ICE Porsche 718 Is Coming Back

[Mikesbimmer]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Reading the article above, it looks like the ICE will only return in top 718 models like the GT4 and GT4 RS, Spyder, Spyder RS, etc.

Question a lot of folks have on Porsche forums is if that includes the GTS or not

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Reading the article above, it looks like the ICE will only return in top 718 models like the GT4 and GT4 RS, Spyder, Spyder RS, etc.

I’m ok with that. As long as it has manual. And if they do the Spyder than GTS shoudl have it also.

Either way Porsche has become a tough one for me. I’d spend $250k on a GT3. I’m not spending $350-$500k+. I want a manual and the rest fo the 911 line has become stupid expensive for what you get. And if I have to have an auto there are so many more effective options.

[Alfisti]

A nice clean 997.2 Carrera S manual coupe with 40k miles is about $80K USD, sounds insane but if the new alternative is double that ...... gets u thinking.

[Mikesbimmer]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

A nice clean 997.2 Carrera S manual coupe with 40k miles is about $80K USD, sounds insane but if the new alternative is double that ...... gets u thinking.

I bet the second hand market will increase too

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

A nice clean 997.2 Carrera S manual coupe with 40k miles is about $80K USD, sounds insane but if the new alternative is double that ...... gets u thinking.

It IS insane. The cars are simply not that good, as someone who has spent a lot of time driving my dad's around town and on track.

[No one]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

It IS insane. The cars are simply not that good, as someone who has spent a lot of time driving my dad's around town and on track.

Drivers aren't that good either. Porsche offers an annoying lot of decorations at insulting prices. Charging for headlight washer caps colour is really something! If I were ordering I could skip that "just because". Looking at the options I would guess these cars (I didn't look at top models ) are actually for girls: posh rather than sporty.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

It IS insane. The cars are simply not that good, as someone who has spent a lot of time driving my dad's around town and on track.

I cross shopped against everything from a Mustang (much newer than my 2009 model 997) to a vette (much newer) to a maserati to an aston to a jag and tbh there was nothing really close in terms of value for money other than the Z4M but I needed 2+2.

Domestics are MUCH larger cars, their nose feel heavy and depreciation hurts the long term cost equation. The Maserati and Aston has serious labour/mechanic cost implications and the Jag and maserati 2+2 are monumentally heavy. The E92 M3 was an option but it would have had to double as a DD and it hates short trips.

I think engine matters here too, the CHevy base V8 is just too bottom happy and doesn't sound as NA as it is. The Coyote is the much more engaging engine, performance aside. The 3.8 litre flat 6 is an IMMENSE sportscar engine, from 3500rpm to 7K it makes a glorious noise and a $300 exhaust mod really opened up the sound. It begs to be driven hard and has zero complaints being flogged. What it does despise is being lugged when cold, she will eat herself if you do that.

I could not find a stick so went PDK, if it was a stick it'd be a forever car. But my youngest is now 9 so in a few years will be too big for the back, when we get there I will try the Z4M and FType-R and see where I land.

[dgoldenz]

I've had 8 911's and I'd probably take a 997 GTS over just about anything, manual or PDK. The GTS is a huge difference in feel versus an S/4S, I've had both. The 4S felt more "lazy" while the GTS is always ready to rip. Hard to imagine driving one and thinking "this car just isn't that good"

The market for 997.2 and 991.1 has also noticeably jumped over the last year. I paid $82k for mine in July 2024 and now I can't find a single one listed with similar mileage for under $110k.

[Alfisti]

Problem is the GTS is 50% more than an S, it's not that much better and I am a huge GTS fanboy.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I cross shopped against everything from a Mustang (much newer than my 2009 model 997) to a vette (much newer) to a maserati to an aston to a jag and tbh there was nothing really close in terms of value for money other than the Z4M but I needed 2+2.

Domestics are MUCH larger cars, their nose feel heavy and depreciation hurts the long term cost equation. The Maserati and Aston has serious labour/mechanic cost implications and the Jag and maserati 2+2 are monumentally heavy. The E92 M3 was an option but it would have had to double as a DD and it hates short trips.

I think engine matters here too, the CHevy base V8 is just too bottom happy and doesn't sound as NA as it is. The Coyote is the much more engaging engine, performance aside. The 3.8 litre flat 6 is an IMMENSE sportscar engine, from 3500rpm to 7K it makes a glorious noise and a $300 exhaust mod really opened up the sound. It begs to be driven hard and has zero complaints being flogged. What it does despise is being lugged when cold, she will eat herself if you do that.

I could not find a stick so went PDK, if it was a stick it'd be a forever car. But my youngest is now 9 so in a few years will be too big for the back, when we get there I will try the Z4M and FType-R and see where I land.

This is all personal opinion, which is totally fine.

I found the 911 flat 6 gutless because it had no low end torque. You had to rev it out to get anything out of it, and it doesn't sound very good. The effortless thrust from a domestic V8 on the other hand is great. You don't have to drop gears if you don't want to, it still just goes.

The LS motors IMO don't sound as good as the newer LT, or Hemi and Coyote motors, but they still sound better than the flat 6. I just don't find it's high pitched sound very appealing, I think the Nissan VQ and VR 6s sound better. The Ford 3.0t (Explorer ST) with a good exhaust sounds better too.

I don't like the feeling of "not having power". I had an STI that was a great car, and the engine had a lot of character, but it was SO boost reliant. If you were out of boost, you had nothing, it was so gutless it didn't feel like a performance car at all. The 911 wasn't quite as bad about this, but it's weak down low, and I don't like that.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Problem is the GTS is 50% more than an S, it's not that much better and I am a huge GTS fanboy.

It's worth it if you have the cash for either option. Will also hold its resale value better since there's so few of them for sale and only a two year production run. They seem to be selling at the same price point at 991.1 GTS now...I saw Ryan Friedman has a low mileage 997 GTS manual that they're asking $200k for. That used to be a $100-110k car. Wild.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

This is all personal opinion, which is totally fine.

I found the 911 flat 6 gutless because it had no low end torque. You had to rev it out to get anything out of it, and it doesn't sound very good.

Yeah we are total opposites. I find the sound fantastic, even idling it's all mechanical mashinations and clattering, even turned off the dan thing makes noises cooling down. And I don't want bottom end, i purposely shopped for an engine that was happier being flogged and at 5 grand this engine is begging for more. It still scampers to 60mph in under 5 seconds and I am at very illegal speeds by the time I am ready to select 3rd gear.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

It's worth it if you have the cash for either option. Will also hold its resale value better since there's so few of them for sale and only a two year production run. They seem to be selling at the same price point at 991.1 GTS now...I saw Ryan Friedman has a low mileage 997 GTS manual that they're asking $200k for. That used to be a $100-110k car. Wild.

He gets very nice products but starts asking at a super high level. Hey, more power to him.

If anyone is interested...
Look up Farahs (sp), Smoking Tire, Spyder he had stroked to 4.5L. His buddy said it runs up faster than the 911 ST. A GT4 with the same work was for sale for about 2 days and gone. 553hp I think. Asked $163k, 2500 miles.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

It's worth it if you have the cash for either option. Will also hold its resale value better since there's so few of them for sale and only a two year production run. They seem to be selling at the same price point at 991.1 GTS now...I saw Ryan Friedman has a low mileage 997 GTS manual that they're asking $200k for. That used to be a $100-110k car. Wild.

Problem there is, are we getting toa point where I am watching my miles? My pdk cab S cost me $50K USD at the peak of 2022 madness, I can drive it at that price, at $150K USD i'm second guessing myself.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Problem there is, are we getting toa point where I am watching my miles? My pdk cab S cost me $50K USD at the peak of 2022 madness, I can drive it at that price, at $150K USD i'm second guessing myself.

Ironically, I decided I was going to sell my Panamera and daily my 911 because the value keeps climbing so I could probably add 30k miles and still sell it for what I paid for it. I understand the sentiment though.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah we are total opposites. I find the sound fantastic, even idling it's all mechanical mashinations and clattering, even turned off the dan thing makes noises cooling down. And I don't want bottom end, i purposely shopped for an engine that was happier being flogged and at 5 grand this engine is begging for more. It still scampers to 60mph in under 5 seconds and I am at very illegal speeds by the time I am ready to select 3rd gear.

That's exactly what I don't like about it, it's clackety like an old.dieael at idle and low RPMs, and high pitched and annoying at higher RPMs.

LS .motors love being flogged too, they just make power everywhere, same with Coyotes and Hemis.

Bottom end makes something not suck to drive anywhere other than a nice curvy road without cops. I could see that taking some of the "occasion" out of driving it, but with 2 young kids, if I can't drive it to work and enjoy it here and there... I'm not gonna enjoy it at all.