Michelin Pilot AS4's, doable for winter if you can pick your battles??

[David70]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

That's the key thing... you cannot control the vast majority of emergency situations. The ability to stop and change direction is everything.

I recommend avoiding all emergency situations and accidents, just seems like the wise thing to do.

[c1pher]

I drive my AS4s all seasons but I’m also not stupid. I take my truck if the weather is overly crappy.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

its the sudden braking and turning that will get you.

That's kinda my argument for running quality all seasons in a place with moderate winters where temps are routinely 15 to 45 degrees, sub 30" total snow falls (typically 1" to 3" snow events), rarely snow on the streets except a day or so after a snow event, etc.

I've had winter tires and they are pretty damn good in sub 4" snow and extreme sub zero cold, but once temps get above 35 degrees or so, winter tire traction degrades. Even worse with true snow tires. Handling and braking are negatively affected and it gets almost dangerous above 50. That's why I run quality all seasons in the Kansas City which has moderate winters and temps usually 20-45 degrees. If there is snow on all the streets, I won't take my all season-equipped cars out unless I absolutely need to. I'm not afraid to drive in light snow, rather it's the other drivers I don't trust. There are very few reasons that I must be out in the snow and if I must go, I'll take my wife's 4Runner unless of course I got stuck in a situation where it snowed while I was out in my M235 or Cayman. That would be odd as I watch the weather fairly closely on my phone.

[Alfisti]

OP lives downtown Toronto, he ain't going fucking nowhere if it properly snows, and I mean fucking nowhere. The traffic will be at a standstill. The roads are flat, arrow straight and plowed and TBH it has barely snowed the last 7 or so winters out of the last 10. Literally all you need winter tyres for here is stop signs to help with braking.

[baege]

thought I should update this thread since Ive been on the AS4s for a few months now.

Quite happy with these tires. Good dry performance (I cant tell the difference from the PS4s when driving the car in a spirited manner, I dont track), great wet performance, work well in cold and decent traction in snow (drove it a couple times where there was about 2-3 cm on the ground).

Pretty great solution if you can pick your battles over the winter, at least for a mid engine rwd drive car that has decent traction given the placement of the engine. They seem pretty much as good in the snow as the Alpin PA4s I had before, but that was on a front engine rwd car so not apples to apples.

[Alfisti]

Yeah my CrossCLimate2's have been good too, tbh they feel a bit better in winter than they do in summer where the soft compound and the directional tread feels very mushy.

But I do 3K KM a yr, grew tired of the hassle of two sets of wheels/tyres for two cars, just fucking headache.

[DrVenture]

I have yet to see how these Continental DSW 06+ behave in actual snow. But, I had the less well-regarded Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season plus on my last high HP AWD sedan and they kicked ass. I easily kept up with SUVs and even 4x4 trucks in both accelerating and stopping. This coming from someone who did a lot of driving in inclement weather at night with unplowed or partially plowed roads.

I agree with the folks who are not sold on dedicated snow tires for occasional snowfall. I grew up driving RWD cars with crappy bias plys and no ABS, so snow driving a modern car with AWD on modern AS tires doesn't remotely faze me.

[XutvJet]

Since my last post in September, I got rid of my 2016 M235 6MT and got a 2018 M2 DCT in November. The M2 came with brand new PS4s and I installed the AS4s because the M2 is my daily. I've driven through 2"-4" inches of snow with the M2 and it was OK. Unsurprisingly, with the wider foot print of the M2's tires, the tires ride more on the snow rather than cut into it like the narrower AS4s did on the M235. I think 1"-2" of snow is all I'm willing to tackle in the M2.

We got 12" of snow in early January which is something that only happens every 10 years or so. Within 24 hours of the event, the streets were cleared enough to drive the M2 and with no concerns of getting stuck or sliding into something.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I have yet to see how these Continental DSW 06+ behave in actual snow. But, I had the less well-regarded Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season plus on my last high HP AWD sedan and they kicked ass. I easily kept up with SUVs and even 4x4 trucks in both accelerating and stopping. This coming from someone who did a lot of driving in inclement weather at night with unplowed or partially plowed roads.

I agree with the folks who are not sold on dedicated snow tires for occasional snowfall. I grew up driving RWD cars with crappy bias plys and no ABS, so snow driving a modern car with AWD on modern AS tires doesn't remotely faze me.

The Continental DSW 06 is REALLY good in the snow. You give up a little handling to the AS4, but you get better winter traction. I had the Continental DSW 06 on my 2012 WRX and it was impressive.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I have yet to see how these Continental DSW 06+ behave in actual snow. But, I had the less well-regarded Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season plus on my last high HP AWD sedan and they kicked ass. I easily kept up with SUVs and even 4x4 trucks in both accelerating and stopping. This coming from someone who did a lot of driving in inclement weather at night with unplowed or partially plowed roads.

I agree with the folks who are not sold on dedicated snow tires for occasional snowfall. I grew up driving RWD cars with crappy bias plys and no ABS, so snow driving a modern car with AWD on modern AS tires doesn't remotely faze me.

DSW06 are really good in snow but I found they wore faster than the Michelin Pilot Sport AS4.

And me too, bias ply in winter, no TC or ABS, and oh, DRUM BRAKES!

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by baege

They seem pretty much as good in the snow as the Alpin PA4s I had before, but that was on a front engine rwd car so not apples to apples.

I ran performance winter tires (Vredestein Wintrac Pro) followed by UHP all season tires (Goodyear Eagle Exhilarate and now BFGoodrich G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus) on my BRZ and I had the same experience. They were about on-par in the snow, and the performance winter tires were very mushy and had a bit less grip in dry and wet. I think performance winter tires are a bit of a miss (or they might not get as much R&D investment from manufacturers) - not enough grip in snow/ice yet sacrifice dry/wet grip a little and sharpness/handling quite a lot.
It might be that performance winter tires would be better than UHP all seasons for dry and very cold roads, but I tend to not drive aggressively in these conditions anyway (never know when a shaded patch will have some black ice).

[wrickem]

I normally run Continental DWS06's on my DD and I like them all year around.

In Dec when I picked up my 840 DD, they were back ordered and there were limited choices in my size. I didn't want to run the summer tires in a NJ winter (you never know day-to-day) so I ordered Vredesten Quatrac Pro+ all weather touring and I think I may like them a bit better than the Continentals. They've been smooth and quiet on the warmer dry days, and really great on the cold days and in the snow. I guess time will tell though, but so far, so good.

[baege]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I have yet to see how these Continental DSW 06+ behave in actual snow. But, I had the less well-regarded Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season plus on my last high HP AWD sedan and they kicked ass. I easily kept up with SUVs and even 4x4 trucks in both accelerating and stopping. This coming from someone who did a lot of driving in inclement weather at night with unplowed or partially plowed roads.

I agree with the folks who are not sold on dedicated snow tires for occasional snowfall. I grew up driving RWD cars with crappy bias plys and no ABS, so snow driving a modern car with AWD on modern AS tires doesn't remotely faze me.

my 18 m240i xdrive came from the factory with all seasons, I think pirellis of some kind, and it was better in the snow than my M2 with full snow tires (alpin pa4s mind you)


I totally felt at ease in snow in the m240i, not so much in the M2

[MaxVO2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

DSW06 are really good in snow but I found they wore faster than the Michelin Pilot Sport AS4.

And me too, bias ply in winter, no TC or ABS, and oh, DRUM BRAKES!

****Wow. I have some classic cars with drum brakes on the back and discs on the front and they stop remarkably well for what they are.

Obviously no anti-lock or traction control etc.. but many less expensive cars still come with drum brakes as they are cheaper and easier to make I guess. The big issue WAS bias ply tires in the snow... Omg, that was just crazy slippery on a rear wheel drive car with posi-traction - crazy oversteer issues which on a powerful car could send it spinning 180 not even getting into it -just slippery in precipitation but potentially deadly in snow.

[DrVenture]

Which leads me to the time I had to pull out of a tight parking spot on a sideways incline. The ground had iced up and I had posi with the cold idle of a Holley 780. I had to reach out the drivers window and use my left arm to push off the car next to me, so I didn't sideswipe it. Every time I let off the brakes it just slid closer.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MaxVO2

****Wow. I have some classic cars with drum brakes on the back and discs on the front and they stop remarkably well for what they are.

Obviously no anti-lock or traction control etc.. but many less expensive cars still come with drum brakes as they are cheaper and easier to make I guess. The big issue WAS bias ply tires in the snow... Omg, that was just crazy slippery on a rear wheel drive car with posi-traction - crazy oversteer issues which on a powerful car could send it spinning 180 not even getting into it -just slippery in precipitation but potentially deadly in snow.

Try drums on the front.

[SpaceSilverX1.]

Originally Posted by wrickem

so I ordered Vredesten Quatrac Pro+ all weather touring and I think I may like them a bit better than the Continentals. They've been smooth and quiet on the warmer dry days, and really great on the cold days and in the snow. I guess time will tell though, but so far, so good.

How are you liking the Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ tires? Ride, noise or wear?

I'm thinking about ordering them from the TireRack. They seem to be one of the most highly rated(even have good reviews posted by BMW drivers). However, I have never had Vredestein tires before.

Thanks!

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilverX1.

How are you liking the Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ tires? Ride, noise or wear?

I'm thinking about ordering them from the TireRack. They seem to be one of the most highly rated(even have good reviews posted by BMW drivers). However, I have never had Vredestein tires before.

Thanks!

6000 miles and still am very happy with the ride, the grip and the quietness of them. Great in dry, rain and the snow we had this winter.
I’ve only ever had Vredestein dedicated snows which were impressive, and these all seasons are just as impressive. I’ll probably stick with these instead of going back to my usual Continental for my next set.

[M3Sleeper]

I see you said ALL seasons. I thought for a second you were looking to run summer tires on the RWD in the winter.

If you are very good at driving RWD cars and you don't get caught on ice or heavy snow you should be okay.

Its really just not worth it though....if you can afford the winter tires get them and you won't have to worry.

One accident is all that needs to happen and its not worth the savings.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilverX1.

How are you liking the Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ tires? Ride, noise or wear?

I'm thinking about ordering them from the TireRack. They seem to be one of the most highly rated(even have good reviews posted by BMW drivers). However, I have never had Vredestein tires before.

Thanks!

IMO, Vredestein's are super underrated and are a great deal compared to Michelin and Continental. I've got them on both of my cars (Hypertrac All seasons on my i4, Ultrac Pros on my Z4M) and have been totally happy with both.

If you read the reviews on Tirerack, they're pretty much neck-and-neck with Michelin and Continental. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.