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      11-27-2019, 10:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Of course, those rare "slapped together," "Parts Bin" cars that used to be made on occasion are the cars that have kept their value and in some cases, like the 1M, grown in value. They are the cars that collectors lust after. The other such car in my modest stable is a Z3M Coupe, although the less desirable S52 version.

These slapped-together-parts-bin cars benefitted from involvement of the engineers, which was not diluted by the marketing people and the lawyers.

In contrast, the M2, in all its iterations, is a marketing-dept driven vehicle.
My point is that the strength of the 1M is the underlying E82 it was built on vs. the M2's F22, not because of a two-week development time. The 1M became an immediate collector car, because it was good and they made so few. Had BMW made 40K of them, like the E92 M3, the 1M's value would be much different today.

The Z3M S52 is the first BMW I ever drove. My uncle bought it new and still has it.
I sold my 2002 M coupe in 2010 to order my 1M and I still have it with no regrets
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      11-29-2019, 04:41 PM   #68
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I Lol at all these different threads! There must be a term for the idea that "I am the last person who made a good decision!". It's on every group. I remember the E46 M guys boowooing the 1M. It's not a true M car because of the motor and/or turbos and the "completion pack" guys talking junk about the GTS cars and everyone crapping on the V-8's. It seems to happen all the time with every new product Intro. Many of you guys remind me of the old farts who sit around car shows and claim the last good BMW was a 2002! If you don't want it because it's expensive, that's cool. If you don't want it cause it's new and different, well that's your call.
I've had pretty many BMW's over the years. 2002, E30's, ae30 M'a, E36, E46, E60's etc. pretty much all M cars and while I still love my 1M I find a ton of fun in my M2 Perf Ed and plan to try a M2 CS. I'm sorry if you don't like the newest M2 but I am pretty sure it will be another great car. End of my thought. I just thought it was funny to see how different forums respond.
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      11-30-2019, 09:26 PM   #69
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same. it's my only car. i'd rather spend my extra money making sure it's running great. getting close to 100k miles. many smiles in the past and many more to come!!

don't need a beater. don't need a weekend car. don't need a 2nd car. i have all i need.
Hope that wasn't yours I saw this past week in front of body shop with the front end pretty well bashed near my son's place in Brooklyn!
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      11-30-2019, 09:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I Lol at all these different threads! There must be a term for the idea that "I am the last person who made a good decision!". It's on every group. I remember the E46 M guys boowooing the 1M. It's not a true M car because of the motor and/or turbos and the "completion pack" guys talking junk about the GTS cars and everyone crapping on the V-8's. It seems to happen all the time with every new product Intro. Many of you guys remind me of the old farts who sit around car shows and claim the last good BMW was a 2002! If you don't want it because it's expensive, that's cool. If you don't want it cause it's new and different, well that's your call.
I've had pretty many BMW's over the years. 2002, E30's, ae30 M'a, E36, E46, E60's etc. pretty much all M cars and while I still love my 1M I find a ton of fun in my M2 Perf Ed and plan to try a M2 CS. I'm sorry if you don't like the newest M2 but I am pretty sure it will be another great car. End of my thought. I just thought it was funny to see how different forums respond.
Sounds like you fit right in!
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      11-30-2019, 09:40 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em/1 View Post
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Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I Lol at all these different threads! There must be a term for the idea that "I am the last person who made a good decision!". It's on every group. I remember the E46 M guys boowooing the 1M. It's not a true M car because of the motor and/or turbos and the "completion pack" guys talking junk about the GTS cars and everyone crapping on the V-8's. It seems to happen all the time with every new product Intro. Many of you guys remind me of the old farts who sit around car shows and claim the last good BMW was a 2002! If you don't want it because it's expensive, that's cool. If you don't want it cause it's new and different, well that's your call.
I've had pretty many BMW's over the years. 2002, E30's, ae30 M'a, E36, E46, E60's etc. pretty much all M cars and while I still love my 1M I find a ton of fun in my M2 Perf Ed and plan to try a M2 CS. I'm sorry if you don't like the newest M2 but I am pretty sure it will be another great car. End of my thought. I just thought it was funny to see how different forums respond.
Sounds like you fit right in!
Maybe....
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      12-03-2019, 01:27 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I Lol at all these different threads! There must be a term for the idea that "I am the last person who made a good decision!". It's on every group. I remember the E46 M guys boowooing the 1M. It's not a true M car because of the motor and/or turbos and the "completion pack" guys talking junk about the GTS cars and everyone crapping on the V-8's. It seems to happen all the time with every new product Intro. Many of you guys remind me of the old farts who sit around car shows and claim the last good BMW was a 2002! If you don't want it because it's expensive, that's cool. If you don't want it cause it's new and different, well that's your call.
I've had pretty many BMW's over the years. 2002, E30's, ae30 M'a, E36, E46, E60's etc. pretty much all M cars and while I still love my 1M I find a ton of fun in my M2 Perf Ed and plan to try a M2 CS. I'm sorry if you don't like the newest M2 but I am pretty sure it will be another great car. End of my thought. I just thought it was funny to see how different forums respond.
I was soooooo tempted to respond to this post but avoided doing so because I found it so smug and self-important.

I still do.

p.s. never went to a car show, other than a cars and coffee.
p.p.s. always a mistake to judge other's by what you think are their motivations; you will probably be wrong.
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      12-03-2019, 06:30 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I Lol at all these different threads! There must be a term for the idea that "I am the last person who made a good decision!". It's on every group. I remember the E46 M guys boowooing the 1M. It's not a true M car because of the motor and/or turbos and the "completion pack" guys talking junk about the GTS cars and everyone crapping on the V-8's. It seems to happen all the time with every new product Intro. Many of you guys remind me of the old farts who sit around car shows and claim the last good BMW was a 2002! If you don't want it because it's expensive, that's cool. If you don't want it cause it's new and different, well that's your call.
I've had pretty many BMW's over the years. 2002, E30's, ae30 M'a, E36, E46, E60's etc. pretty much all M cars and while I still love my 1M I find a ton of fun in my M2 Perf Ed and plan to try a M2 CS. I'm sorry if you don't like the newest M2 but I am pretty sure it will be another great car. End of my thought. I just thought it was funny to see how different forums respond.
I was soooooo tempted to respond to this post but avoided doing so because I found it so smug and self-important.

I still do.

p.s. never went to a car show, other than a cars and coffee.
p.p.s. always a mistake to judge other's by what you think are their motivations; you will probably be wrong.
You clearly miss my point. I was simply saying that as a car guy I find good in pretty much any car. Not trying for anything other then light hearted poke of fun at how we all(myself especially)pick apart new offerings and what these car companies do.
Sorry if it offended
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      12-04-2019, 08:28 PM   #74
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It appears from the various M2 CS threads that several 1M owners are looking to either upgrade to the M2 CS or add an M2 CS to the stable. Good luck to everyone, it looks like a terrific little car. And the factory warranty will be great to have.
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      12-04-2019, 10:13 PM   #75
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If the 1M was perfect to everyone out of the box, 1M owners wouldn't be getting tunes, exhaust, suspension, etc., and these C and CS models just represent BMW's attempt to fill in some of those gaps. I personally think it would have been cool to see a 1MC with an M division engine and some other upgrades.

It's certainly a slippery slope. Everyone claimed the 987.2 Cayman S was just about perfect, and then Porsche released the Cayman R, and then it was just about perfect. Porsche has been doing this for decades, and BMW is following suit.
1. my 1M is bone stock and i'd never want to tune it.
2. i cross-shopped the Cayman R and 1M when i was buying---and chose the 1M. could have bought either.

for many of us the 1M is the perfect car. It's way more enjoyable than the M2. Not sure if you've ever driven a 1M but it's not like any other modern BMW, imo. Not one that i've driven anyways....and i've driven most of them.

Not everyone wants researched engineering. Some of us want something simple and basic. The purity of motoring.

People who tune cars may seek more enjoyment---or they might just be buying into the marketing and hype of getting a tune. Says nothing about a car.
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      12-06-2019, 10:55 PM   #76
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1. my 1M is bone stock and i'd never want to tune it.
2. i cross-shopped the Cayman R and 1M when i was buying---and chose the 1M. could have bought either.

for many of us the 1M is the perfect car. It's way more enjoyable than the M2. Not sure if you've ever driven a 1M but it's not like any other modern BMW, imo. Not one that i've driven anyways....and i've driven most of them.

Not everyone wants researched engineering. Some of us want something simple and basic. The purity of motoring.

People who tune cars may seek more enjoyment---or they might just be buying into the marketing and hype of getting a tune. Says nothing about a car.
I also think the 1M is the best stock BMW in a long time, but it could always be better, which is my point. I'd never choose any M2 series over the 1M, but I'm certainly cool with BMW making better and better versions of the M2, and I think it would have been cool if BMW did the same with the 1M (and made more in 1Ms in general.)

I mean, even Chris Harris has done some mods like an exhaust and tune on his 1M, and I'm not sure I'd say he's someone who buys into hype. He's just trying to improve the car where he sees fit.

Oddly enough, I had one friend buy a Cayman R this year and another friend sell his 1M. I probably preferring driving a Cayman a little (I also used to own one,) but the practicality of the BMW puts it over the top for me.

Either way, to get back to the OP, I likely wouldn’t trade the 1M for an M2, M2C or M2CS! I wouldn’t even trade my modded 135i for it.

Last edited by duder13; 12-06-2019 at 11:32 PM..
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      12-06-2019, 11:59 PM   #77
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The 1M is a very nice car; I am glad to own one. Is it the best BMW ever made? Probably not. What it was probably has more to do with the timing of its release than anything else, since it was basically the end of the line for what "BMW, the Ultimate Driving Machine" meant to a lot of people (us). You could argue that the 135is was the end of the line, also perhaps a valid argument.

Once you got rid of hydraulic power steering (or at least steering with meaningful feedback) and turn the cabin into the automotive version of a pinball machine with all the electronics, you have lost something. I think that the 1M had too much of that stuff as well, particularly if the car has iDrive and Nav, but it has only gotten worse. My Golf R is even worse than my M2 when it comes to electronic nannies; there are a whole host of things you cannot adjust or even look at when the car is in motion, to the point where it is so distracting that it introduces more, not less distraction to driving. I need to spend the time to code that shit out, if it's possible to do so.

Anyway, I think that BMW believes that their market is more attuned to luxury touches, electronic gizmos, and raw horsepower than it is to such things as connectedness with the car while driving. Perhaps this is/was inevitable. I don't see a lot of other car manufacturers stepping into the breech to try to fill the void.

Some of us consider these sorts of cars to be a passion or hobby. When the car starts to become just a fast and powerful vehicle that no longer connects with you personally, then the question becomes, why bother with it? Cars are more than just transportation, they can be comfortable or uncomfortable, practical or impractical, cheap or expensive. There is no end to the number of powerful vehicles that are comfortable and utilitarian. One of those will probably be my next daily driver unless someone decides to build the sort of car I used to love to drive (and which fortunately I still have a small collection of).
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Last edited by champignon; 12-07-2019 at 01:46 PM..
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      12-07-2019, 01:01 AM   #78
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Side note re: Golf R coding headunit nannies super easy and reasonably economical with an OBDeleven.
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      12-07-2019, 01:56 PM   #79
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Side note re: Golf R coding headunit nannies super easy and reasonably economical with an OBDeleven.
Thanks, I'll check this out.

I already have a Carly unit (BMW version). Wonder if this would work in the VW R, also?
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      12-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #80
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I also think the 1M is the best stock BMW in a long time, but it could always be better, which is my point. I'd never choose any M2 series over the 1M, but I'm certainly cool with BMW making better and better versions of the M2, and I think it would have been cool if BMW did the same with the 1M (and made more in 1Ms in general.)

I mean, even Chris Harris has done some mods like an exhaust and tune on his 1M, and I'm not sure I'd say he's someone who buys into hype. He's just trying to improve the car where he sees fit.

Oddly enough, I had one friend buy a Cayman R this year and another friend sell his 1M. I probably preferring driving a Cayman a little (I also used to own one,) but the practicality of the BMW puts it over the top for me.

Either way, to get back to the OP, I likely wouldn’t trade the 1M for an M2, M2C or M2CS! I wouldn’t even trade my modded 135i for it.
less than 600 Cayman Rs were brought to the US for a price around $67k

740 BMW 1Ms were brought to the US for a price around $46k.

They both currently sell in the $55-70k range.

There's a reason for that....and it's not production numbers. If anything you'd think the Cayman R would be the more popular car. it's the sheer excitement of the 1M. i have driven the Cayman R and 1M back to back and found the 1M to be a much more exciting and interesting car---which is why i put my money where my mouth is and bought one!
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