Are EVs Tunable?

[pz619]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's because your government is killing you guys with taxes.

Premium is a out $3 here, and charging at the station we would use on our regular road trip looks to be about 0.50 per KW.

Also surprised that the M2 is that bad on gas. My Corvettes have been pulling better than that since my 1992, lol. My 92 gets about 26 highway, and my 2012.gets like 28, but it's a wide body car with super wide tires and such. My narrow body car would do over 30mpg. Admittedly these had less power (430hp - the M2 is like what 550hp now?) and no backseat, but they're also like 20 years old lol.

In fairness, the M2 is tuned and is the 6MT, which isn't as efficient as the DCT. Also this region does have a pretty good amount of hills. So basically floor it going up and ride the brakes going down.

My dad did have a C6 (not sure what year) and that was a great car. Pretty good on fuel and was a lot of fun to drive. I keep checking C8 prices. Probably faux pas to say on a BMW forum, but if the C8 had a manual, the M2 would be instantly replaced. And I love the M2.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The problem is that when you build a 100 mile range car for mom, of your use ever changes you've got a brick of useless.

That's way too hypothetical.
No-one builds 100-mile range BEVs.
Default EV offerings are in the 250-350 mile range these days. And guess what happens if you need more? You recharge your EV on the road and keep on driving! Easy peasy.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

EREVs and PHEVs make far more sense for most people than a BEV. But the (financial) industry wanted BEVs, not PHEVs and EREVs.

EREVs and PHEVs (plug-in and non-plug-in hybrids) make ZERO sense to me, from ownership perspective. Renting or leasing? Maybe.
Hybrids provide maximum possible drivetrain complexity and implied long-term reliability headaches, for some MPG gain. At a premium price.
Hybrids are a silly fleet MPG compliance ploy, not something I would EVER want to own, or recommend anyone else to own.

If you are curious - go lease one, so that you can get rid of it before warranty runs out. Otherwise, financially, it doesn't pay off. At least not for BMWs.

And no, the is no "financial industry" conspiracy to sell BEVs.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

If someone made a large 3 row PHEV or EREV like a Wagoneer or an X7 with 50-60 miles of range for my wife, it would probably save us $150 a month in gas.

Your math is off by a factor of 3x.
Take 7-series for example (ignore the looks), that is offered with regular ICE and hybrid drivetrains.
740i xDrive Sedan $102.3K has combined MPG of 28.0
750e xDrive Sedan $110.0K has combined MPGe of 65.0
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-se...%20/%20highway)

Assuming driving 10K miles / year, you would pay $7.7K upfront to save $680/year or $57/month.

Break-even in 11.3 years, if you are brave enough to own a hybrid past the 4-year warranty.




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[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by pz619

In fairness, the M2 is tuned and is the 6MT, which isn't as efficient as the DCT. Also this region does have a pretty good amount of hills. So basically floor it going up and ride the brakes going down.

My dad did have a C6 (not sure what year) and that was a great car. Pretty good on fuel and was a lot of fun to drive. I keep checking C8 prices. Probably faux pas to say on a BMW forum, but if the C8 had a manual, the M2 would be instantly replaced. And I love the M2.

I could look past how ugly the C8 and the impracticality of it being mid engine had they offered a manual tbh.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That's way too hypothetical.
No-one builds 100-mile range BEVs.
Default EV offerings are in the 250-350 mile range these days. And guess what happens if you need more? You recharge your EV on the road and keep on driving! Easy peasy.



EREVs and PHEVs (plug-in and non-plug-in hybrids) make ZERO sense to me, from ownership perspective. Renting or leasing? Maybe.
Hybrids provide maximum possible drivetrain complexity and implied long-term reliability headaches, for some MPG gain. At a premium price.
Hybrids are a silly fleet MPG compliance ploy, not something I would EVER want to own, or recommend anyone else to own.

If you are curious - go lease one, so that you can get rid of it before warranty runs out. Otherwise, financially, it doesn't pay off. At least not for BMWs.

And no, the is no "financial industry" conspiracy to sell BEVs.



Your math is off by a factor of 3x.
Take 7-series for example (ignore the looks), that is offered with regular ICE and hybrid drivetrains.
740i xDrive Sedan $102.3K has combined MPG of 28.0
750e xDrive Sedan $110.0K has combined MPGe of 65.0
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-se...%20/%20highway)

Assuming driving 10K miles / year, you would pay $7.7K upfront to save $680/year or $57/month.

Break-even in 11.3 years, if you are brave enough to own a hybrid past the 4-year warranty.

Attachment 3820354


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My math isn't wrong. My wife does about 30-40 miles a day in her Expedition. On the weekends we will drive it between 30 and 300 miles depending on what we do. Her gas use would go to near zero, with the only use being when we go to Disney and back. She spends $150-200 a month on gas, even with a battery with 50 miles of range we would all but stop using gas in it. That said, the ROI is likely not there, and so we would likely not make the change. That said, people with X5 45e and 50e seem to be very happy with their cars. A PHEV would need to have basically price parity to an OCE to make sense, and this is where subsidies should have gone if really the goal was to curb gas use. $7500 would cover turning just about every new car into a PHEV, and save a lot of gas. And the smart companies would just buy the ZF8 PHEV transmission with the electric motor built in.

Arguably we could get an Escalade IQ (or an EV Tahoe when that happens) and have enough range to do out Disney trips still, but my wife wouldn't want to run it to under 25% because she's cautious. But it'd be a nightmare to try to to our boat down to the keys with. Or to tow my race car to sebring or Daytona. In a EREV, no problem at all. When the "plenty for the average day" battery is depleted, a generator kicks in to charge the batter for extended range.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Also surprised that the M2 is that bad on gas.

I got 37mpg in my old M2CS DCT on a long highway trip. I was pretty amazed at that.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Davil

I got 37mpg in my old M2CS DCT on a long highway trip. I was pretty amazed at that.

Worth noting, your gallons are about 20% larger than our gallons. US gotta be different... for reasons, I guess.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by pz619

Worth noting, your gallons are about 20% larger than our gallons. US gotta be different... for reasons, I guess.

We use metric gallons.

[jaffles]

Think for me I'm not playing, until ships, planes, trains, then trucks and probably in that order lead the charge in electrification, otherwise its just governance and companies screwing the masses for what money they can.

My semi truck does 2km per lt. A B-double does 1 for 1. How many trucks keep the country rolling?

A cruise boat, uses 150-250 tone of oil a day ferrying people around the ocean just to eat and drink 52 weeks of the year. But then consider how many container ships there are.

An airliner uses from 3200 to 17,400 lt per hour. And the later, a Boeing 737-800 is for 160 to 190 passengers to fly long haul. Google suggest 3.2 billion air movements globally per year for leisure travel.

And while countries are factoring the making of armaments into the Gross National Profit, its never going to end, rather seemly only increase. Plus defense will never give a flying fuck about climate or clean air.

So meh, I'm just going to tune up the dirty ol diesel and not think to much about it. I know the faither sin the family sure aren't. I can see the climate failing around me, and the earth sure is changing. Where I once pitched a tent by the sea is now under water.

EVs I'm starting to think are like speeding fines and taxation. Its easy to tap the masses regularly with some BS that they are doing the wright thing making the world go round.