BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      02-12-2018, 11:34 PM   #1
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1M reputation vs 135i?

So this has been on my mind for quite a while and I figured I'd ask here. Every review of the 1M says that the car is extremely fun and amazing but twitch and snappy and wants to kill you. But the 135i reviews never share this sentiment. Why is it that the 1M has the reputation of being a handful to drive but the 135i doesn't? The 1M has an infinitely better suspension, LSD, tighter handling, wider track, etc with the same power that a ppk 135i would have. Do any of you have any thoughts on this?
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      02-13-2018, 07:35 AM   #2
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More torque, stiffer suspension, smaller aspect ratio tyre, proper differential.

I'd imagine the stability control program is more lax even in full on mode, but I'm sure some owners will be along to confirm!

All these things would add up to a twitchier car vs a 135i.

Last edited by Sam_M; 02-13-2018 at 07:41 AM..
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      02-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
So this has been on my mind for quite a while and I figured I'd ask here. Every review of the 1M says that the car is extremely fun and amazing but twitch and snappy and wants to kill you. But the 135i reviews never share this sentiment. Why is it that the 1M has the reputation of being a handful to drive but the 135i doesn't? The 1M has an infinitely better suspension, LSD, tighter handling, wider track, etc with the same power that a ppk 135i would have. Do any of you have any thoughts on this?
The 1M does not have the same power or power delivery as a 135i with PPK.

I had a 135i Coupe with PPK just traded in towards an M2 that I will receive shortly. I also own a 135is convertible which has PPK2, and a 1M. No comparison between the 1M and either of these other cars.
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      02-13-2018, 12:07 PM   #4
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The snappier nature is probably to do with it's wider track width. Think how stable a bus is, and then how twitchy a go-kart is; an extreme case, but gives the right idea. It also has a much quicker steering rack, which also makes it twitchy.
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      02-13-2018, 01:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
The snappier nature is probably to do with it's wider track width. Think how stable a bus is, and then how twitchy a go-kart is; an extreme case, but gives the right idea. It also has a much quicker steering rack, which also makes it twitchy.
Yeah, this. Though my Active Steering has even quicker steering ration than the M rack. One point for the lowly 135i.
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      02-13-2018, 01:30 PM   #6
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I find my car to be a little snappy, albeit after mods. The wider front tires and just overall stiffer suspension is going to make it a bit twitchier. It was a real eye opener to drive the M2 and experience just how planted it was compared to the 135.
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      02-13-2018, 01:34 PM   #7
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It depends on the context. My guess is the common comparison to the 1m is a m3. Wide track swb cars are usually snappy compared to lwb cars.
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      02-13-2018, 01:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
The 1M does not have the same power or power delivery as a 135i with PPK.

I had a 135i Coupe with PPK just traded in towards an M2 that I will receive shortly. I also own a 135is convertible which has PPK2, and a 1M. No comparison between the 1M and either of these other cars.

135is and 135i w/PPK - 320 hp and 332 lb-ft torque for automatic equipped models (317 lb-ft for manual and dual clutch equipped models)

1M - 335 hp and 332 lb-ft torque (370 lb-ft in short bursts)

Above and beyond the numbers, I'm sure the 1M is much quicker than a 135is or a PPK equipped 135i. Not that speed is all that matters. From what I've read, the 1M is a very different car than the 135i/135is.
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      02-13-2018, 04:50 PM   #9
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Well, a mint 2011 135i will cost you ~$20K vs $50K+ for a 1M.
It better be 3 times the car, and not just by reputation.
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      02-14-2018, 08:45 AM   #10
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All of the above having been said, an unmodified 135i has more than enough power and acceleration for any conceivable street use. The exhaust note of a 135is is probably better than that from a 1M, for aficionados of that sort of thing. Just doing a PPK flash does improve the exhaust note of a stock 135i, but it's nowhere near as good as on the "is." The EPS on most new BMWs sucks in comparison to that on any E82/E88 1-Series vehicle. The EPS on the M2 is better, and probably "more precise" than on a 1-Series car, however the feedback to the driver is pretty mediocre nonetheless.
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      02-14-2018, 11:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
All of the above having been said, an unmodified 135i has more than enough power and acceleration for any conceivable street use. The exhaust note of a 135is is probably better than that from a 1M, for aficionados of that sort of thing. Just doing a PPK flash does improve the exhaust note of a stock 135i, but it's nowhere near as good as on the "is." The EPS on most new BMWs sucks in comparison to that on any E82/E88 1-Series vehicle. The EPS on the M2 is better, and probably "more precise" than on a 1-Series car, however the feedback to the driver is pretty mediocre nonetheless

Adding the PPK to a stock 135i will only get the exhaust burbling sound in engine overrun (plus small increase in hp and tq), but the exhaust tone will be the same.

Adding both the Performance Exhaust and the PPK to a stock 135i will improve the exhaust tone and increase the volume, plus add the sporty exhaust burbling, and the car will sound just like a 135is, since those 2 items are what give the 135is it's special sound.

I added these 2 items to my car back in 2011 one at a time and could distinctly hear what each added to the sound of my exhaust, plus the small increase in power from PPK. Awesome sound and great combination.
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      02-14-2018, 12:57 PM   #12
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To justify a car selling for $15K more than a 135i they have to make gleaming reviews. Otherwise everyone will question if the extra money is justified.
Reviews are biased.

But, those who did buy a 1M where smarter than the 135i crowd. They can drive without fear of depreciation. One of the very few modern cars that's happened with.
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      02-17-2018, 02:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Yeah, this. Though my Active Steering has even quicker steering ration than the M rack. One point for the lowly 135i.
You know that for a fact ?
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      02-17-2018, 10:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
So this has been on my mind for quite a while and I figured I'd ask here. Every review of the 1M says that the car is extremely fun and amazing but twitch and snappy and wants to kill you. But the 135i reviews never share this sentiment. Why is it that the 1M has the reputation of being a handful to drive but the 135i doesn't? The 1M has an infinitely better suspension, LSD, tighter handling, wider track, etc with the same power that a ppk 135i would have. Do any of you have any thoughts on this?
The suspension is stiffer and the diff is 100% lock diff. It also has a lighter flywheel and more torque so the motor revs very quickly and if you spin the wheels, it will spin both wheels whereas the 135 doesn't have a full lock diff so one wheel doesn't lose traction. The steering is also much quicker than 135i. It uses a completely different rack from the E90 M3 with faster ratio. The combination of faster revving, potential to spin both rear wheels and stiffer suspension can make it a handful.
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      02-17-2018, 11:06 PM   #15
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135i as a driver's sport coupe is underrated. With just moderate suspension upgrades and PPK, Dinan or MHD tune we have a really great car.

That said there is always something more special about the M version.
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      02-18-2018, 02:17 AM   #16
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      02-18-2018, 12:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
135i as a driver's sport coupe is underrated. With just moderate suspension upgrades and PPK, Dinan or MHD tune we have a really great car.

That said there is always something more special about the M version.
I know what you mean but I don't think the 135i is really underrated. I and most people have a high opinion of the 135i. One advantage the 135i has over the 1M is that you got an N55 version with slightly less lag. I wanted a 135i when it came out and there is still a writeup I made on here back in 2008 or so where I was frothing at the mouth to drive one and trade in my E46 for it but BMW USA gooned it. They only offered vinyl and leather options in the USA which from a driving dynamics perspective are the same thing...slippery and hot. The rack was slow and didn't have as much feedback as the E46 I had at the time. Also at the time I drove it had the N54 motor which everyone had said no lag at all and BMW had said the 135i was going to be a club racer type. The combination of these expectations left me dissapointed when it did in fact have lag, the feedback was more muted than E46 and no cloth option...so much for club racer. And finally no LSD option. So at the time I left dissapointed with 135i based on expectations. However, I still think it is a great car and everyone I know does too. I think the 128i is underrated. Lighter, no lag, great sound and if ordered with manual seats, MT, sunroof delete and M-Sport a brilliant car.

135i is awesome when configured correctly. I see the 135i to 1M as I see the E46 ZHP to E46 M3. Not full blown M car but an amazing machine....and I still own and daily drive my ZHP.

The only issue I have with 135i v 1M is the disinformation put out there by a few 135i owners that minimize the differences between the two versions. Yes, you can make a 135i as fast with a tune and engine mods and brake mods and diff mods ,etc But as I said many here just say the 1M is a 135i with a tune and wholly discount very significant differences betwen the two.

The rack is different and faster, the suspension is all aluminum even the shocks and struts. The flywheel is lighter it has an extra radiator a full lock diff, wider body and track. Bigger brakes and wheels, yet weighs less than 135i with the bigger components.

As far as Randy Pobst hating it, yes he did and that is really a handful of guys that hated it vs the vast majority of people that loved it. Even Chris Harris bought one and paid "silly money" for one. Randy hated it as a track car. And it is not the best track car. What makes the 1M special is that it's naughty and a little scary around town and back roads. It makes the drives memorable. So judged as a pure track car, it is not the best in stock trim. My guess is that Randy wouldn't like the 135i in stock trim either as it is heavier and the brakes tended to have issues on the track.

So really the 135i is considered by many to be an amazing car and part of the last of BMWs small, powerful cars along with the 128i but I don't know of anyone that underestimates or underrates a 135i.
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      02-18-2018, 01:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
135i as a driver's sport coupe is underrated. With just moderate suspension upgrades and PPK, Dinan or MHD tune we have a really great car.

That said there is always something more special about the M version.
I know what you mean but I don't think the 135i is really underrated. I and most people have a high opinion of the 135i. One advantage the 135i has over the 1M is that you got an N55 version with slightly less lag. I wanted a 135i when it came out and there is still a writeup I made on here back in 2008 or so where I was frothing at the mouth to drive one and trade in my E46 for it but BMW USA gooned it. They only offered vinyl and leather options in the USA which from a driving dynamics perspective are the same thing...slippery and hot. The rack was slow and didn't have as much feedback as the E46 I had at the time. Also at the time I drove it had the N54 motor which everyone had said no lag at all and BMW had said the 135i was going to be a club racer type. The combination of these expectations left me dissapointed when it did in fact have lag, the feedback was more muted than E46 and no cloth option...so much for club racer. And finally no LSD option. So at the time I left dissapointed with 135i based on expectations. However, I still think it is a great car and everyone I know does too. I think the 128i is underrated. Lighter, no lag, great sound and if ordered with manual seats, MT, sunroof delete and M-Sport a brilliant car.

135i is awesome when configured correctly. I see the 135i to 1M as I see the E46 ZHP to E46 M3. Not full blown M car but an amazing machine....and I still own and daily drive my ZHP.

The only issue I have with 135i v 1M is the disinformation put out there by a few 135i owners that minimize the differences between the two versions. Yes, you can make a 135i as fast with a tune and engine mods and brake mods and diff mods ,etc But as I said many here just say the 1M is a 135i with a tune and wholly discount very significant differences betwen the two.

The rack is different and faster, the suspension is all aluminum even the shocks and struts. The flywheel is lighter it has an extra radiator a full lock diff, wider body and track. Bigger brakes and wheels, yet weighs less than 135i with the bigger components.

As far as Randy Pobst hating it, yes he did and that is really a handful of guys that hated it vs the vast majority of people that loved it. Even Chris Harris bought one and paid "silly money" for one. Randy hated it as a track car. And it is not the best track car. What makes the 1M special is that it's naughty and a little scary around town and back roads. It makes the drives memorable. So judged as a pure track car, it is not the best in stock trim. My guess is that Randy wouldn't like the 135i in stock trim either as it is heavier and the brakes tended to have issues on the track.

So really the 135i is considered by many to be an amazing car and part of the last of BMWs small, powerful cars along with the 128i but I don't know of anyone that underestimates or underrates a 135i.
Pobst did drive the 135i and did a hot lap in it. IIRCC he states that he loved the turn in but hated the car's tendency to understeer
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      01-15-2019, 07:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I know what you mean but I don't think the 135i is really underrated. I and most people have a high opinion of the 135i. One advantage the 135i has over the 1M is that you got an N55 version with slightly less lag. I wanted a 135i when it came out and there is still a writeup I made on here back in 2008 or so where I was frothing at the mouth to drive one and trade in my E46 for it but BMW USA gooned it. They only offered vinyl and leather options in the USA which from a driving dynamics perspective are the same thing...slippery and hot. The rack was slow and didn't have as much feedback as the E46 I had at the time. Also at the time I drove it had the N54 motor which everyone had said no lag at all and BMW had said the 135i was going to be a club racer type. The combination of these expectations left me dissapointed when it did in fact have lag, the feedback was more muted than E46 and no cloth option...so much for club racer. And finally no LSD option. So at the time I left dissapointed with 135i based on expectations. However, I still think it is a great car and everyone I know does too. I think the 128i is underrated. Lighter, no lag, great sound and if ordered with manual seats, MT, sunroof delete and M-Sport a brilliant car.

135i is awesome when configured correctly. I see the 135i to 1M as I see the E46 ZHP to E46 M3. Not full blown M car but an amazing machine....and I still own and daily drive my ZHP.

The only issue I have with 135i v 1M is the disinformation put out there by a few 135i owners that minimize the differences between the two versions. Yes, you can make a 135i as fast with a tune and engine mods and brake mods and diff mods ,etc But as I said many here just say the 1M is a 135i with a tune and wholly discount very significant differences betwen the two.

The rack is different and faster, the suspension is all aluminum even the shocks and struts. The flywheel is lighter it has an extra radiator a full lock diff, wider body and track. Bigger brakes and wheels, yet weighs less than 135i with the bigger components.

As far as Randy Pobst hating it, yes he did and that is really a handful of guys that hated it vs the vast majority of people that loved it. Even Chris Harris bought one and paid "silly money" for one. Randy hated it as a track car. And it is not the best track car. What makes the 1M special is that it's naughty and a little scary around town and back roads. It makes the drives memorable. So judged as a pure track car, it is not the best in stock trim. My guess is that Randy wouldn't like the 135i in stock trim either as it is heavier and the brakes tended to have issues on the track.

So really the 135i is considered by many to be an amazing car and part of the last of BMWs small, powerful cars along with the 128i but I don't know of anyone that underestimates or underrates a 135i.
It's funny you mention the leather. Alcantra is one of the things I don't like about the 1M. I can't stand the feel of the stuff! I'm surprised that the 135i steering felt that slow to you. It's the same ratio as the regular E46 M3, and faster than the Porsches I've owned. Agreed about the feel, though, which is why M3 front arms are popular.

I agree about the ZHP comparison. It's also a bit like the 2002tii vs. 2002 Turbo. For me, like with Porsche, I actually prefer the looks of a narrow body, and I was going to mod the car, anyways, so the 135i made sense buying used, but I probably still would have purchased the 1M if buying new. I just don't think the used price justifies the 1M now days, unless one is a collector or interested in the limited aspect of it.
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      01-15-2019, 08:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Pobst did drive the 135i and did a hot lap in it. IIRCC he states that he loved the turn in but hated the car's tendency to understeer
Saw the video years ago when I was shopping the 135. I also remember him saying that the car had great mid band power and will be great on the street but ran out of steam up top. Which is true, especially for a guy who breaks records in some of the fastest track cars.
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      01-17-2019, 07:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
Pobst did drive the 135i and did a hot lap in it. IIRCC he states that he loved the turn in but hated the car's tendency to understeer
Saw the video years ago when I was shopping the 135. I also remember him saying that the car had great mid band power and will be great on the street but ran out of steam up top. Which is true, especially for a guy who breaks records in some of the fastest track cars.
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      01-17-2019, 07:47 PM   #22
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Luckily, the understeer is easily fixed.
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