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      11-25-2019, 10:44 PM   #45
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well that's an unfair comparison....since the 1M was $47k new and an equivalent 135i back then was around $40k.

the M240i is what $45k? the M2CS is gonna be $85k.

they better add a shit ton of stuff if they're gonna jack the price $40k!!!
Oh, for sure. I just dont understand the pushback on this car around here, because its not enough of an upgrade, when the 1M was the least M car wed seen at the time, and it certainly proved that its more its more about the end result.

The M2CS reminds me a bit of the Cayman R. The Cayman R had some carbon, and small hp bump, a suspension improvement, exhaust and some other little things. It came at noticeable premium, but it was also a noticeable improvement.
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      11-26-2019, 01:06 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Oh, for sure. I just don’t understand the pushback on this car around here, because it’s not enough of an upgrade, when the 1M was the least “M” car we’d seen at the time, and it certainly proved that it’s more it’s more about the end result.

The M2CS reminds me a bit of the Cayman R. The Cayman R had some carbon, and small hp bump, a suspension improvement, exhaust and some other little things. It came at noticeable premium, but it was also a noticeable improvement.
For me the core question I'd pose after reading your post would be, "it's a noticeable improvement on what?"

It's been years since BMW manufactured a car that I'd lust for or salivate over.

I'm not trying to be difficult; I could salivate over a cheaper BMW hot hatch with around 300 HP, RWD, tolerable EPS, and the absence of all the electronic gimmickry that has gotten into the driver's face in the last few years.

But an M2? I own one, a 2018 LCI and although it is a competent car, I never look forward to driving it the way I do with my older cars. The best thing I can say is that it is relatively comfortable to be in on longer drives.

There is nothing you could do to an M2 that would make it worth anything close to $80K, at least not to me. I also own a 2018 Golf R, and both cars are 6MTs. I slightly prefer the M2 to the Golf R, if comfort is the deciding factor, but for utility, the R wins hands down. In a way, I find the R to be a more honest vehicle than the M2, and it certainly is more worth what it cost than is true for the BMW.

This is where we are now; a VW that's more of an "ultimate driving machine" than a much more expensive BMW.
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      11-26-2019, 01:34 AM   #47
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Oh, for sure. I just dont understand the pushback on this car around here, because its not enough of an upgrade, when the 1M was the least M car wed seen at the time, and it certainly proved that its more its more about the end result.

The M2CS reminds me a bit of the Cayman R. The Cayman R had some carbon, and small hp bump, a suspension improvement, exhaust and some other little things. It came at noticeable premium, but it was also a noticeable improvement.
the pushback is that they keep introducing a better version of the M2----and at $85k its very hard to defend the 'baby M car' anymore.

I respect the whole M2 range, but it never had that singular vision like the 1M did.

It's like the explorer that wanted to climb a mountain and prepared for it; but got distracted by some smaller hills along the way and then climbed the mountain next to the one he wanted to climb...
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      11-26-2019, 06:11 AM   #48
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I agree with this ^^

The 1M was a single shot, well executed M sports coupe. The M2 has too many variants & versions + many made.
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      11-26-2019, 07:56 PM   #49
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the pushback is that they keep introducing a better version of the M2----and at $85k its very hard to defend the 'baby M car' anymore.

I respect the whole M2 range, but it never had that singular vision like the 1M did.

It's like the explorer that wanted to climb a mountain and prepared for it; but got distracted by some smaller hills along the way and then climbed the mountain next to the one he wanted to climb...
While I certainly prefer the E82, like everyone here, I don't think the M2 had a less singular vision than the 1M...at least until the M2C. The 1M was still kind of a slapped together car at the last minute, and BMW certainly could have improved on it with later variants. I think it would have been awesome if BMW would have made a 1M C, 1M CS, etc.
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      11-26-2019, 08:01 PM   #50
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For me the core question I'd pose after reading your post would be, "it's a noticeable improvement on what?"

It's been years since BMW manufactured a car that I'd lust for or salivate over.

I'm not trying to be difficult; I could salivate over a cheaper BMW hot hatch with around 300 HP, RWD, tolerable EPS, and the absence of all the electronic gimmickry that has gotten into the driver's face in the last few years.

But an M2? I own one, a 2018 LCI and although it is a competent car, I never look forward to driving it the way I do with my older cars. The best thing I can say is that it is relatively comfortable to be in on longer drives.

There is nothing you could do to an M2 that would make it worth anything close to $80K, at least not to me. I also own a 2018 Golf R, and both cars are 6MTs. I slightly prefer the M2 to the Golf R, if comfort is the deciding factor, but for utility, the R wins hands down. In a way, I find the R to be a more honest vehicle than the M2, and it certainly is more worth what it cost than is true for the BMW.

This is where we are now; a VW that's more of an "ultimate driving machine" than a much more expensive BMW.
Oh, I don't disagree. I'm not excited about any new BMWs or Porsches anymore...but it's a slippery slope. I have some friends who think all BMWs and Porsches made in the past 25 years are crap.
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      11-26-2019, 08:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
While I certainly prefer the E82, like everyone here, I don't think the M2 had a less singular vision than the 1M...at least until the M2C. The 1M was still kind of a slapped together car at the last minute, and BMW certainly could have improved on it with later variants. I think it would have been awesome if BMW would have made a 1M C, 1M CS, etc.
Of course, those rare "slapped together," "Parts Bin" cars that used to be made on occasion are the cars that have kept their value and in some cases, like the 1M, grown in value. They are the cars that collectors lust after. The other such car in my modest stable is a Z3M Coupe, although the less desirable S52 version.

These slapped-together-parts-bin cars benefitted from involvement of the engineers, which was not diluted by the marketing people and the lawyers.

In contrast, the M2, in all its iterations, is a marketing-dept driven vehicle.
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      11-26-2019, 10:07 PM   #52
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So, took the 1M out today, which unfortunately around here in Northern Virginia.....Maybe my last day with it before winter hibernation.

After driving it a solid 140 miles of back roads, I still get a ton of enjoyment and smiles out of this car.

It's making me question dropping upwards of $85k on an M2cs as a stablemate for the 1M?

Maybe something completely different at that price range would make more sense 🤔
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      11-26-2019, 10:08 PM   #53
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Had an OG M2, sold it.

Had an M2 Competition, sold it.

Have a 1M, keeping it.
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      11-26-2019, 10:15 PM   #54
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While I certainly prefer the E82, like everyone here, I don't think the M2 had a less singular vision than the 1M...at least until the M2C. The 1M was still kind of a slapped together car at the last minute, and BMW certainly could have improved on it with later variants. I think it would have been awesome if BMW would have made a 1M C, 1M CS, etc.
no thanks.

the 1M was built purely out of enthusiasm----not some suits sitting around calling the shots.

the original N55 M2 was literally a copycat formula of the 1M but built after way more testing, development, and decision making by BMW. It might have been developed more; but that's not necessarily a plus point.
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      11-27-2019, 12:25 AM   #55
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So, took the 1M out today, which unfortunately around here in Northern Virginia.....Maybe my last day with it before winter hibernation.

After driving it a solid 140 miles of back roads, I still get a ton of enjoyment and smiles out of this car.

It's making me question dropping upwards of $85k on an M2cs as a stablemate for the 1M?

Maybe something completely different at that price range would make more sense 🤔
I feel for you :-) It got up to around 35 today, which was probably the last day for a while for wearing my flip flops out and about . . . . we are supposed to get some serious snow, starting tonight. My 1M has been out of service for a couple of months, most of which I was out of town for and would not have been able to drive it, anyway.
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      11-27-2019, 12:26 AM   #56
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Had an OG M2, sold it.

Had an M2 Competition, sold it.

Have a 1M, keeping it.
My LCI M2 is an OK car; in the winter, it will do :-)
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      11-27-2019, 12:29 AM   #57
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So, took the 1M out today, which unfortunately around here in Northern Virginia.....Maybe my last day with it before winter hibernation.

After driving it a solid 140 miles of back roads, I still get a ton of enjoyment and smiles out of this car.

It's making me question dropping upwards of $85k on an M2cs as a stablemate for the 1M?

Maybe something completely different at that price range would make more sense 🤔
$85K is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a car, unless you have so much of it that it doesn't matter. I love wine, collect it, and drink it every night. After many decades of wine consumption, I have yet to drink a bottle that was really worth more than maybe $150, although I have had many that cost more than that. Yet a lot of people think nothing of spending an average person's weekly income on one bottle of wine.
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      11-27-2019, 07:47 AM   #58
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So, took the 1M out today, which unfortunately around here in Northern Virginia.....Maybe my last day with it before winter hibernation.

After driving it a solid 140 miles of back roads, I still get a ton of enjoyment and smiles out of this car.

It's making me question dropping upwards of $85k on an M2cs as a stablemate for the 1M?

Maybe something completely different at that price range would make more sense 🤔
Why?

Just drive your 1M more. For $85k you can maintain and take care of it like a champion. Don't need a stablemate which will be less fun!!

Winter? Buy some snow tires. You'll have more fun than you can even imagine.
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      11-27-2019, 11:53 AM   #59
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My plan is to keep the 1M and the M2 Perf Ed I currently have and get a M2CS and then decide what to keep and sell.
I'm #1 on the list at my M Dealer locally.
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      11-27-2019, 12:37 PM   #60
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My plan is to keep the 1M and the M2 Perf Ed I currently have and get a M2CS and then decide what to keep and sell.
I'm #1 on the list at my M Dealer locally.
The salesman, sales manager, and F&I guy will all toast your decision at the local steakhouse :-)
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      11-27-2019, 12:41 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
My plan is to keep the 1M and the M2 Perf Ed I currently have and get a M2CS and then decide what to keep and sell.
I'm #1 on the list at my M Dealer locally.
The salesman, sales manager, and F&I guy will all toast your decision at the local steakhouse :-)
I hope they enjoy themselves as much as I enjoy the new M2CS.
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      11-27-2019, 01:19 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, took the 1M out today, which unfortunately around here in Northern Virginia.....Maybe my last day with it before winter hibernation.

After driving it a solid 140 miles of back roads, I still get a ton of enjoyment and smiles out of this car.

It's making me question dropping upwards of $85k on an M2cs as a stablemate for the 1M?

Maybe something completely different at that price range would make more sense 🤔
Such a great picture!
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      11-27-2019, 01:26 PM   #63
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no thanks.

the 1M was built purely out of enthusiasm----not some suits sitting around calling the shots.

the original N55 M2 was literally a copycat formula of the 1M but built after way more testing, development, and decision making by BMW. It might have been developed more; but that's not necessarily a plus point.
I know the idea of the M staff secretly working on the 1M is a great story, but the 1M is better than the M2, because the E82 is a better foundation to build on, not because it was developed in only two weeks when the manager was away. Imagine if they had a month!

If the 1M was perfect to everyone out of the box, 1M owners wouldn't be getting tunes, exhaust, suspension, etc., and these C and CS models just represent BMW's attempt to fill in some of those gaps. I personally think it would have been cool to see a 1MC with an M division engine and some other upgrades.

It's certainly a slippery slope. Everyone claimed the 987.2 Cayman S was just about perfect, and then Porsche released the Cayman R, and then it was just about perfect. Porsche has been doing this for decades, and BMW is following suit.

Again, I personally have no interest in the M2 or any of its variants, but if I had up to $100k to spend (I don't!!!) on something new, and I wanted a small coupe with a real backseat, the M2 series is still kind of the only game in town, so may as well get the best one! Of course, if BMW makes an M2 GTS, that would be a tougher sell, because then you're doing things like removing the backseat for a cage at an even higher price, and, if I don't get a backseat, I'd probably start thinking Porsche at those prices (which is likely why the M4 GTS doesn't sell.)
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      11-27-2019, 01:37 PM   #64
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Of course, those rare "slapped together," "Parts Bin" cars that used to be made on occasion are the cars that have kept their value and in some cases, like the 1M, grown in value. They are the cars that collectors lust after. The other such car in my modest stable is a Z3M Coupe, although the less desirable S52 version.

These slapped-together-parts-bin cars benefitted from involvement of the engineers, which was not diluted by the marketing people and the lawyers.

In contrast, the M2, in all its iterations, is a marketing-dept driven vehicle.
My point is that the strength of the 1M is the underlying E82 it was built on vs. the M2's F22, not because of a two-week development time. The 1M became an immediate collector car, because it was good and they made so few. Had BMW made 40K of them, like the E92 M3, the 1M's value would be much different today.

The Z3M S52 is the first BMW I ever drove. My uncle bought it new and still has it.
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      11-27-2019, 04:49 PM   #65
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The Z3M S52 is the first BMW I ever drove. My uncle bought it new and still has it.
I bought mine from the original owner. It was purchased by her husband as a "Christmas present" and it had amassed 57,400 miles over 15 years of ownership, in Oregon. The seller had stopped driving it due to arthritis and weight gain which made getting in and out of it difficult. I've only run the odometer up to 60,700 (which includes several hundred miles from Oregon to Idaho after purchase) in 4 years. My major problem in driving it is that my car storage more or less dictated that this small vehicle was 3rd deep in a deep garage bay, so getting it out to drive was always a chore. This problem will be resolved next year with a new parking arrangement in a new house (to me).

When the car got listed on Craig's List, I contacted the owner within 5 minutes and he held it long enough for me to fly in 2 days later. He told me that many other people, some of them local, had contacted him almost immediately after I did.

Of course, these are not terribly practical cars, but they are fun to drive.
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      11-27-2019, 10:35 PM   #66
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the pushback is that they keep introducing a better version of the M2----and at $85k its very hard to defend the 'baby M car' anymore.

I respect the whole M2 range, but it never had that singular vision like the 1M did.

It's like the explorer that wanted to climb a mountain and prepared for it; but got distracted by some smaller hills along the way and then climbed the mountain next to the one he wanted to climb...
While I certainly prefer the E82, like everyone here, I don't think the M2 had a less singular vision than the 1M...at least until the M2C. The 1M was still kind of a slapped together car at the last minute, and BMW certainly could have improved on it with later variants. I think it would have been awesome if BMW would have made a 1M C, 1M CS, etc.
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