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      02-23-2009, 06:37 PM   #1
jmcgraw013
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Clay bar - oh the horror!

Novice detailer alert! Don't under any circumstances attempt to use a Clay Bar on your new car! Much to my horror - I started out fine this past Saturday attempting to prep my new 1er before polishing with Menz 85 and my new PC 7424 - I washed her with Palmolive (perfume and dye free), then used Turtle Wax's Ice liquid clay bar with the supplied foam sponge - I should have stopped there! But then following the directions on the box, I proceeded to use their spray detailer and clay bar. After I was done with my whole car - I pulled her back out of the garage and about fell to my knees in tears - it looked like I had rubbed sand paper all over the car!!! I don't know how it happened - it was a new piece of clay and I didn't drop it on the ground. Maybe some grit got in the clay from my microfiber - I don't know. My God! I was so pissed at myself! How could I have ruined my new finish like that! After then attempting to buff out some of the scratches to no avail (the 85 was not going to cut them and that's all I had) - I even went by hand with some Scratch X and then tried the 3M scratch remover = no dice.

The good news - I called a local detailer - Detail Authority in Herndon - (Randy Coffey, great guy - www.waxmycar.com) - he took my car this morning and by 3 p.m. had her restored! The paint is now like glass and he miraculously got out 95% of the scratches. What's left is very microscopic - I can only see them from a few inches away. Chalk them up to my stupidity - they'll be my scarlet letter of shame I'll wear from now on. I should have never clayed my new car - period! It didn't need it.

Just sharing my saga so you newbies out there like me will think twice before claying your car - fair warning~!
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      02-23-2009, 06:53 PM   #2
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2009 135i  [8.26]
Problem number 1 = Palmolive
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      02-23-2009, 07:02 PM   #3
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Why would stripping the wax from the paint with the Palmolive be an issue? Many people use this method.

BOT: I am not so sure about that liquid clay bar. Maybe you should just stick to real clay next time.
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      02-23-2009, 07:07 PM   #4
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I've never had that problem with clay... sounds like your clay was defective, the lube was defective (or not enough used), or too much pressure was applied on the clay without turning the clay or reworking it to get rid of the bits and pieces that it picks up.

EDIT: D'oh! Madman, yeah, no clue why liquid clay bar would do that. And yeah, palmolive should be fine to strip wax, etc. It's just recommended to not use it all the time for that very reason.
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      02-23-2009, 08:40 PM   #5
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Wow man, I'm sorry to hear about that. What'd it run you to fix the paint if you don't mind my asking?
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      02-23-2009, 08:45 PM   #6
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Don't people usually clay before waxing? To take the contaminents out and then wax? Well anywho, glad they were able to get you fixed up.
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      02-23-2009, 08:47 PM   #7
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Too bad! I have use a Meguires clay bar and a Griot's clay bar and had awesome results. Very easy to use and they both left the paint as smooth as glass. I was very hesitant the first time used clay but I was very happy to find it so simple yet effective. Sounds like we should stay away from that Turtle wax crap! Glad to hear you got most of the scratches out.
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      02-23-2009, 08:53 PM   #8
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Wait how old was the car? Didn't you just pick it up not to long ago? I talked to BMW about this back in October when I was about to wax my car. They recommend not doing anything more than washing for the first 4-5 months after build. Apparently the paint needs that time to fully set.
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      02-23-2009, 09:04 PM   #9
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I use that liquid ice clay, seems fine, but then its liquid so no lube issues... guessing the claybar wasnt good.
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      02-23-2009, 10:12 PM   #10
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So let me get this straight, you used the liquid claybar and THEN you used a traditional claybar w/ lube?
The wash (using two bucket method) should be followed by drying and then use of a traditional claybar.
There are two key things about using a claybar:
1. Use a lot of lube! (keep your replies to this mature, boys.)
2. Don't use the same section of the claybar for the entire car. Think about it, if you use that same portion of the claybar that just picked up contaminants, you're just scratching the paint with the tiny particles you have just removed from your vehicle.

I'm no expert, but I have read quite a bit of the detailing threads (Thanks, all you Professionals), and that's my 2 cents.
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      02-23-2009, 10:13 PM   #11
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Claybar is risky if you are unexperienced or don't take your time. It's not worth the risk until you've had the car for a while and some contaminants have built up. IMHO.
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      02-23-2009, 11:03 PM   #12
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I don't think it's necessary to clay if ur car is new
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      02-23-2009, 11:33 PM   #13
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I am ordering Jet Black and understand what it takes to maintain the finish of a black car, having had several. I never heard of 'liquid clay', sounds like a polish to me. Clay is proven and effective to remove surface contaminants from automobile finish. The drill is....Harsh liquid soap to prep the finish (Dawn dishwash etc.), clay until smooth to touch (lubricate!), polish (I use Klasse AOI X 2), protectant (thin Klasse SGX2!) and carnuba on top if you are serious about deep shine. If you do it properly you can maintain the shine for extended periods with just a spritz of quick detail and an occasional carnuba topper. Once washing fails to remove the contaminants leaving a 'bumpy' surface you are ready to start the process over.
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      02-24-2009, 12:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekid2002 View Post
Claybar is risky if you are unexperienced or don't take your time. It's not worth the risk until you've had the car for a while and some contaminants have built up. IMHO.

+1
You're using a harsh abrasive if you use a clay bar. It's harsh on the paint and thus it has the capability to remove the contaminants. If your car isn't that old and you keep it fairly clean, I don't think there will be much for the clay bar to remove.

I tend to stay away from using a clay bar unless I feel I really need to use it, maybe once every 1 or 2 years. A friend of mine used Mother's clay bar on his dark blue A4 quite often and over time it made his paint look more like purple.
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      02-24-2009, 01:23 AM   #15
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Damn, I think you might want to take it to a professional detailer if you are unable to do it...

Sorry to hear about this
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      02-24-2009, 06:28 AM   #16
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I think where I went wrong was using the clay bar on the new paint. I did knead the clay bar a lot - but it did get dirty - so mabe I should have had more than the single small piece that came in the kit. I used a lot of lube, so I don't think that was the problem. It could be that the Ice clay is more abrasive than other more pro brands. Most likely however is "operator error" I'd never clayed a car before so I blame myself for screwing it up. At a minimum, I should have done just a small area first and checked it before I proceeded to do the whole car. Thus I was an idiot.

Fortunately, it only cost me $147 for a full exterior detail that included polishing, waxing and sealant (small car rate and convertible - no work on the top). I also gave him a $50 tip for doing an awesome job saving my finish. I'm just glad I don't have to take it in to a body shop.
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      02-24-2009, 09:50 AM   #17
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Clay bars can and will scratch the paint if not used... perfectly. If your using a clay bar and you feel it stick to the paint....guess what, you probably just induced some micro mariring.

I used a clay bar when my car was brand new, I got Zero dirt on the clay bar, and no rail dust. I really would not recommend the clay on a new finish, just a good polish folllowed by a wax/sealant of your choice.
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      02-24-2009, 09:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL135I View Post
I used a clay bar when my car was brand new, I got Zero dirt on the clay bar, and no rail dust. I really would not recommend the clay on a new finish, just a good polish folllowed by a wax/sealant of your choice.
+1, everywhere I read said to clay the car before inital prep, but nothing really even came off onto the clay bar.
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      02-24-2009, 10:05 AM   #19
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Glad I saw this thread before my car is delivered!

Is polish even needed on a brand new car?

Don't they do that at the end of production, at the prep center and / or at the dealer?

Couldn't you just wash with dawn and then wax or seal it?
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      02-24-2009, 10:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singular View Post
Glad I saw this thread before my car is delivered!

Is polish even needed on a brand new car?

Don't they do that at the end of production, at the prep center and / or at the dealer?

Couldn't you just wash with dawn and then wax or seal it?
If you don't have the dealer prep your car, the finish will be swirl city. When they transport the car it is covered with protective tape, etc. All of this will micro mar the finish.

Dealers will usually glaze the finish upon arrival, this will hide many of the defects. Depending on the color, you may not need to polish. My white X5 I did not polish, just sealed. However, its white, and I'm not crazy in love with my X5 as I am with my 1
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      02-24-2009, 07:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singular View Post
Glad I saw this thread before my car is delivered!

Is polish even needed on a brand new car?

Don't they do that at the end of production, at the prep center and / or at the dealer?

Couldn't you just wash with dawn and then wax or seal it?

I've been told that if your car has just been built, meaning the paint is only a few weeks or couple of months fresh, then you shouldn't polish or wax your car because the paint still needs to naturally cure.

As far as I know, polish restores the essential oils/compounds that makes paint look deep/wet (the oils/compounds fill the swirl marks and makes them 'invisible' for a while). Waxing after a good polish seals the restored oils to further enhance and maintain the paint's finish.

If you're going to use dawn to prep a car for detail then you should polish before waxing. Some people like to use a clay bar or paint cleaner before polish and wax, but I only recommend doing that if you feel your paint has a lot of contaminants - those are harsh chemicals and do more harm than good on uncontaminated paint.

A good rule of thumb if you're wondering if you need to re-polish and wax is to slide your finger across a section of the paint. If it feels slick and your finger just glides along it, then you don't need to re-polish and wax. If your finger doesn't slide with ease then you need to detail your paint.
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      02-25-2009, 10:05 PM   #22
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I also get calls all the time from enthusiasts that try claying their vehicles and end up in the same position as you. I end up going out and repairing the paint that has been damaged. Its an art, thats why its sometimes best to have the PRO's do the job. I certainly would not perform heart surgery on myself, or perform a root canal on one of my teeth.

At Innovative Detailing we would go out to the customer, correct the paint and then Educate the client so that they can maintain the finish using the proper techniques. This way you will feel comfortable and confident that scratching your car in the future will be avoided when maintaining it or detailing it.


Here at Innovative Detailing we answer this common question all the time...


Q. My car is brand new, should I really have it detailed?

A: Absolutely, you just made a large investment and now its time to ensure that your vehicle is protected. Car dealers rarely complete full details on new cars. During transit these vehicles collect debris and contaminants, then they sit sometimes on the lot sometimes for months. So when you pull off the lot there are a ton of contaminants still bonded on the paints surface, along with water spots which are sometimes visible. Having you car detailed at this point will ensure that your vehicle looks better than the day you bought it and lead you in the right direction toward lasting protection and beauty.


Q. When, why and how would I perform a surface evaluation?

A. Surface evaluations should be done after you have washed and dried your car. The purpose of a surface evaluation is so you know the precise condition of the painted surface and prepare to take the necessary steps to correct any paint flaws you may detect. The first step in conducting a surface evaluation is wash and dry the vehicle, then evaluate the condition of the paint paying particular attention to the brightness and brilliance of the color, while searching for swirl marks, surface scratches, fading, oxidation, overspray and other paint blemishes.

Q. What does a clay bar do?

A: Claying is a process that is designed to remove environmental contaminants in your Clearcoat while leaving a clean smooth glass like finish ready for Wax or Sealant. The clay we are talking about Better known as Clay Magic is similar to the toy "Play-doh" that children enjoy although a special kind is required for car detailing. It performs it's function by deep cleaning the contaminants from the surface of the paint. Giving the car a smooth showroom surface like the day one buys his car.


Q. What are the distinctions between polishes and waxes?

A: There is a lot of confusion about the difference between a polish and a wax. Many manufacturers are marketing waxes as polishes. You have to read the labels closely to really understand what the product does. Professionals know there is a difference between the two. A pure polish is more like a paint conditioner that restores valuable oils to the paint, eliminates fine scratches and creates incredible high gloss that would not be possible with wax. An application of a pure polish should be followed by waxing to protect the shine and extend its life. If you own a dark car, you'll see a dramatic difference, if you apply polish before you wax. If you want a great finish and to hide the scratches, it is best to use quality cleaners, pure polishes and waxes that restore the surface properly.

Hope this helps you!

Dave @ Innovative Detailing
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"DETAILING CARS IS A FORM OF ART. MOST APPRECIATE IT, BUT FEW POSSESS THE REQUIRED SKILL AND EVEN FEWER UNDERSTAND IT"

Last edited by Innovative Detailing; 02-25-2009 at 10:24 PM..
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