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      01-07-2009, 08:18 AM   #23
adrean8j
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^^^Thanks atr_hugo, unfortunately we only have the Jan09 COTY version here at our exchange at the moment but I will keep my eyes open for it!
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      01-07-2009, 09:03 AM   #24
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I feel that I know the track pretty well, and I'm positive that although I may not be able to pull mid 8 minute laps (although many of my friends do in evo's sti's) I am positive that if you put a BMW factory driver in the seat it will be well below that time. Maybe they didn't want to advertise too far into the performance aspect because of the m3. For whatever reason, there's no "press" time recorded but again I am positive that it can do better than 8:39.2. Sabine broke 10 in a damn bread van lol. Last time I went I stuck right behind her for the entire lap while she was driving the M5. GRANTED, she was basically drifting every corner for the pleasure of her tourist passengers, but it still felt good. I haven't even recorded a time for myself yet, I keep forgetting while being so excited to give someone else a lap in it.
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      01-07-2009, 10:22 AM   #25
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^^^Well you have one month before you make the move to this great area of the world! Get it poppin'! BTW did you call those Belgians yet?
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      01-07-2009, 10:28 AM   #26
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No I had m16 training today so I'm gonna call tomorrow. I doub't I'll pull a time on a lap this month, my winter tires blow. And its like 9degrees right now lol.
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      01-07-2009, 10:36 AM   #27
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No I had m16 training today so I'm gonna call tomorrow. I doub't I'll pull a time on a lap this month, my winter tires blow. And its like 9degrees right now lol.
yeah that and the ring looks this right now

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      01-07-2009, 11:26 AM   #28
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LOL good point, that would be a long 12 miles.
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      01-07-2009, 11:26 AM   #29
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^^^Perfect for drifting all of those corners!
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      01-07-2009, 11:28 AM   #30
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PGR style
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      01-07-2009, 11:36 AM   #31
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We will even give you 'kudos' points! :wink:
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      01-07-2009, 08:00 PM   #32
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Put studs in the run flats, they suck anyway.
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      01-07-2009, 08:23 PM   #33
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We all know that a stock 135 is right there with any stock e46 m3, all the tests show it. This list has too many variables to compare the cars in it.
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      01-08-2009, 09:04 AM   #34
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I think the understeer crybabys are full of it because there are a LOT of other current "WAHHH UNDERSTEER" BMW's above the 135 with poorer power to weight ratios than the 135.

This time was set by a Journalist, doing a Porche piece, most certainly on an open track day with traffic. The 130 is 5 seconds faster and it too "understeers" And the 130 (Driven by Road&Track) was the Hatchback which did 1:31.9 on the Top Gear track. Which is 3 seconds faster then the R32 Mk IV.

I trust a Lotus built, closed test, one driver (sorta) track time over the massive amount of varriables involved in that Nurburgring list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_gea...he_Power_Board
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      01-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #35
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The 335i has a wider track (2.5" wider if I recall) which will give it better handling characteristics and the longer wheelbase will definitely help with high speed stability. The ring is definitely a high speed track. Our front track is 5" wider right now with the wide body and trust me, that alone made a huge improvement in handling.
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      01-08-2009, 04:26 PM   #36
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I can believe that Fred as far as the 335i is concerned but the gap between the 135i and some of the other cars on there is puzzling. I remember reading a 135i article recently (cannot remember where) that said its high-speed stability was better than most cars in its class (it might have been on Edmunds..but not sure)....
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      01-08-2009, 06:11 PM   #37
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Yeah well keep in mind, it's the ring. It's a long track. 5-10 seconds on a 12 mile long track is a blink of an eye. All it takes is a few little mistakes in driving the whole 8 minutes of driving to lose that time. A short track, hell 5-10 is a lifetime. With a 12 mile track, there's so many variables that it's not a real feasible testbed of how fast the car is. Hell, it'll be difficult for the same driver to do the track identically each and every time without a mistake because it is so LONG and has so many turns.

Take for example take 2 drivers that do a 1 minute track 1 sec apart. 8 minutes is 8 seconds.
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      01-08-2009, 07:09 PM   #38
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^^^ But on the flip side of your argument, wouldn't the mistakes cancel each other out? I think the reason why the Ring is the benchmark of car performance is because it eliminate the human error part in the equation. because every driver is bound to make some mistakes here and there, and there's rarely a Perfect lap. Of coz, you've to have equally competent drivers, not some noob (like me) vs some seasoned pro.

thoughts?
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      01-08-2009, 08:11 PM   #39
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Yeah well keep in mind, it's the ring. It's a long track. 5-10 seconds on a 12 mile long track is a blink of an eye. All it takes is a few little mistakes in driving the whole 8 minutes of driving to lose that time. A short track, hell 5-10 is a lifetime. With a 12 mile track, there's so many variables that it's not a real feasible testbed of how fast the car is. Hell, it'll be difficult for the same driver to do the track identically each and every time without a mistake because it is so LONG and has so many turns.

Take for example take 2 drivers that do a 1 minute track 1 sec apart. 8 minutes is 8 seconds.
Yes I understand that...I was more looking for an semi-official time from a real controlled environment.
Something like using Top Gears "Stig" or an official released time from BMW AG.....
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      01-08-2009, 09:57 PM   #40
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The Ring is considered a benchmark for car performance mainly due to it's complexity. It has a lot of different types of turns, lots of elevation changes etc. Perfect for a car manufacturer to test a car, they have everything all in 1 track. You want high speed runs, Rings got it. Uphill climbs, got it. Downhill etc... You get the idea. This makes it ideal for European manufacturers especially since it's in their backyard. Now, recently US and Japanese car makers have started going to the Ring. Why? Because their target competition cars are tested on it and they want to see how they hold up.

As for mistakes canceling each other out, most likely not. A highly skilled driver tends to not make as many mistakes if any versus another less skilled driver. With such a long track, the mistakes would compound and make the difference between drivers even more evident.

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^^^ But on the flip side of your argument, wouldn't the mistakes cancel each other out? I think the reason why the Ring is the benchmark of car performance is because it eliminate the human error part in the equation. because every driver is bound to make some mistakes here and there, and there's rarely a Perfect lap. Of coz, you've to have equally competent drivers, not some noob (like me) vs some seasoned pro.

thoughts?
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      01-08-2009, 09:58 PM   #41
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Yeah I am curious what the Stig would do with the car

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Yes I understand that...I was more looking for an semi-official time from a real controlled environment.
Something like using Top Gears "Stig" or an official released time from BMW AG.....
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      01-08-2009, 10:07 PM   #42
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@ Guildenstern:

Just FYI, the track was closed. VW-Motorsport division was testing their race Scirocco prior to the 24 hr race at the Ring and let the journalist take the two cars out.

I can see your point with regards to the variables, but at least in this case traffic was not one.
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      01-08-2009, 10:15 PM   #43
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@Dodo: Yeah traffic was not an issue at all...One thing they did NOT mention in the article is whether or not they were running with the stock runflats or other tires. I think that would have made a small difference as well.

@Evolution Racewerks: I am curious why they have not featured it yet on Top Gear, given JC's article saying that the 135i is the BEST bimmer on the market right now. I am guessing it would be in the 1:31.7 time-frame....
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      01-09-2009, 09:30 AM   #44
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Quote:
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@ Guildenstern:

Just FYI, the track was closed. VW-Motorsport division was testing their race Scirocco prior to the 24 hr race at the Ring and let the journalist take the two cars out.

I can see your point with regards to the variables, but at least in this case traffic was not one.
Thanks. That's at least one variable taken care of. I still don't trust that time. It's implausable that the Hatchback 130 did better.

I thought the Coupe was going to be tested in the last series of top gear but I guess it didn't. I really do want to see it's time on the power board.
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