Is there a car company that you can honestly say has NOT lost its way?

[N1rve]

As someone who used to work in the automotive field as a technician, I will say that all cars suck. Some suck less than others, but they all suck. Previously known reliable cars like Camry, Corolla, Civic, and Accord have issues. The 8th Gen Camry (Pre 2025) had transmission issues, Corolla has CVT smoothness issues and Honda had oil dilution issues with turbo engines and now have sticking steering. Honda also had underpowered infotainment systems which was extremely slow.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You mean the new CX-50, correct? The current CX-5 is from 2017 and has mostly manual controls for the traditional functions of HVAC, windows, etc. The CX-50 pretty much as the same control design as the CX-5.

2026 CX-5. Gone are physical controls. All in the damn screen now. Dumb. You'd think they'd learn a lesson from VW making this mistake.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

All things considered, most buyers don't want cars that do 0-60 under 7 seconds and most would be fearful of going full throttle and experiencing a 6 second or less 0-60. Mazda knows their market very well and what most of their buyer's want.

Don't get me wrong though, I was really holding out hope that Mazda was going to have something really special with those new I6 motors. Turns out that they really focused more on MPGs, low and mid range power, and smoothness vs all out power like BMW does so freaking well with their I6s. No one can touch BMW in that respect. Same with BMW's choice of using those stellar ZF automatics.

The PHEV is faster than the Turbo S. So it wasn't a choice to make it slow because of consumer preference, it just is a weak motor, either because it couldn't hold boost well, their transmission is garbage vs the ZF8, or they just missed the mark with the motor. Reviewers tend to complain about lack of low end power, and that the Turbo S doesn't feel any more powerful than the base Turbo until high into the rev range where it makes more boost, and requires premium to boot.

I was hoping for more from the Mazda too. It didn't need to have 600hp, but it's a 340hp vehicle that moves like a 270hp one. It's literally slower than the explorer 2.3t which makes less power and runs on regular.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Nah. I can find posts here from over 5 years ago when people were making fun of the big grilles with grim predictions for BMW future sales. Not only were those people wrong, they were pretty well 180 from reality. BMW will keep riding the wave of momentum until Audi and MB can get their acts together and VAG right now is not in a good place.

I will say Neue Klasse looks very promising but the masses are not very predictable so better styling may not lead to better sales.

Did you see the ix3 launched today? It looks like cheap trash. Made worse that MB launched the new GLC which also looks cheap, but it's at least an attractive design.

The only grilles I though BMW made too big were the M3/4. Those nostrils look terrible. But even the X7 grille wasn't insanely big all things considered.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Did you see the ix3 launched today? It looks like cheap trash. Made worse that MB launched the new GLC which also looks cheap, but it's at least an attractive design.

The only grilles I though BMW made too big were the M3/4. Those nostrils look terrible. But even the X7 grille wasn't insanely big all things considered.

I think the iX3 looks far better than the GLC EV. The GLC looks like an Audi if you stuck some rings on the front and back. The interior has that one big stupid screen.

[ShocknAwe]

Toyota Mazda Genesis Cadillac. I'd rate Honda as making a slow return as well.

Alfa? I'd put it on the list too.

I'm sad to see the state of the Germans. But if I was looking for a new car I'd look to Japan or Caddy more than likely.

Mostly a reflection of the SUV/Big Everything market and emissions requirements.

Probably why I don't have anything newer than 2013 in my garage.

[Alfisti]

The 2T Giulia is the best bang for buck out there used right now. 6 years old, under 60K miles and under $20K CDN, if you don't do a lot of miles it's amazing value and the 2T has been very solid, most of the issues are with the big boy engine.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

2026 CX-5. Gone are physical controls. All in the damn screen now. Dumb. You'd think they'd learn a lesson from VW making this mistake.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to Mazda and a revised CX-5. I thought once the CX-50 came out two years ago the CX-5 was on its way out once the 2nd gen ran through its production cycle. Strange to keep the CX-5 and CX-50 as offerings; there is barely any difference between them (current 2025's).

And I get your VW comment. My brother just bought a new GTI. He brought it down on Sunday for a looksee. Other than the screen shit, what a great car for the money. He's a (aging) diehard manual guy like me, but he's digging the DCT. Not liking the screen too much.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

He's a (aging) diehard manual guy like me, but he's digging the DCT. Not liking the screen too much.

I can definitively say if I can't have a manual I'd rather have a ZF6/8. I don't understand the appeal of the DCT/PDK.

[gonzo]

Hey, IMAX addicted interior teams!!!

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

All things considered, most buyers don't want cars that do 0-60 under 7 seconds and most would be fearful of going full throttle and experiencing a 6 second or less 0-60.

You are joking, right?
I've never met, heard of, or can imagine a car buyer walking out of a dealership without sale because the car on offer was "too fast for me".
No such thing.
Happened.
Ever.

0-60 above 7 seconds?
We would have to go back into 1980s with E30s.
Hack, a Honda Odyssey does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds these days!

Originally Posted by 412g80

Not falling into the EV trap and offers plethora of models within 30k - 70k.
Heck they have 15 SUV models last time I checked their website.

Yeah, that's probably 10 too many.
And Toyota/Lexus does offer a few EVs, I own one of those

Originally Posted by BlkGS

BMW I think is set for a period of massive flops. Everything they introduced lately has been worse than the previous model. GM is iffy, they still have the platforms and powertrains, and styling wise they're ok, but they don't have any real products on the way that sound good aside from crazy high end Corvettes.

BMW sales are +4% y/y.
Chevy +2% y/y, GMC & Caddy are +9% y/y.

I think they are all doing something right.
That "something" may not include anything that you or I want to buy, but they are building and selling what the bulk of the customers want - big and fugly trucks galore.

It is what it is.

a

[Alfisti]

Jeeez mate, I would know of plenty. Around here drivers are EXTREMELY timid, roads are arrow straight, any sensation of speed or weight transfer is met with the driver going hard on the brakes. I could legit see nervous upper middle class types not wanting a "scary" car.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Generally, yes, I agree that a vast majority have lost their way, but I also have to think there are two other major factors involved:

1) I grew up in the mid-1980s to mid-1990s, and in my mind and many others as well, that was one of the greatest automotive eras. I think it's the greatest as it pertains to styling, reliability, and performance. It was an exciting time. I think my age clouds my opinion of today's complex, over-styled, tech rides.

2) Cars are catering more towards the younger generations. Fewer of them care about the driving experience. They want tech and creature comforts. They know little, nor care that much about timeless styling or real driving dynamics. At least that's my opinion


I do feel that automakers are cramming unnecessary tech and complication into their offerings, many of these things people don't even want. However, with the advent of "screens" and all the haptic controls they can offer with no expense on the automaker to have to make manual switchgear, modules, and such, they are throwing unnecessary crap and complication into the cars.

snip

Older generations will say 50s and 60s, others like 70s, for me the 80s were the introduction of plastic. 90s was plastic and the introduction of the manufacturer attempting to control their product, ie the customers car. My father in-law will say nothing has really been invented in the auto industry since the 30s. Superchargers, turbos, fuel injection, disc brakes, convertibles etc were all done by then. Even electric cars.

Think the US way of doing business with globalization has some bearing. Once upon a time a car was made by its country for its country, its needs and its population. If they cracked some interest in the US then happy days. Nowadays it seems car manufacturers make universal cars for the world, and with so many cultures, needs and wants looses its way. Also seems they are trying to crack the US with the rest of the world a regrettable second.

Secondly safety and emission requirements have corralled manufacturers into all trying to lasso the same bull so to speak, so few are brave and creative with many dismissing the task required or see it as too hard like Caterpillar.

Unnecessary tech....iPhone, Microsoft, Apple, Tesla are chocked with it. Just about everything out of the US is over teched, complicated, and arguably too expansive for it. $1400 for a phone when really all you need is it to make calls, check texts, emails, and the weather. Then in 5 years its obsolete because it can no longer upgrade. Tesla's push for driverless cars when in reality who needs it, and the driver has to stay on the job anyway to correct a malfunction in a split second as its proving to killed many as it stands. Apple with its largely unfixable desk tops, simply replace or upgrade and stay current. All sounds like the Auto industry really with its bells and whistles on unnecessary shit.

[BlkGS]

My wife doesn't like to drive my X5 M50i because it's so fast, lol. She also doesn't like driving my Trailblazer SS for the same reason. Ironically, she dislikes the speed for opposite reasons. She says the Trailblazer is loud and violent (fair), but that the X5 is too quiet and puts on speed more than you intend or realize (again, very fair). Frankly most times I drove the X5 intended up going much faster than intended because of that, it puts on speed like crazy at highway speeds, you give it a quick burst of throttle to pass at like 75 and look down and you're going 94moh.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by N1rve

As someone who used to work in the automotive field as a technician, I will say that all cars suck. Some suck less than others, but they all suck. Previously known reliable cars like Camry, Corolla, Civic, and Accord have issues. The 8th Gen Camry (Pre 2025) had transmission issues, Corolla has CVT smoothness issues and Honda had oil dilution issues with turbo engines and now have sticking steering. Honda also had underpowered infotainment systems which was extremely slow.

Reckon the Toyota tax is worth paying. I would have bought a 2010ish Lexus 2 door but could not afford it, so bought an E92. This is second hand.

The wife has a 2015 PriusC hybrid for the run around. In 10 years ownership we have spent $3000 in 250,000km. $30 and it goes 700km.

I bought the neighbors 2004 2.4 auto Camry as a first car for my daughter. $800 plus $1200 of fluids, filters, new control arms, and shocks all round.

It has lived outside its whole life but paint is good after a polish. Cars runs faultlessly with no rattles, squeaks, rust, or smoke. 180,000km

Toyota are boring as, but value for money in a league of their own.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jeeez mate, I would know of plenty. Around here drivers are EXTREMELY timid, roads are arrow straight, any sensation of speed or weight transfer is met with the driver going hard on the brakes. I could legit see nervous upper middle class types not wanting a "scary" car.

+1

I'd even go so far they have been brain washed into driving 10 under as its "safe". "Every K over is a killer" has been the crap pushed down our throats here in Australia.

At a BBQ on the weekend I let it slip the new second hand E93 taps 200 without hesitation. I brought the car back from interstate and when the designated 2 lane highway was completely clear I let it go. Said I haven't been 200 for years.....it went down like a lead balloon.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by afadeev

You are joking, right?
I've never met, heard of, or can imagine a car buyer walking out of a dealership without sale because the car on offer was "too fast for me".
No such thing.
Happened.
Ever.

Even if we assume you're right, there are plenty of people who've walked into and out of a dealership without ever really considering how fast the car was – much less geeky 0-60 times – because they're all pretty much "fast enough" for the vast majority of drivers. The truth of the matter is that how fast a modern car is only matters to a small percentage of the population; it just so happens that forums like this are full of them, so you get confirmation bias that everyone must care about it. They don't.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that 90%+ of the driving population has absolutely no idea how much hp their vehicle has, much less its 0-60 time. So long as it's fast enough to merge into traffic on the highway, they just don't care.

[dumptruck]

Peak car was the f87 bmw m2. (~35mins)

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jaffles

+1

I'd even go so far they have been brain washed into driving 10 under as its "safe". "Every K over is a killer" has been the crap pushed down our throats here in Australia.

At a BBQ on the weekend I let it slip the new second hand E93 taps 200 without hesitation. I brought the car back from interstate and when the designated 2 lane highway was completely clear I let it go. Said I haven't been 200 for years.....it went down like a lead balloon.

Australia is another level of speedo watching, it is insanely tough to drive there as you watch the speedo more than the road.

[M3Sleeper]

Rolls Royce has not lost their way. Have they come into the future yes...lost their way...I don't think so.

Bentley has stayed true to what they are and were.

I get what your saying though...times change and companies look to adapt or die. Sometimes in the process of adapting they go too far.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Even if we assume you're right, there are plenty of people who've walked into and out of a dealership without ever really considering how fast the car was – much less geeky 0-60 times – because they're all pretty much "fast enough" for the vast majority of drivers. The truth of the matter is that how fast a modern car is only matters to a small percentage of the population; it just so happens that forums like this are full of them, so you get confirmation bias that everyone must care about it. They don't.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that 90%+ of the driving population has absolutely no idea how much hp their vehicle has, much less its 0-60 time. So long as it's fast enough to merge into traffic on the highway, they just don't care.

A buddy of mine considers himself a car guy. He has a Lexus GS350 and likes to call it his daddy sports car. He has no idea how fast it is. He has a rough idea of its hp (around 300). He doesn't like his wife's RAV4 hybrid, because it's too slow, but is excited at the idea of the GR RAV4 having 330hp.or whatever.

And he's a "car guy". His wife dgaf about how fast or slow a car is.

[JABCAT]

You know things in the automotive world are going to sh!t when Ferrari reveals this monstrocity