Like modding cars and preserving warranty? Audi is not the car for you

[///M1]

This is the latest chapter in the "Manufacturer vs Tuner" wars. Audi of America has laid down the hammer hard, and already there are several instances where warranty has been denied by AofA on modded (TD1) cars (mostly B8 S4s).

And the whole statement from aftermarket tuners that 'our tune is undetectable' is being seriously tested. Hoping BMW doesn't go this route:

[Powerbeast]

Damn!

[Drillslinger]

Well, it makes a messed up kind of sense. If Audi can't get around the Magnuson-Moss Act then just put it in writing that modding voids the warranty. I'm not a lawyer so don't know if this would hold up to a legal challenge but by doing this Audi can say that the owner "voluntarily" forfeited warranty coverage

[HACKULO]

Originally Posted by Powerbeast

Damn!

damn? no more jb4??? lol

[Pete_vB]

Frankly, I can't blame them. There is no doubt that raising the redline/ re-calibrating the car for more power will often result in reduced reliability. If they maintain warranty coverage then effectively customers without tunes are paying extra money to support customers with tunes. Seems unfair, and hence I'm not a big fan of all this "flash back to stock for the dealer" mentality.

On the other hand, I don't like the idea of manufactures taking tunes as a blank check to void the warranty, which is sometimes how manufactures take it. Something like Dinan's approach seems a sensible middle ground, if that could be made universal.

[wkndwrrr]

I get where they're coming from, but a short shifter voiding warranty?!
I guess its kind of a mute point since Audi's phasing out manuals anyways.
But that really sucks, I've come close to adding an Audi to my garage a few times over the years.
When you're adding massive amounts of power to your vehicle, I get why they'd void your warranty, but upgrading components like clutch, air intake, intercooler, exhaust? Really?

[woosh]

Well this was innevitable.

As the saying goes, you gotta pay to play. Don't mod your car if you can't afford any of the repair bills yourself. Simple.

[1'M Blue]

Its a suspected move.. manufactures dont want any form of tuning unless its something that gives them interest and profit (ie factory backed performance mod's ) .

[Aetey]

Well modding isn't the only way to throw your Audi warranty through the window, track use is another. This is true even for the R8 and their RS branded models. Which is hilarious since catalogs for these models convey the message that the car was designed to be tracked (loads of photos of red/white curbs, start-stop lines, car standing in the pitlane, you get the picture.) But this seems to be a make-specific policy since the guys over at my Porsche stealership confirmed that Porsches can be driven on closed tracks (well otherwise all those GTx models wouldn't make much sense anyhow.)

Not sure how this is handled by BMW M. Anyone knows?

(Disclaimer -- this is Europe; maybe things are different in the US.)

[m3dragon]

Remember there is a precedent for this already. (Law suite already setting the tone) They can say putting a sticker on you car but by law it is on the burden of the manufacture to prove the change damaged the car. This is US only.

Caveat to this is as follow.

1. Dealers are not like the old days when they knew your name and if you changed anything they were like WOW.

2. Dealers want your $$ and nothing else (for the most part)

3. You might have the law on your side BUT how much time and energy will it take for you to prove your rights?

Last note. It really comes down to the dealer to say if the modification caused a the issue or not. If the dealer sees a CIA and says it is not hurting anything which caused a void in warranty. Then that is a good dealer as they know for the most part a CIA will not damage the car. (event the sticker could damage the car though =P ) Sad part is that dealer makes up 1% of them out there (wild guess - maybe 5%)

[firechicken99]

wow!

[Dan Parker]

Audi tried to pull some stupid shenanigans on me 8 years ago. The mass airflow sensor was broken (with no visible issues) and they tried to say my CAI was to blame. I fought them and they finally replaced it under warranty. 6 weeks later I got a letter from Audi saying I had a recall on my mass airflow sensor. Needless to say, the service manager didn't want to talk to me when I saw him the next time. Service departments are always looking to make $$$ and will bend you over at any possible chance. They have deep pockets and gamble on the consumer being able to lawyer up against them. That being said I can understand if a tune prematurely damages an engine but they try to take the issue too far. This is one of those cases IMO.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Something like Dinan's approach seems a sensible middle ground, if that could be made universal.

I kind of understand what you're getting at, but that would mean we would be paying double for a non-Dinan tune. The Dinan warranty is not a BMW warranty and that's why Dinan is so expensive.

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by Dan Parker

Audi tried to pull some stupid shenanigans on me 8 years ago. The mass airflow sensor was broken (with no visible issues) and they tried to say my CAI was to blame. I fought them and they finally replaced it under warranty. 6 weeks later I got a letter from Audi saying I had a recall on my mass airflow sensor. Needless to say, the service manager didn't want to talk to me when I saw him the next time. Service departments are always looking to make $$$ and will bend you over at any possible chance. They have deep pockets and gamble on the consumer being able to lawyer up against them. That being said I can understand if a tune prematurely damages an engine but they try to take the issue too far. This is one of those cases IMO.

Did you perhaps have a B5 S4?

IMHO Audi and VAG in general have been fairly aggressive about denying claims when they suspect modification.

Seems fair to me, if you modify you should expect to pay for repairs and consider yourself lucky if you do not.

[Dan Parker]

Did you perhaps have a B5 S4?

No, it was a 1st Gen TT.

Someone I know at Audi told me they wanted to get away from turbo charging cars due to the amount of warranty/tuner issues. This was around 2004 I believe. They started to do this to some extent but then when mpg and emissions came front and center a few years later they had no choice but to resort to forced induction to be competitive and compliant with the green initiatives. Back then no one would have imagined BMW going the turbo route and even they did. Now that the M division is all turbo (well, soon) there's no looking back. I'm calling KERS by 2015 in M cars.

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by Dan Parker

No, it was a 1st Gen TT.

Someone I know at Audi told me they wanted to get away from turbo charging cars due to the amount of warranty/tuner issues. This was around 2004 I believe.

Yeah, that was about the time they brought out the 3.2 and started putting that dog of a V8 in every car they made.

That decision to go away from turbo charged performance, add stupid LED patterns to their headlights and the tenancy of their interiors to fall apart after 60k miles lost me as a customer.

[///M1]

I agree that marking a car as TD1 based on say a short shifter is going way overboard. I guess then owner can throw the MM Act at the manufacturer (assuming component for which warranty is sought is unrelated/unaffected by the SSK), but still, you have a legal process ahead of you.

One of the biggest issues I see here is that this goes above and beyond the dealer's call, basically it is out of his hands even if he were willing to help you out. As car is hooked up to the diagnostic equipment, it will throw a TD1 code if it detects a tune. This flags the car in the system, so he bares a huge risk if he were to 'close his eyes' and perform warranty service. There are still 'mod-friendly' dealers out there that have been very accommodating to owners of modified cars, but in this case any power they may have had to do warranty work in-house on a moved car without being scrutinized by the parent company is now gone...

PS: All this is to the benefit of a company called STaSIS, which you can think of the equivalent of Dinan for Audis. A lot of the Audi dealers are Stasis dealers, so you have the ability to get aftermarket products installed at the dealer and still have full warranty coverage. While the products are branded as STaSIS, they are often 3rd party developed products per STaSIS specs (e.g. Ohlins for their suspensions, Alcons for their brake systems). And STaSIS just bought Revo, so now they are big in both the hardware and software arena.

http://www.stasisengineering.com/

[fourtailpipes]

totally fair. if they had to replace all the blown turbos caused by various aftermarket b5s4 tunes back then, they'd still be recovering the costs in 2013 MSRP hikes.

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

totally fair. if they had to replace all the blown turbos caused by various aftermarket b5s4 tunes back then, they'd still be recovering the costs in 2013 MSRP hikes.

Well, in fairness the B5 turbo design was garbage and failed on stock tuned cars as well.

I enjoyed my B5 S4, but I'm very happy i got rid of it at 75K miles.

[Drillslinger]

I disagree based on the verbiage in the document. If Audi says that they can detect aftermarket tunes then they should check whenever they suspect that tuning may have contributed to a warranty claim but to void the entire drivetrain warranty is, IMO excessive. Take for example a CAI, according to the document above, installing an intake or replacement filter with no other mods would relieve Audi of any liability if your transmission failed even though an intake would have no effect on the tranny.

[Drillslinger]

On the other hand, if you take your Audi in with a blown turbo and Audi detects an ECU tune, then they're fully within their rights to deny a warranty claim already, without the need for any additional tracking/warranty codes. And I agree that they SHOULD.

[Dackelone]

So now we know Audi AND BMW both have the ability to see when one of thier car's have been tuned. This should not surprise anyone.