My answer was a definite "No" but that started a friendly chatting and I was invited to share a table with them. Here is what else this uncle has in his poor little garage: amongst others of course, a 959, Carrera GT, Enzo, F40, F50, 288 GTO and two more Paganis. Saw the actual photos and my next personal project is to be invited to uncle's garage

The brother and nephew's own garage (where I had the barbecue last Sunday) was occupied with Aston Martin DB9, Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 V spec-II Nür (yes that one), Acura NS-X, Range Rover, 335i and a beautiful green BMW 1502. After the barbecue I had the courage or shamelessness to ask a ride in the Skyline GT-R as a passanger of course, was kindly granted to do that and moreover, the NS-X was following us and on the way back I passed to the NS-X to experience both back to back as if there is no tomorrow. Both crazy good cars but Skyline seemed to me more rough and difficult car with old twin-turbo technology, a bit too explosive maybe, while the NS-X was a superbly balanced mid engine rwd masterpiece and it felt both easier to go fast, more precise and more comfortable than the Nissan, unless when we pass any kind of speed bumps, basically we were sitting on the tarmac in the NS-X. They felt similar in terms of overall quickness, compared to each other and to my 1M. I could say 1M would feel quicker from both while you make a passing move, in-gear flexibility-wise.

So I just had this mental drug and I know more or less what you mean

Still I am not selling the 1M or modding it with a different engine though, my choice is to keep it as it is as long as I can.

[Mahlzeit]

Wow - sounds like a hell of a chance encounter. Glad you were able to take advantage!

The reality is I will never undertake this sort of motor-swap project for all sorts of reasons. And. I'll continue to enjoy the car I drove to work this morning.

Cheers!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

world exclusive one-off Pagani Zonda 760 RS [...] a 959, Carrera GT, Enzo, F40, F50, 288 GTO and two more Paganis [...]Aston Martin DB9, Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 V spec-II Nür (yes that one), Acura NS-X, Range Rover, 335i and a beautiful green BMW 1502

Off Topic: the last couple of years you can also spot many super cars in London. Especially flown in to roam the posh Knightsbridge area for about three months (Summer season).

Summer 2011 (London):

Summer 2012 (London & Monte Carlo):

Recently a 45 minute documentary was aired about local Londoners complaining about the road behavior of some of the drivers. It was posted earlier this week in the OT section of 1addicts:
see http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788675 (HD video)(*)

(*) Just noticed that Channel 4 has blocked the YouTube video of their documentary on copyright grounds. It's made available through their website (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/m...boy-racers/4od) (viewing depends on location/area).

[BrokenVert]

When I lived in london a man in the apartment complex next to mine would drive his TVR Tuscan out every morning at 730.
I was woken up every morning at 730...its a hell of an alarm clock.

And this wasnt even knightsbridge...it was Angel.


Not to even mention the amount of supercars that would blaze down city road towards the old street roundabout.

Couldnt cycle more than a half mile without seeing something. Heres a short list pf the cars that I know were garaged within a block of me.

Murchialago. Corvette ZR1. AM DBS. AM V12 Vantage. 458. 430 Scud. The TVR. And a ford GT. Forgot the balboni gallardo and the gallardo spyder too...

[mlcgd21]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

+1 Why mess with a near perfect car... rather buy an M3 and sell the 1M

+2, if I wanted the S65 I would've bought M3 instead of the 1M

[Mahlzeit]

The 1M is more perfect than the M3. The 1M could be more perfect than it is.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Mahlzeit

The 1M is more perfect than the M3. The 1M could be more perfect than it is.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

"There are two kinds of perfect: the one you can never achieve, and the other, by just being yourself." (Lauren King)

[mlcgd21]

Originally Posted by Artemis

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

That's actually very true, nice one

[Dan Parker]

Interesting conversation here.

During one of my last DE's with the 1M I had a chance to hop in my friends 997 GT3 (3.8) for a few laps. After driving the 1M for 3 20 minute sessions and having a great time it was an awesome feeling to have the GT3's engine pull my guts and brain back in a way that made me a little dizzy. When I stepped out of the Porsche I had to look at it with different eyes. I know this is a bit off topic vs. the S65 transplant theory but the GT3 & S65 are very close in power and redline. Obviously, they are completely different cars but on track the high revving engine was a glorious thing compared to the N54. For every day street driving the N54 is an awesome kit but on track there's nothing like an epic normally aspirated engine that pulls to redline like it's very angry.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Dan Parker

Interesting conversation here.

During one of my last DE's with the 1M I had a chance to hop in my friends 997 GT3 (3.8) for a few laps. After driving the 1M for 3 20 minute sessions and having a great time it was an awesome feeling to have the GT3's engine pull my guts and brain back in a way that made me a little dizzy. When I stepped out of the Porsche I had to look at it with different eyes. I know this is a bit off topic vs. the S65 transplant theory but the GT3 & S65 are very close in power and redline. Obviously, they are completely different cars but on track the high revving engine was a glorious thing compared to the N54. For every day street driving the N54 is an awesome kit but on track there's nothing like an epic normally aspirated engine that pulls to redline like it's very angry.

Agreed with the track/racing quality of NA engines; N54 as a turbo engine with overboost function is kind of like a auto gear box, there is always a degree of uncertainity about it since it decides itself what to deliver and when, however S65 and other similar engines are totally connected to driver input and driver input only, the more you push the more you get and vice versa. Full control for the driver which is everything on a race track.

"Perfect" would be to have both M3 (or a GT3) and 1M

[Mahlzeit]

Early in my 1M ownership, it appeared I could sell my 1M for $80k+. For about 48 hours I actually thought I could use my 1M to get into a 997 GT3. Cash neutral.

Then reality set in.

Again though the GT3 isn't perfect in different ways than BMWs. No rear seats to share the petrol-love w/ my boys,... and my sports gear would have to ride w/ me in the cabin.

Perfection would be owning:

Tesla S for daily commute chores via the HOV lane.
GT3 for solo weekend romps and track work.
1M for fun trips, around town w/ my boys.
Modern Diesel SUV for roadtrips.

oh and maybe an e36 track rat,.... w/ an LSx swap.

oh, and,.....

[BrokenVert]

^ ive got some of those bases covered.

Electric vehicles are great...and riding solo in the hov lane is a great perk of the E

[JimD]

I don't think gas mileage will be any big factor in this sort of discussion but a disadvantage of the S65 is gas mileage. It felt great on the performance center track when I did the M school a couple years ago. It also seemed like it would feel better on a track than the street because of torque. I liked it better than the M5 and M6 I think because of weight. The bigger cars just seemed too isolated. I've ridden in the 1M but not driven it. I think it would be more fun than the M3 with or without the S65. When you keep the rpm up the M3 lept from corner to corner. The 1M does too but it's optimum rpm range is about 2K lower. The flat torque curve of the 1M should make it less sensitive to which gear you are in. I think I'd rather have the n54 because of the torque for day-to-day and the gas mileage for normal commuting. But for track only use, the S65 would be a hoot.

Jim

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

"Perfect" would be to have both M3 (or a GT3) and 1M

Perfect is 1M with S65. M3 is a pig.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Agreed with the track/racing quality of NA engines; N54 as a turbo engine with overboost function is kind of like a auto gear box, there is always a degree of uncertainity about it since it decides itself what to deliver and when, however S65 and other similar engines are totally connected to driver input and driver input only, the more you push the more you get and vice versa. Full control for the driver which is everything on a race track.

"Perfect" would be to have both M3 (or a GT3) and 1M

Easy enough to eliminate overboost --and enjoy the availabililty of higher boost at all times -- by going to an aftermarket tune (Cobb, JB or Procede).

Neil

[mlcgd21]

Perfect would be 1M for daily driving and GT3 3.8 for the weekends, that would be something

[Dan Parker]

Cannot argue with Neil. O'Fest baby!

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Perfect is 1M with S65. M3 is a pig.

A base 1M is only 85 kg. (very slightly fat uncle as a passenger) lighter than a base E92 M3 (manual) with quite comparable (stripped) equipment in Europe and most parts of the World, the only noticeable difference is all M3s come with power seats, so if manual seats would be possible then real difference would be even less than that 85 kg. maybe 70-75 kg. only (passenger uncle in diet). Which is the apples to apples weight comparison imho. 85kg. is not bad but not that great thinking the clearly smaller size of the 1M. 1M is not really a light car for its size, so if M3 is a pig as you put it, 1M is pig(gy) too

I find size more of a problem with M3 than the weight.

I believe that with a S65 in, 1M would start feeling its weight much more than it does now.

So I still want both as they are, if I can't then I stick with the 1M as it is

[PyratOne]

great debate, guys, lets keep it going

I'll update the OP. My hopes is that someone can use this thread as a resource to actually make the swap. I'd love to see it


Just for fun I looked on www.realoem.com to see if I could find cost of NEW S65. Sure enough, some info there

Realoem S65 from a E92 ("short engine")
01 Rmfd short engine S65B40A 1 11000442124 $23,885.95


6MT gearbox
01 Rmfd-6 speed gearbox GS6-53DZ - TJGC 1 23002283601 $4,468.06


No prices available for NEW N54t


So, looks like a new engine + gearbox is going to run at least $28K

[Sweden140]

E81 converted with S65

A few pictures of the build in this Swedish thread. He writes that it is a stock s65 apart from remapping:
http://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?...er=asc&start=0

[PyratOne]

^^Awesome thread, incredible machine!! Thanks for the post Sweden140

Now, where did I put my Swedish:English dictionary??