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      11-10-2019, 11:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
My point was simply that, compared to the 135is upgrades, it seems thereís a little more to differentiate the M2 CS from the M2 C, since weíre talking lots of carbon fibre and the adaptive suspension. I guess weíll see.
I have adaptive suspension on my VW Golf R.

Meh.
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      11-10-2019, 12:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by champignon View Post
I have adaptive suspension on my VW Golf R.

Meh.
I'm simply saying that 135is is not a good point of comparison, as it was just some bunch of port installed options with a badge slapped on. I'm not interested in the M2 CS, and I also don't care about adaptive suspension, but it's a little more involved of an upgrade than the 135is was, even if it's essentially just a lot of carbon fiber, an exhaust, a tune and a suspension upgrade.
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      11-10-2019, 02:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
I'm simply saying that 135is is not a good point of comparison, as it was just some bunch of port installed options with a badge slapped on. I'm not interested in the M2 CS, and I also don't care about adaptive suspension, but it's a little more involved of an upgrade than the 135is was, even if it's essentially just a lot of carbon fiber, an exhaust, a tune and a suspension upgrade.
It's not a whole new car, which is what they would have to produce in order for anyone to give a shit about it 10 years from now.

If BMW was really interested in producing a special and collectible car (which I doubt), rather than an overpriced glitzmobile, they'd make a car that would appeal to their (now-departing) fan base. Here are the specs:

(1) 4 door, hatchback, or coupe;
(2) small and light;
(3) minimal intrusiveness from electronics, nannies, nav display, etc.;
(4) roughly 300 hp; that's enough;
(5) RWD;
(6) manual transmission at least offered;
(7) hydraulic steering or vastly improved EPS with real road feel.
(8) performance interior rather than luxury glitz;
(9) MSRP of $45 or $50K
(10) No "M" badges everywhere

This hypothetical car would bring people into the showroom, whether or not they bought this car. It would also retain some "drivers' car personna" within the brand, which is now just about entirely gone from the line.
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      11-10-2019, 03:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
It's not a whole new car, which is what they would have to produce in order for anyone to give a shit about it 10 years from now.

If BMW was really interested in producing a special and collectible car (which I doubt), rather than an overpriced glitzmobile, they'd make a car that would appeal to their (now-departing) fan base. Here are the specs:

(1) 4 door, hatchback, or coupe;
(2) small and light;
(3) minimal intrusiveness from electronics, nannies, nav display, etc.;
(4) roughly 300 hp; that's enough;
(5) RWD;
(6) manual transmission at least offered;
(7) hydraulic steering or vastly improved EPS with real road feel.
(8) performance interior rather than luxury glitz;
(9) MSRP of $45 or $50K
(10) No "M" badges everywhere

This hypothetical car would bring people into the showroom, whether or not they bought this car. It would also retain some "drivers' car personna" within the brand, which is now just about entirely gone from the line.

I certainly agree, personally, but I thought the same thing about the E46 M3 CSL, with its awful transmission, yet people fawn over that car these days. When everything is hybrid/electric in 10-20 years, people will probably do the same over this new limited run CS, for better or worse.
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      11-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #27
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I have one planned. Currently have the 1M I did Euro pick up on and a M2 Perf Ed. Should be getting a CS to go along with them. When my M4 goes back in Dc I plan to make current M2 my Daily Driver along with Jeep and Yukon.
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      11-17-2019, 12:44 PM   #28
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2009 BMW 135i  [4.25]
I drove my car (unfortunately not a 1M, but as close as I could make it without going crazy) and my friend's lightly modded m2cs which I drove with the stock tune and a fast tune. I also drove it back to back on the street with my own car and previously driven a stock n55 m2 on a autox course a few years ago (both m2s were dual clutch).

The m2cs steering feel and suspension felt improved from the older first m2, but still lacks the steering feel I get with my 135i. The m2/m2cs also felt a lot more stable and has much more traction than my car, that being said the extra power of the m2cs still makes it tail happy. The stability is most notable over bumps, but I think that might be due to me putting the subframe inserts in instead of the full M rear sub frame bushings replacements. The m2 also doesn't tramline nearly as much as my car either.

The extra power from mods + the dual clutch makes it feel crazy fast compared to my 135i with just an exhaust, tune, intercooler, and inlets/outlets. The stock power feels close to what I'm making now in the 135i with my mods. When I drove old M2 it kinda felt slow to me, but it felt really balanced.

I still don't really like BMWs infotainment and electronics stuff, but there's really no avoiding it anymore. The ergonomics for everything is good like any other BMW.

I'm not willing to get rid of my 135i yet, but once it starts racking up more miles and becoming less reliable I'm likely going to probably start looking at the m2 and m2cs. I can't think of many new cars today that have that level of power, handling, comfort, and have room to carry nearly everything you could need it to for the price.

I def would not get rid of a 1M for one, but maybe in addition to it
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      11-17-2019, 03:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
I have adaptive suspension on my VW Golf R.

Meh.
I am considering a Golf R addition for winter driving.

One thing I really liked on my test drive was how much I shifted, the gears are pretty short, you actually shift a lot in the car which was great. I am sure it will bore me a bit over time, but I took a flyer on a hot hatch (Focus RS) and it was great, really fun car, amazing really, but it was a little stiff for ski-trips where you go over countless ice-bumps.

The hot-hatch segment is my favorite segment currently, I would have never thought that, but it is still an enthusiast segment with good competition and manual transmissions filled with cars that can be enjoyed at reasonable speed for now..... I fear the Audi/Merc/BMW inclusion will ruin the segment as they focus on 0-60 times and HP wars, but for now, it is a great segment.

As for this thread, I drove an M2C yesterday and I would advise other's to do the same, it was OK, but I much prefer the 1M. 1M feels much smaller, lighter, fun at slow speeds, and steering input is night and day different. M2C is a great looking car and I can see why people love it, it just does not drive how I want a my fun compact-car to drive. At the limit it is probably amazing. If going with a new BMW, I would much prefer the practicality of 4-doors, since I don't like BMW EPS steering, so I plan to get a G80 manual down the road as a daily driver/kid hauler with an older car as my "fun car".

YMMV
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      11-17-2019, 07:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I am considering a Golf R addition for winter driving.

One thing I really liked on my test drive was how much I shifted, the gears are pretty short, you actually shift a lot in the car which was great. I am sure it will bore me a bit over time, but I took a flyer on a hot hatch (Focus RS) and it was great, really fun car, amazing really, but it was a little stiff for ski-trips where you go over countless ice-bumps.

The hot-hatch segment is my favorite segment currently, I would have never thought that, but it is still an enthusiast segment with good competition and manual transmissions filled with cars that can be enjoyed at reasonable speed for now..... I fear the Audi/Merc/BMW inclusion will ruin the segment as they focus on 0-60 times and HP wars, but for now, it is a great segment.

As for this thread, I drove an M2C yesterday and I would advise other's to do the same, it was OK, but I much prefer the 1M. 1M feels much smaller, lighter, fun at slow speeds, and steering input is night and day different. M2C is a great looking car and I can see why people love it, it just does not drive how I want a my fun compact-car to drive. At the limit it is probably amazing. If going with a new BMW, I would much prefer the practicality of 4-doors, since I don't like BMW EPS steering, so I plan to get a G80 manual down the road as a daily driver/kid hauler with an older car as my "fun car".

YMMV
I like my Golf R; it's my most practical car, is fun to drive, to a point, and has more than enough power. I was merely commenting on the adaptive suspension, which is one of the things that can be tuned in the settings. I just tend to leave it on a sporty setting and seldom touch it.
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      11-23-2019, 10:08 PM   #31
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Well, based on a post over on the M2 Forum it looks like the M2cs will be priced at $83,600 usd.....although, this is unofficial.

🤔 I just don't know???

Was hoping it would be at $77-78k with a max of $80k

So, I dunno....just digesting and awaiting official pricing.
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      11-23-2019, 10:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Well, based on a post over on the M2 Forum it looks like the M2cs will be priced at $83,600 usd.....although, this is unofficial.

🤔 I just don't know???

Was hoping it would be at $77-78k with a max of $80k

So, I dunno....just digesting and awaiting official pricing.
just wait a few months after it's launched. you will easily be able to get these at $75k. they're going to have difficulty selling this at $84k.
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      11-23-2019, 10:19 PM   #33
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From a post by Artemis:

With 2200 cars worldwide, I would not call it a unicorn:
1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - still produced (see here);
M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 onwards (see here).

Just wondering based on the numbers if they will be sitting around on dealer lots???
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      11-24-2019, 12:09 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Well, based on a post over on the M2 Forum it looks like the M2cs will be priced at $83,600 usd.....although, this is unofficial.

🤔 I just don't know???

Was hoping it would be at $77-78k with a max of $80k

So, I dunno....just digesting and awaiting official pricing.
just wait a few months after it's launched. you will easily be able to get these at $75k. they're going to have difficulty selling this at $84k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
From a post by Artemis:

With 2200 cars worldwide, I would not call it a unicorn:
1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - still produced (see here);
M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 onwards (see here).

Just wondering based on the numbers if they will be sitting around on dealer lots???

The BMW center that I work for received 3 1M coupes, 1 M4GTS, and probably 3 M3CS and 8 M4CS (we still have 5 of these for sale). If 500 M2CS are going to come to the US market at a base of 83,600, I think they will sell out pretty quickly if they can be had for close to or at MSRP. At that price I bet one or two people drop off any of the respective waitlists. I suspect there would be some on lots for sale, some not sitting for very long while others collecting rain spotting because of greedy dealer markups.

We have 4 people on our waitlist. I suspect we'll get 2 cars.

I agree and think this car should be 75-78k. But I don't think I'm going to walk away over 5k.

Makes you wonder though, that could be a troll over there. OP just dropped that bombshell and disappeared. BMW doing some market research?
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      11-24-2019, 12:44 AM   #35
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Not looking for an $84K car, especially not a small BMW with EPS and a bunch of carbon fiber decoration.

If I did have $84K lying around in search of a car, this one would not be it.
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      11-24-2019, 01:27 AM   #36
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For that much dough Iím buying a GT350 and an ND Miata ...
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      11-24-2019, 01:40 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Not looking for an $84K car, especially not a small BMW with EPS and a bunch of carbon fiber decoration.

If I did have $84K lying around in search of a car, this one would not be it.
unfortunately this is the current state of the 'enthusiast' car world

people get sold by crappy CF bits which add nothing to the actual car. lol.

then they buy these fancy cars and don't even drive them....and then flip them a few years later for the 'next' thing they overpay for and don't drive. it's like a perpetual wasteland!!
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      11-24-2019, 07:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I am considering a Golf R addition for winter driving.

One thing I really liked on my test drive was how much I shifted, the gears are pretty short, you actually shift a lot in the car which was great.
YMMV
Yeah, I got a shorter 3.46 final drive when I put an LSD in my 135i, and it is fun having the shorter gears.

Last edited by duder13; 11-24-2019 at 08:37 PM..
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      11-25-2019, 07:50 AM   #39
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After taking my 1M out this weekend for a lengthy spin, I fell in love with it again... seems that every time I go out, the car gets better. Certainly fast enough, but the looks! You'd think I had a Victoria's Secret model in the car with me.

So having two 1M's in the garage, I just don't see how it could get better.
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      11-25-2019, 03:14 PM   #40
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After taking my 1M out this weekend for a lengthy spin, I fell in love with it again... seems that every time I go out, the car gets better. Certainly fast enough, but the looks! You'd think I had a Victoria's Secret model in the car with me.

So having two 1M's in the garage, I just don't see how it could get better.
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Planning a drive for tomorrow which maybe my last of the season 😢

However, given the M2cs price point, I'm not sure I'm going to take the plunge. Maybe just try to pick one up once the initial hoopla has worn out.

My thinking is as nice and cool as it is. I'm having a hard time justifying its price point in relationship to the M2C and what your really getting for that premium.

Plus, it's not so much of a departure from the M2C like the 1M was from the 135i
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      11-25-2019, 04:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekraps View Post
After taking my 1M out this weekend for a lengthy spin, I fell in love with it again... seems that every time I go out, the car gets better. Certainly fast enough, but the looks! You'd think I had a Victoria's Secret model in the car with me.

So having two 1M's in the garage, I just don't see how it could get better.
I was thinking this last week - every time Iím behind the wheel Iím not sure that I need more in a car for the street. Itís involving, and borders on visceral.
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      11-25-2019, 09:23 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Plus, it's not so much of a departure from the M2C like the 1M was from the 135i
Yep, although the M2CS is WAY more of a departure from the m235i/m240i than the 1M is from the 135i. I bet if BMW would have made a 1M C and 1M CS, many would have been tripping all over themselves to get it.
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      11-25-2019, 09:52 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Yep, although the M2CS is WAY more of a departure from the m235i/m240i than the 1M is from the 135i. I bet if BMW would have made a 1M C and 1M CS, many would have been tripping all over themselves to get it.
well that's an unfair comparison....since the 1M was $47k new and an equivalent 135i back then was around $40k.

the M240i is what $45k? the M2CS is gonna be $85k.

they better add a shit ton of stuff if they're gonna jack the price $40k!!!
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      11-25-2019, 09:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
I was thinking this last week - every time Iím behind the wheel Iím not sure that I need more in a car for the street. Itís involving, and borders on visceral.
same. it's my only car. i'd rather spend my extra money making sure it's running great. getting close to 100k miles. many smiles in the past and many more to come!!

don't need a beater. don't need a weekend car. don't need a 2nd car. i have all i need.
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