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      11-04-2020, 11:01 PM   #1
JayR_e92
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E36 M3 advice?

Hey Guys!

Looking for advice or any suggestions/pointers regarding E36 M3's. I figured I would post this here and see if anyone in E9X or E46 world had some experience with E36's as well.

I have my eyes set on one listed for sale in PA. If anyone with a wealth of knowledge could shed some light on this example it would be greatly appreciated!

I realize this question might seem a little odd but I've never personally owned an E36 so I'm not 100% what to look for as far as quirks, common issues or [IMG][/IMG]parts that commonly fail.

In other words, what do you think of this example?

https://clients.automanager.com/91e0...e171f37aeedf5b

Thank you!!
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      11-05-2020, 12:14 AM   #2
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I own a 99 M3 with ~78k miles. I purchased mine back in April. That one in particular looks really clean, especially the interior. Those pictures aren't telling the whole story though- any car of that age and miles will have defects. I'd wants close ups of the exterior trim and make sure all VIN tags are present. I would definitely want to see the undercarriage to check for any rust. I spy some rusty bolt heads in the engine bay which may or may not indicate more.

The S52 is a great motor and pretty low maintenance as far as BMWs go. The problem here is age. If you want it to drive and look like new you're going to spend a lot of money restoring it. At 82k miles a lot of big maintenance is due so any records here would help or be prepared to put a lot of money into it if you care how it drives at all. Bushings, power steering lines, cooling system, brakes etc. Looks like those are old Michelin Pilot sports so I would check the date codes on those tires. I'm probably at around $12k in parts alone on mine and it was a clean 1 owner example. The cars are easy to DIY if you're so inclined.

'96 is a pretty desirable year since it's pre-facelift nose with no side airbags but has the superior S52. All said I love the car- once you get caught up on maintenance they are reliable and make a great daily driver. The S52 has good torque and is super smooth. I installed a ZHP steering rack in mine and it really transformed the car along with replacing all the shifter components.

Last edited by sirhodjibob; 11-05-2020 at 12:21 AM..
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      11-05-2020, 12:59 AM   #3
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Don't bother with US spec M3s. Get a real M3 with euro engines (286ps~321ps). 25 year old exemption should serve you well.
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      11-05-2020, 01:41 AM   #4
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Sirhodjibob very good info. Thank you for pointing these things out. I will definitely be asking the seller for some video clips of the car, specially the undercarriage as well.

I'm leaning more toward the E36 but I am very much so open to an E46. Seems like you can get a lower mileage and less abused e36 for less money overall than say a low mileage unmolested and manual e46.

I appreciate your input on what to look for and what to ask for! Thank you
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      11-05-2020, 01:43 AM   #5
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Kyrix1st , there are 2 euro spec E36 here locally for sale in the PNW by the same seller but that are both the 1994 with the 3.0L I believe. I don't know much about the differences but would you recommend a euro spec 3.0 over a US spec 3.2?
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      11-05-2020, 01:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Don't bother with US spec M3s. Get a real M3 with euro engines (286ps~321ps). 25 year old exemption should serve you well.
"don't bother" lol that engine is like $12k+ and can't find ANY parts in the states. Costs more than the s65.
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      11-05-2020, 07:41 AM   #7
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Check for rust. They rust around the rear fenders. Make sure RTABs have been done. I would recommend finding a full aluminum radiator and doing a full cooling system refresh as soon as you get it. They are basically 328is so there is nothing too crazy.
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      11-05-2020, 10:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayR_e92 View Post
Kyrix1st , there are 2 euro spec E36 here locally for sale in the PNW by the same seller but that are both the 1994 with the 3.0L I believe. I don't know much about the differences but would you recommend a euro spec 3.0 over a US spec 3.2?
Euro spec is the real E36 M3. I drove US spec M3s in mountain roads and the power delivery is very underwhelming vs. Euro specs with high compression engines. Mind you the euro 3.0L WAS the base engine for DTM series back in the 90s. Individual throttle body is something you cannot retrofit into US M3s without a standalone DME and $$$.

I originally had Euro 3.2L and now have Euro 3.0L and I like them both for different reasons. 3.0L is more revvy whereas 3.2L is massive power (actually faster than E46 because power ratings are similar but E36 weighs about 150kg less)
Euro 3.2 (S50B32) is the direct base engine for S54B32 so bulk of components are shared with E46.
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      11-05-2020, 10:09 AM   #9
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Beyond regular maint. items the E36 has a reputation for rear sub frame issues.

If memory serves you can set your watch by water pump failures (about 72,000 miles).

I had a Daytona Violet '95 for several years from '96 to 2003 or so, it was a great car.
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      11-05-2020, 12:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPOWER5266 View Post
Check for rust. They rust around the rear fenders. Make sure RTABs have been done. I would recommend finding a full aluminum radiator and doing a full cooling system refresh as soon as you get it. They are basically 328is so there is nothing too crazy.

Thank you! Wasn't sure what you meant by RTAB but I took a look and see that its the rear trailing arm bushings. I will def check to see if these have been done, if not, they don't look to be too expensive but its worth asking for RTAB job quote here locally at my shop.

cooling system for sure as well, this one always seems to be brought up!

thank you
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      11-05-2020, 12:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Euro spec is the real E36 M3. I drove US spec M3s in mountain roads and the power delivery is very underwhelming vs. Euro specs with high compression engines. Mind you the euro 3.0L WAS the base engine for DTM series back in the 90s. Individual throttle body is something you cannot retrofit into US M3s without a standalone DME and $$$.

I originally had Euro 3.2L and now have Euro 3.0L and I like them both for different reasons. 3.0L is more revvy whereas 3.2L is massive power (actually faster than E46 because power ratings are similar but E36 weighs about 150kg less)
Euro 3.2 (S50B32) is the direct base engine for S54B32 so bulk of components are shared with E46.
Very good to know.
Another member above mentioned not being able to find parts readily available in the US, and they are expensive to fix for this reason. Is this entirely true? Or should it not be much of a difference if I were to get a euro spec and it needed maintenance/parts in the future?

thank you
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      11-05-2020, 12:54 PM   #12
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E92 and E36 M3 owner here, so figured I'd chime in.
The 2 cars compliment well, and I don't agree that the US spec ones are not worth looking at. I also have a Z4M Roadster so I kind of have an idea what I'm missing out on in the Euro motor.

Since it's an old chassis, there are guys with so much knowledge on this, and there are plenty of DIY's as well. The advantage of it being a US motor is that for an M car, the maintenance is far easier/cheaper than say an E46 and E9x M3.

As other people mentioned, this car is well over 20 years, so it'll need things if it's original: Cooling system, bushings, hoses, bushings in the trans that causes the 5th gear lean, plastic parts ect ect...

My car was purchased at 112k miles, and now has 142k. Engine doesn't burn a drop of oil and repairs have been very reasonable. But just understand that it's an old car. so it'll need things.

On this specific car, it's got a really nice interior with desirable manual seats. Low mileage, but also high price, so I'd expect this thing to be pretty close to mint. I'd insist on looking under the car. Black/Black is prob not the most desirable color combo considering how many wild paint choices were available, but ones this clean prob don't come up all that often for what it's worth.

Feel free to ask any questions. For me, I never grew up wanting an E36 (E30 and E46 were more my cup of tea), but this car, even with US spec engine has so much charm.

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      11-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #13
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Just like any car that is almost 30 years old. It will need some maintenance. RTAB, FLCA and differential bushings, metal impeller water pump upgrade, Z3 radiator upgrade (or aluminum) are a must. I personally would avoid luxury package ones and go with a sport package one with Vader seats. If you can get an euro one...GO FOR IT. It will pay for itself in the long run. My 97 was a lot of fun to drive. It is one of those cars that I wish I still had.
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      11-05-2020, 01:52 PM   #14
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Don't discount the e36 328i sport. I don't think there's any performance difference between Euro & US spec & is petty much just as quick as the US spec 3 litre m3.

I owned a silver 1996 328is coupe for over eleven years & 75,000 miles. Other than routine consumables the only things that broke were the water pump & radiator, best Bmw I've owned
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      11-05-2020, 02:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayR_e92 View Post
Very good to know.
Another member above mentioned not being able to find parts readily available in the US, and they are expensive to fix for this reason. Is this entirely true? Or should it not be much of a difference if I were to get a euro spec and it needed maintenance/parts in the future?

thank you
I disagree. 3.0L euro motor has single VANOS, with proper care and correct use of engine oil(10w60, uses similar internals as S54B32 other than VANOS) the motor will not need any more maintenance than US spec M3. I had no problem maintaining using ECS or Schmiedmann with my Euro M3s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chappers 71 View Post
Don't discount the e36 328i sport. I don't think there's any performance difference between Euro & US spec & is petty much just as quick as the 3 litre m3.

I owned a silver 1996 328is coupe for over eleven years & 75,000 miles. Other than routine consumables the only things that broke were the water pump & radiator, best Bmw I've owned


Give or take 1 sec from driver difference, the performance difference is clear.
US spec M3's acceleration is underwhelming after 60mph.

1. US spec M3 0-160kph (0-100mph) 15-16 sec


2. E36 M3 3.2L euro (321ps) (0-100mph) 13.09 sec


3. E36 M3 3.0L euro (286ps) (0-100mph) 12.2 sec
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      11-05-2020, 02:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
E92 and E36 M3 owner here, so figured I'd chime in.
The 2 cars compliment well, and I don't agree that the US spec ones are not worth looking at. I also have a Z4M Roadster so I kind of have an idea what I'm missing out on in the Euro motor.
I agree they are good cars by themselves..but it's not an M3. More like 330is.
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      11-05-2020, 06:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I disagree. 3.0L euro motor has single VANOS, with proper care and correct use of engine oil(10w60, uses similar internals as S54B32 other than VANOS) the motor will not need any more maintenance than US spec M3. I had no problem maintaining using ECS or Schmiedmann with my Euro M3s.





Give or take 1 sec from driver difference, the performance difference is clear.
US spec M3's acceleration is underwhelming after 60mph.

1. US spec M3 0-160kph (0-100mph) 15-16 sec


2. E36 M3 3.2L euro (321ps) (0-100mph) 13.09 sec


3. E36 M3 3.0L euro (286ps) (0-100mph) 12.2 sec
Thank you! This comparison is very helpful as well as the info provided regarding parts for the Euro spec models. I appreciate it
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      11-05-2020, 07:06 PM   #18
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SHEESH - That's a dream line up you have there sir!

Thank you for your input as well. I am definitely going to be asking for good clear photos of the undercarriage and all VIN's.

Also for what it is worth I will add - I am looking forward to having an ongoing project like that as well. Finding something that is really clean, everything works, and over time I update and refresh OEM parts to new. It will mainly be a weekend car for the lady and I to just enjoy cruising in, but can also be daily driven if I choose to and could even see a track day or two through the year. Essentially a mostly stock car with a few small upgrades that make it fully capable of being driven a little harder once in a while.

The E36 is for for sure at the top of my list, but the the E46 M3 is right up there as well. Its just a matter of finding the best/cleanest manual M3 of the two that I can find within my budget.
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      11-06-2020, 11:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayR_e92 View Post
SHEESH - That's a dream line up you have there sir!

Thank you for your input as well. I am definitely going to be asking for good clear photos of the undercarriage and all VIN's.

Also for what it is worth I will add - I am looking forward to having an ongoing project like that as well. Finding something that is really clean, everything works, and over time I update and refresh OEM parts to new. It will mainly be a weekend car for the lady and I to just enjoy cruising in, but can also be daily driven if I choose to and could even see a track day or two through the year. Essentially a mostly stock car with a few small upgrades that make it fully capable of being driven a little harder once in a while.

The E36 is for for sure at the top of my list, but the the E46 M3 is right up there as well. Its just a matter of finding the best/cleanest manual M3 of the two that I can find within my budget.
As I mentioned, the E46 M3 is a completely different monster, in terms of speed and also maintenance/repairs. $20k+ for an E36 M3 IMO is very much top of the market, while that will very much not be the case for the E46 M3.
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      11-15-2020, 10:22 AM   #20
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I own a 98 E36 M3 and this is my second. The first being a 95 model.
I went through a lot of maintenance because I didn’t have any history on the car. I can tell you the car is easy to work on.

The Beauty about this car (S52) is the low end torque. I added 24lbs Bosch fuel injectors, a Shark tune, a Porsche MAF and an S/M50 intake bringing the power up a bit. In addition to the power, the car handles superb especially if you add some nice suspension like Konis and H&R. Dinan used to make a great suspension that was tailored exclusively for this car and it was beautiful.

Unlike the 95 M3, 96 and onward have a subframe reinforcements. When I disassembled the rear subframe and removed the differential, I noticed that BMW welded subframe reinforcements; hence, the chassis will handle a stiffer suspension. I went ahead and upgraded all of the rear bushings.

I changed my clutch by myself and it was my first time. I can say this that some of the upper torx bolts (mounted on top of the transmission) were a pain and have different sizes. So a person must be careful, but I got it done. While you have the transmission out, do some service on it like the input and output shaft seals, rear main seal and new fluid. Also, replace the shift link and bushings.

I read that people have upgraded the steering rack to that of E46 ZHP purple tag. Some people claim that it helped and made the car feel less lazy while turning. Whether that’s true or not who knows.

The entire cooling system was replaced: hoses, belts, pulleys, thermostat, water pump, and radiator. Do not take shortcuts on some of these items and do replace them because any of these could fail and you might be stuck with a disaster.

Like I mentioned, I replaced a lot of parts. Some didn’t need to be replaced but I went ahead and changed them.

My next goal is to remove the seats and redye them and repair some areas.

Let me know if you have any question.
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      11-15-2020, 01:28 PM   #21
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Thank you positiveions ! Tons of great information.

I have narrowed my search down to 3 different E36's and one of which is an auction that will be ending soon. So by the end of this coming week should know for certain which one will be bought. Can't wait.

I will definitely be performing all of the maintenance you suggest and refreshing tons of parts with new oem parts.

I appreciate the info!!
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      11-15-2020, 01:48 PM   #22
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I might have missed, what are they asking ? Didn't see on page.

Here's a really clean one on BAT. Nice undercarriage for these cars. Seats crazy clean. I suspect this will push $20K by tomorrow. (maybe not ? )

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-bmw-m3-186/

want a really fun car low mileage...not sure how this doesn't hit $15K+

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2012-bmw-135-6/
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