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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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335i info from a seemingly reliable source..
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09-06-2005, 03:43 PM | #23 | |
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09-06-2005, 03:55 PM | #24 |
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Great info, thanks.
If it's true, I am having trouble figuring out why the E46 M3 could generate 333 hp from a normally aspirated engine, but BMW opted to use twin turbochargers to get 330 hp from the new engine. Perhaps the design of the new engine did not allow the greater displacement (was 3.2 liters in the E46 M3) that the M3 had. Seems a bit odd for BMW to be going back to turbo gasoline engines, but maybe it had to do with driveability and engine character. Then again, normally aspirated engines tend to be more "civilized" than turbocharged ones, but there are exceptions. I'm excited either way. More choices!! And who wouldn't want 75 more horsepower from the same basic E90 platform? I guess we will have to wait and see what the cost is. I also assume fuel economy will go way down too. |
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09-06-2005, 08:36 PM | #25 | |
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09-06-2005, 09:08 PM | #26 | |
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On the other hand, it is not extremely expensive to take the same mass-produced engine and tweak it with twin turbos. As any tuner will tell you, turbo-charging is one of the cheaper ways to get more power from a block! As a bonus, the 3.0l block is over-engineered so that it can easily withstand more power (since it needs to be more reliable, as BMW wants to keep warantee claims down), which means that not even many parts need to be changed on the engine. Therefore for the price of a 325/330 block + turbochargers, BMW can make a heck of a lot of profit by charging $10k more for the 335! That's pretty much the biggest reason as to why they would chose to turbo-charge the 3.0l block for a 335. It makes great sense from a commercial point of view. |
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09-06-2005, 11:09 PM | #27 |
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10k more for the 335i? That would have to include a very long list of M-sport extras and the 7-speed SMG or DSP. I was thinking more along the lines of 6k over the 330i. Do we have any good comparisons to make from the E60 in euro, e.g., 535turbo diesel vs. non turbo? Maybe this would make for a fun poll...
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09-06-2005, 11:58 PM | #28 |
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I HIGHLY doubt it will be a 10k price difference between the 330 and 335, and more than likely chances are, we will get this car - there's no way in 'hades' that BMW will let Volvo produce an inline six w/ a SINGLE turbo putting out 350 to top it...
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09-07-2005, 03:05 AM | #29 |
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Most (technologically advanced) car manufacturers are moving more towards forced induction. It allows for downsizing the displacement and thereby reducing fuel consumption on partial load. Gasoline is getting more and more expensive around the world and environmental preservation is important to many. So despite the growing hunger for more saftey, power and conevnience, the manufacturers are looking for ways to keep the power but bring down the consumption.
Valvetronic, direct injection, turbos, superchargers etc. All to get power from smaller displacement engines that use less fuel (unless of course you use all that power all the time (you can´t escape the laws of physics) The M3 NA 3.2 i-6 engine with 330hp is simply too frugal and to expensive for mass production. In that direction, there´s a very interesting new I-4 engine at Volkswagen It´s a 1.4 Liter direct injection gasoline engine with a supercharger AND a turbo that delivers 170 hp and lots of torque. It behaves like a 2.3 Liter NA engine while using almost 20% less fuel. It´s just going on sale in Germany in the Golf GT replacing a 2.0Liter Turbo Expect to see more complex gasoline engines with less displacement but more power in the future.
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09-07-2005, 03:29 AM | #30 |
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I just don't understand where the markets for these cars are. The 3 series is reaching into 5 series, Infiniti M, and Lexus GS territory with a $50K+ 335i. Is this really going to be a wise buying decision? Where is the value? How come Lexus gets away with the same or similar power at $10K less than BMW? That's a huge divide, probably more than I could tolerate. My 330i was already pushing the threshold of how much I think a car like it should cost.
*shrug* I guess time will tell. I'm just curious how many of you would put down $55K for a loaded 335i that will basically keep up with that IS350 in a straight line at nearly $15K less.
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E90 330i delivered 6/29/2005, ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/Step, Arctic/Gray/Walnut
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09-07-2005, 04:02 AM | #31 | |
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09-07-2005, 06:08 AM | #32 |
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The twin turboed 535d is approximately $7K more than the 530d, but that includes several thousands of options (automatic transmission, larger wheels and brakes, e. seats, etc)
I'd be surprised to see the 335i cost over $10K more. Especially since it's not a different engine like a 545 is compared to a 530. |
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09-07-2005, 10:50 AM | #34 | |
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09-07-2005, 11:01 AM | #35 | |
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09-07-2005, 11:28 AM | #37 | |
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RS4 is a V8 I think, and so has much more headroom for improvement than an I6. |
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09-07-2005, 12:24 PM | #38 | |
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09-07-2005, 02:40 PM | #39 |
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Pardon my excessive listing, but everytime I look at these strings on the 335i I find myself suppressing this primal urge to scream out "AAAHHH this car will be so great!" and feeling sheepish that doing so is an insult to those who have or are planning to get a 325 or 330, incredible cars in their own right. But dream we must! And hope that BMWNA gets it right in regard to the timing, and optioning, of this potentially fabulous car.
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09-07-2005, 06:07 PM | #40 | |
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09-07-2005, 06:19 PM | #41 |
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my nephew is a lexus tech and every time i sit in one i think to myself "this car and its manufacturers are simply trying to ape BMW"...
as far as the market for this model, don't kid yourself. BMW has one of the most loyal customer bases on the globe. the success of a somewhat niche model such as a 335 is in no way measured on how well it sells in north america. -e- Last edited by etherbored; 09-07-2005 at 06:20 PM.. Reason: typo'd |
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09-07-2005, 06:23 PM | #42 |
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I remember first hearing of sequential turbos in the 80's and one of the big problems was a nasty dip and then spike in power as the small turbo was dropping off and the big turbo was taking over. If they overlapped the turbos too much there were other problems, and if the smaller turbo was too big you still had lag off idle. One of the solutions I rememeber reading about was making the operating range of the motor very similar to a diesel, max revs very low so that they could manage boost better.
I'm curious if the advances in engine management have overcome the problems? I like high revving motors. I'll be sorely disappointed if this thing ends up with a 5500rpm redline. Extra power or not I'd probably take a higher revving lower power NA motor instead. But that's just me. |
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09-07-2005, 06:28 PM | #43 |
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Well, VW and Audi engines with turbos are quite good. I was really impressed with the new A3, and with the twin turbo S4 (B5). It has recently been (in the last 20 years or so) BMWs stance that normal aspiration was "better", but I guess they are changing their minds now.
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