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      07-31-2018, 12:45 PM   #1
The Wind Breezes
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DME tuning renaissance, why the hell do we still use JB4?

So I've noticed that a few people, who will remain nameless, insist on running a JB4 in conjunction with the refined remaps now available, or even as a standalone, but without any of the special-case uses listed below.

I have yet to hear a SINGLE good argument for why this is a good idea.

Reasons to use JB4 when you have access to all the maps necessary to recalibrate boost fuel ignition vanos CEL etc:

--To run a meth system or other auxiliary fueling
--To run a nitrous system
--To change your boost levels marginally more quickly than would be possible with a 3 minute reflash


Reasons not to use JB4 when you have a remappable ECU:

--Adds several additional points of failure between the various connections and the box itself.
--It's redundant, but not in a good way. You're duplicating functionality that can be better had with a good remap.
--It's like throwing $300, or whatever they cost nowadays in the garbage
--Using JB4 for boost control on a big turbo that doesn't work with the stock boost control tables just means your tuner is too lazy or stupid to properly calibrate the feedback control. Drivability suffers.
--For logging or codes. If you have your JB4 enabled it spams the hell out of the canbus and you can't use the OBD port, which is very silly. Flash solutions like MHD offer wireless logging and code clearing now, obviating the need for a JB4 even to do this.

Change my mind.
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      07-31-2018, 01:59 PM   #2
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Agreed. Why add 100 potential wiring failure points to your car. You are just asking for trouble. Would never install a JB4 in my car.
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      08-01-2018, 12:19 PM   #3
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Sold my JB4 a few weeks after buying it, MHD flash only. The Junk Box 4 doesn't even compare to a flash only tune.
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      08-01-2018, 02:09 PM   #4
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Ah... I remember the good old days...



-Sam
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      08-01-2018, 04:11 PM   #5
The Wind Breezes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
Junk Box 4

I love it, and will be stealing that from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamelCamel View Post
Ah... I remember the good old days...
The good old days...they were terrible! Full authority digital engine control is basically the best thing to happen to cars.
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      08-01-2018, 04:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
Junk Box 4

I love it, and will be stealing that from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamelCamel View Post
Ah... I remember the good old days...
The good old days...they were terrible! Full authority digital engine control is basically the best thing to happen to cars.
Junk Box 4, tweak Box 4, trash box 4, mcdonalds-burger tuning... I can go on and I swear to people to not waste their money with a piggyback tune like I did, it still dumbfounds me how people will still buy them. At least they sell fairly easy if you make a mistake of buying one lol
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      08-02-2018, 09:32 AM   #7
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I can't wait to go MHD 2+ followed by a custom tune from Twisted Tuning once I do inlets/outlets and PI
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      08-02-2018, 06:35 PM   #8
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Or some of us had late E-series DME's that were locked. And tunes weren't available until recently. The ideal reason to add JB4 (years) is because it's better than Cobb. MHD wasn't an option.
Clearly some of you think all BMW's have unlocked DME's. Not the case.

What would you do?

Obviously you'd buy the JB4 instead of waiting a year for the 'hopes' of a flash and unlocking the DME.

I kept the JB4, recently unlocked the DME, added the BEF. So I use both.

I noticed you didn't mention BEF or any of the above in your thread.

You make it sound like someone had a choice between JB4 or MHD. And went JB4. Don't be silly
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      08-02-2018, 06:53 PM   #9
The Wind Breezes
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Someone just doesn't get it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e View Post
Or some of us had late E-series DME's that were locked. And tunes weren't available until recently. Don't be silly
Yes, and that's EXACTLY THE POINT. All the DMEs for the 1series on this forum now have flash tunes available. With this in mind, why would someone run JB4 THESE DAYS?

Please, give us a reason. Your DME is now flashable so the fact that it wasn't at some point in the past is not a valid reason to still run a JB4. You may have read the OP, but you clearly do not understand it. For your own good, go back and study it before you post a reply.
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      08-02-2018, 07:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e View Post
Or some of us had late E-series DME's that were locked. And tunes weren't available until recently. The ideal reason to add JB4 (years) is because it's better than Cobb. MHD wasn't an option.
Clearly some of you think all BMW's have unlocked DME's. Not the case.

What would you do?

Obviously you'd buy the JB4 instead of waiting a year for the 'hopes' of a flash and unlocking the DME.

I kept the JB4, recently unlocked the DME, added the BEF. So I use both.

I noticed you didn't mention BEF or any of the above in your thread.

You make it sound like someone had a choice between JB4 or MHD. And went JB4. Don't be silly
Except Dinan had tunes available for even the locked DMEs for a long time. Well before MHD and other tuners that have recently unlocked the locked DMEs. And of course the PPK was always there for even locked DMEs.
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      08-02-2018, 07:54 PM   #11
The Wind Breezes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Except Dinan had tunes available for even the locked DMEs for a long time. Well before MHD and other tuners that have recently unlocked the locked DMEs. And of course the PPK was always there for even locked DMEs.
Dinan and PPK both suck cuz they're weak-ass and have no support for pulling a bin to edit yourself, so that's really quite irrelevant. This thread is about why people TODAY would use a Junk Box Fourth Edition, when we have full access to all the tables necessary to create a great flash tune.
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      08-02-2018, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Dinan and PPK both suck cuz they're weak-ass and have no support for pulling a bin to edit yourself, so that's really quite irrelevant. This thread is about why people TODAY would use a Junk Box Fourth Edition, when we have full access to all the tables necessary to create a great flash tune.
I'm responding to the guy that said he had no option but to use a JB4 back when no one other than BMW or Dinan had tunes.
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      08-02-2018, 10:43 PM   #13
The Wind Breezes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I'm responding to the guy that said he had no option but to use a JB4 back when no one other than BMW or Dinan had tunes.
I would agree with him, because those two tunes are crap and not worth considering. Also, his DME may have been bench flashable by some obscure and rather expensive tuners at the time (I remember figures of $1000 for a canned remap) but I don't have proof of that.
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      08-03-2018, 10:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
I would agree with him, because those two tunes are crap and not worth considering. Also, his DME may have been bench flashable by some obscure and rather expensive tuners at the time (I remember figures of $1000 for a canned remap) but I don't have proof of that.
Good, now you understand the dilemma. Choices were JB4/Dinan/Cobb (car came with PPK). I went the less expensive route for more power. Now I run the JB4 w/ a Backend Flash. And it's good.

The more and more you talk, the more and more you expose yourself as a fanboi
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      08-03-2018, 12:29 PM   #15
The Wind Breezes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e View Post
Good, now you understand the dilemma. Choices were JB4/Dinan/Cobb (car came with PPK). I went the less expensive route for more power. Now I run the JB4 w/ a Backend Flash. And it's good.

The more and more you talk, the more and more you expose yourself as a fanboi
You're avoiding the question. Why use a JB4 NOW (why are you continuing to use it) when your DME is fully tunable? ANSWER THE QUESTION.
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      08-03-2018, 01:46 PM   #16
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      08-03-2018, 01:58 PM   #17
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Completely happy with my Dinan tune. Just wanted a small tune that I wouldn't have to ever to bother with once it was flashed. 355 hp and 401 lb-ft is plenty for my needs.

Also have PPK and love the sound. And yes, you can stack Dinan on PPK and still get all the wonderful PPK sounds. Proof is here.

I know you can get burbles with MHD, but again, you have to fiddle with the settings to get just you want. With my tunes, absolutely no fiddling. Completely flash and forget. Just want I wanted.

OP, I know you like to argue and will probably tell me I paid too much and I can get better for less, but as I said, I'm completely happy. You love to tell people they're wrong and your choices are the only right ones, so please, go right ahead if you want to. I stated my case and have nothing left to contribute to this thread.
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      08-03-2018, 02:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
You're avoiding the question. Why use a JB4 NOW (why are you continuing to use it) when your DME is fully tunable? ANSWER THE QUESTION.
I tried flash only recently. Asked for a refund. I liked it. I like having the convenience of a BEF w/ the JB4. More power. Smooth. I could go back and possibly will. I could have a BEF custom tuned if I want.

Why are you so dead on JB4 at all costs? Fanboi?

Some of the quickest cars out there use the BEF combo. No issues.
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      08-03-2018, 02:31 PM   #19
The Wind Breezes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e View Post
I tried flash only recently. Asked for a refund. I liked it. I like having the convenience of a BEF w/ the JB4. More power. Smooth.
What is convenient about it? More power is simply not true, a flash tune can make as much power as your hardware supports AND more smoothly with good calibration.

A fanboi is someone who supports a particular product or brand. I say, use whatever is best...and in your situation that is definitely NOT a JB4 for reasons explained in the OP. I have no issues with people choosing the flash tune of their choice. I do have an issue with a deceptively marketed product which has no place in the current N54 / N55 tuning scene except for the special cases noted above.

As for the fast cars, many of those cars are running special-case things like auxiliary fueling or water/meth, which are situations where a JB4 makes sense, since the stock ECU is not setup to run that stuff. You're not running auxiliary fueling, meth, nitrous or anything like that, so why you would spend more money to make your car less reliable is still beyond me.
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      08-03-2018, 02:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
You're avoiding the question. Why use a JB4 NOW (why are you continuing to use it) when your DME is fully tunable? ANSWER THE QUESTION.
For some people, it's been purchased, it's given a benefit, not caused any harm, and there's no need to pour additional time and money into something they are currently happy with. It's really not that complicated.

Your argument is with people who claim it's better than a tune, and would buy it today and argue it as such. I'm not sure there are any of those people.
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      08-03-2018, 03:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
For some people, it's been purchased, it's given a benefit, not caused any harm, and there's no need to pour additional time and money into something they are currently happy with. It's really not that complicated.

Your argument is with people who claim it's better than a tune, and would buy it today and argue it as such. I'm not sure there are any of those people.
Thank you for a reasoned response on the matter. I accept the logic behind what you have said and would like to see more comments like this.

I would add, however, that it probably makes more sense to take the thing out for reliability purposes alone if nothing else. No point in having additional points of failure in the form of unnecessary connections, and another computer, any of which will cause problems if they fail.
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      08-03-2018, 03:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
I would add, however, that it probably makes more sense to take the thing out for reliability purposes alone if nothing else. No point in having additional points of failure in the form of unnecessary connections, and another computer, any of which will cause problems if they fail.
I would tend to agree with this, but I am, like you it seems, a DIY'er and a nitpicker. Some people don't know much, don't care much, and subscribe to "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I can't fault them for it.

I have the Cobb. I liked it over the JB4 for a variety of reasons. There's better out now, but not back then. It works well enough and is good enough I have just been keeping it. I'm interested in something else but have other hobbies to tend to and my car budget is exhausted for a while (no pun intended) after swapping every fluid and filter throughout, as well as tires.
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