1 Series M or 11 Mustang GT??

[BBK]

As much as you say the Mustang is as good as an M3, it isn't. People who buy M3's don't just buy it for the performance, straight line or track. People also buy them because it is prestigious, it is refined, it is great to look at and it will most likely last longer.

Anyone can make a cheap car go fast... but it's hard to make a cheap car do EVERYTHING (including being refined). This is why the comparison with the Munstang is really useless. Unless you want the performance of the two cars and nothing else matters. But if you want that kind of performance on a budget, why not just buy a cheaper car again and modify it?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by BBK

As much as you say the Mustang is as good as an M3, it isn't. People who buy M3's don't just buy it for the performance, straight line or track. People also buy them because it is prestigious, it is refined, it is great to look at and it will most likely last longer.

Anyone can make a cheap car go fast... but it's hard to make a cheap car do EVERYTHING (including being refined). This is why the comparison with the Munstang is really useless. Unless you want the performance of the two cars and nothing else matters. But if you want that kind of performance on a budget, why not just buy a cheaper car again and modify it?

Difference is most tuner don't mod with longevity in mind and when they do they don't have the resources to do extensive testing as manufacturer can. And if they do have the resource to they typically don't offer warranties. I don't think BMS or Vishnu is going to pay for turbo or engine replacement if either one fails. The question is whether the extra money is worth the extras BMW brings. Personally I look for performance and reliability, interior doesn't matter as much. That said I really don't think BMWs interior is anything to write home about. Its philosophy has always been simplicity.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by BMWDAD

Motor Trend Gt vs M3 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

I guess the boss 302 would win

It would only be fair...they did test the stang against a competition package M3...

[bimmerboy]

LMAO in that MT video the mustang is braking just to tie ! check the taillights at 2:22

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

It would only be fair...they did test the stang against a competition package M3...

The comp package adds no power. It's just different wheels, 10mm lower, and different EDC settings. Hardly comparable to the boss.

[MrRoboto]

Damn the shelby GT500 starts at just under 60k in Canada.

[BForbes]

Wow. What a great article. I recall so many people questioning others even comparing the Mustang GT vs M3's performance specs. The proof is in the pudding.

The 2011 GT has drawn blood. Bimmer Blood. Much respect to a car I could get for close to 30k. I wish the CTS-V, RS5, etc was there to get there lunch eaten. Oh well. Of course most of us will drool over the M more. The article has hit those untouchable virtues on the head. Funny thing that this is against a ZCP M3.

[TunedM2C]

Buy one 5.0 GT and add another $7,500 from the Ford parts counter and you're at 624 hp.

By now, every pony-car fan knows that the Ford Mustang GT’s new-for-2011 5.0-liter V-8 engine cranks out 412 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque. Although that’s nothing to be ashamed of, tuners always want more go. So Ford Racing has unveiled a new supercharger kit for the 5.0, good for up to 624 ponies.

The kit includes a 2.3-liter, twin-screw supercharger co-developed with Roush and Whipple. It comes with a new intake manifold, air-to-liquid intercooler, higher-flow fuel injectors, and a tool to reprogram the engine-management computer. And yes, the blower is emissions-legal in all 50 states.

The base kit produces 525 hp and 470 lb-ft of torque; the supercharger is configured for seven psi of boost and needs 93-octane fuel. It costs $7199 if painted black or $7799 in polished chrome, and includes a 12-month/12,000-mile warranty if installed at a Ford dealership.


The step-up version pushes nine psi of boost through the 5.0, to create 624 hp and 536 lb-ft of torque, also on 93-octane gas. It costs $7499 in black or $8099 in chrome. There’s also a version of the kit aimed at hardcore tuners that includes all the hardware without any reprogramming tools, for $6499 in black or $7099 in chrome.

There is one awkward wrinkle in Ford’s pricing scheme. Buy a base Mustang GT and the big-boost supercharger kit, and you’ll have a 624-hp Mustang for $37,994. The Shelby GT500, on the other hand, provides “just” 550 supercharged ponies at a base price of $49,495. Of course, the Shelby also includes chassis upgrades over the regular Mustang GT and a full factory warranty, but if your goal is purely big horsepower, the Ford Racing supercharger is the most cost-effective way to go


http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-ra...24-horsepower/

[oztiks]

You can buy a 5.0 rather than an M3 and have all kinds of money left over is what they all say....right!. First off, no one in their right mind would buy a 5.0 over an m3 if they had the money to do so, and it is impossible to look intelligent in a 5.0 if you are over 30 years old. All that aside the 5.0 is a great deal for what it is. At the same time, BMW has to start giving more for what they charge.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by oztiks

You can buy a 5.0 rather than an M3 and have all kinds of money left over is what they all say....right!. First off, no one in their right mind would buy a 5.0 over an m3 if they had the money to do so, and it is impossible to look intelligent in a 5.0 if you are over 30 years old. All that aside the 5.0 is a great deal for what it is. At the same time, BMW has to start giving more for what they charge.

Its a good point. As a weekend fun car sure, but day to day I would never drive clients around in the mustang.

I still cant understand why american car manufactures cant make a decent dash. The mustangs is ridiculous. Looks like a 1960s jukebox. Stop all the 'heritage' crap.

[mixxer]

Its not an awkward wrinkle at all because you can add a twin screw package to to the gt500 and make between 700-900 to the wheels without touching the motor.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by michifan

I don't think anyone would argue that the Mustang GT is a great value. If someone is strictly looking for acceleration and speed, it's a great car.

But BMWs are not really about just acceleration and speed. It's about balance. It takes a lot of costly engineering and parts to get great balance. Smooth driving and the ability to handle what you throw at it, when you throw at it. I don't think a lot of people think 'value' when they buy a BMW.

I give credit to Ford for finally making a Mustang that gets attention from American and European sports car fans. One thing for sure about the M3 - it is at the end of its model run, and when the new version comes out - it will need to be better in every way to maintain it's status.

As per the article the Mustang felt better balanced and understeered less.

Can you imagine the BOSS 302 we kept going back and forth about? Does this mean a GT would eek out a non ZCP M3? You are definitely right in terms of the BMW not being about tangible value. I'm not so worried about the M3 as much as I am about the 1M. I hope they understand that it needs to outperform. A Bimmer will always be a BMW and that counts for a lot but numbers are hard to ignore sometimes.

[Simsims]

No offense to anyone above.

Performance figures are performance figures. If that's all you live by, that's ok.

But for some reason I keep getting the image of:

Mustang drivers = rednecks.

I'd rent one, drive the shit out of it for fun, over a weekend. That's about it...

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Simsims

But for some reason I keep getting the image of:
Mustang drivers = rednecks.

that's mulleted camaro drivers that you're thinking of...mustang drivers are midlife crisisers who couldn't afford a corvette

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Simsims

No offense to anyone above.

Performance figures are performance figures. If that's all you live by, that's ok.

But for some reason I keep getting the image of:

Mustang drivers = rednecks.

I'd rent one, drive the shit out of it for fun, over a weekend. That's about it...

I dont think thats fair at all to label all Mustang drivers as rednecks. Thats like saying all BMW drivers are snobs, which they're not. I find it funny how people all of a sudden gets dismissive of performance figures when its convenient. We're not talking about a 328i here. This is BMW's Motorsport 3. Its arguably the heart and soul of the BMW franchise. I dont think anybody is saying that is all they live by. First and foremost these are modes of transportation. What we are discussing is how close this performs subjectively and objectively while costing less and having obvious disadvantages.That's all. The M3 always performed. Look at the acceleration and HP jumps from the last several generations. They were HUGE. Has anybody said "Oh yea, everyone should just go out and buy an Mustang over an M3?" No. The comparo just shows how much respect the car deserves for just being a Mustang GT. One car starts at 29k and the other 58k. If this is hard to comprehend, then I dont know what else to say.

[roundel]

Okay so I finally decided to take out the 135 today. Man talk about a different car from the 5.0. The one thing you really notice about the N54 is how incredibly smooth that motor is and the power delivery. I didn't notice ANY turbo lag either. Quite possibly the best motor ever made. Wow. You can see where BMW put their energies. Oh yeah, that was the reason I bought the car in the first place. Duh.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by BForbes

I dont think thats fair at all to label all Mustang drivers as rednecks. Thats like saying all BMW drivers are snobs, which they're not. I find it funny how people all of a sudden gets dismissive of performance figures when its convenient. We're not talking about a 328i here. This is BMW's Motorsport 3. Its arguably the heart and soul of the BMW franchise. I dont think anybody is saying that is all they live by. First and foremost these are modes of transportation. What we are discussing is how close this performs subjectively and objectively while costing less and having obvious disadvantages.That's all. The M3 always performed. Look at the acceleration and HP jumps from the last several generations. They were HUGE. Has anybody said "Oh yea, everyone should just go out and buy an Mustang over an M3?" No. The comparo just shows how much respect the car deserves for just being a Mustang GT. One car starts at 29k and the other 58k. If this is hard to comprehend, then I dont know what else to say.

I think the problem is that a lot of people can't handle the cognitive dissonance associated with appreciating something they wouldn't own. They obsess over making the "best" decision, but they define "best" as the best option regardless of compromise. That paints a black & white picture of the decision making process, which is just unrealistic.

The reality is that we choose our cars much like we choose music, art, and food. We don't measure the quality of music solely based on volume. We don't measure the quality of a steak based solely on how many ounces it weighs. We don't measure our desire for a car based solely on its performance statistics. And that's all good

(I'm agreeing with you, in case that wasn't clear )

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by roundel

Okay so I finally decided to take out the 135 today. Man talk about a different car from the 5.0. The one thing you really notice about the N54 is how incredibly smooth that motor is and the power delivery. I didn't notice ANY turbo lag either. Quite possibly the best motor ever made. Wow. You can see where BMW put their energies. Oh yeah, that was the reason I bought the car in the first place. Duh.

Who are you and what have you done with roundel?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I think the problem is that a lot of people can't handle the cognitive dissonance associated with appreciating something they wouldn't own. They obsess over making the "best" decision, but they define "best" as the best option regardless of compromise. That paints a black & white picture of the decision making process, which is just unrealistic.

The reality is that we choose our cars much like we choose music, art, and food. We don't measure the quality of music solely based on volume. We don't measure the quality of a steak based solely on how many ounces it weighs. We don't measure our desire for a car based solely on its performance statistics. And that's all good

(I'm agreeing with you, in case that wasn't clear )

I'll be honest. I did have to read it twice...lol Cognitive Dissonance had me reaching for my old Psych/Human Behavior books.

Roundel's got it right. Too bad I can't afford to have these two drastically different flavors of ice cream at the same time. I was in a 335i 6MT with 3 other people a few weeks ago. One of the girls screamed at a WOT 20-80mph pull. The driver can't over how smooth and drama free it was.

[Hoad]

To the OP: If you are stationed overseas contact the U.S. Military Sales office at usmilitarysales@bmwna.com or (800) 932-0821 if you decide on the BMW. You'll save thousands doing the stateside delivery program.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Hoad

To the OP: If you are stationed overseas contact the U.S. Military Sales office at usmilitarysales@bmwna.com or (800) 932-0821 if you decide on the BMW. You'll save thousands doing the stateside delivery program.

I'm pretty sure that's was the OP's original intent lol

Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77

The whole problem is that I won't get a chance to test drive either before i have to make a decision, since I can only take advantage of military sales while i am still overseas.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Look, I'm not saying everyone should rush out and sell their BMW so they can buy a Mustang, but you have to give credit where credit is due. I could have bought a Mustang GT, and I even looked at them, but it's not what I wanted from a "total package" perspective. That doesn't change the fact that it is simply the best performance value on the market right now.

Well said, thank you. This is how the discussion started out, with people giving props to the performance and value that the 5.0 offers. Like you said, it doesn't mean people need to start ditching their BMWs, but for some reason many of us don't understand, people were bashing this car just because it's a Ford. Hell, even the M3 guys are giving the Mustang kudos.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422981