The holy grail of gearbox oil!

[Thunderguts]

I've never tried Motul MTF. Most Motul oils are comparable to Redline, if not slightly better. That doesn't mean they would work well with our particular transmission, but I'd love to hear anyone who's had experience with it. I loved Motul 300V, but it was just too damned expensive for a car that burned oil and not good for long term use.

Don't know anything about Millers.

I've tried a few others over the years, Pennzoil Synchromesh and Royal Purple Synchromax come to mind. I never tried them in the Getrag, but I hated Royal Purple in my Tremec and swapped it out after only a few days. Every transmission is different though.

[OkieSnuffBox]

https://performanceracingoils.com/

[Thunderguts]

This may be an incorrect perception, but I stay away from dedicated racing oils (MTF specifically). I'm thinking they're designed for crashboxes which have totally different needs than a synchronized street car transmission. Synchros need friction to grab gears whereas straight-cut gears are built to just slam together.

Same thing with the 300V. It's an unbelievably good motor oil for racing, but just not designed for long-term street use.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

This may be an incorrect perception, but I stay away from dedicated racing oils (MTF specifically). I'm thinking they're designed for crashboxes which have totally different needs than a synchronized street car transmission. Synchros need friction to grab gears whereas straight-cut gears are built to just slam together.

Same thing with the 300V. It's an unbelievably good motor oil for racing, but just not designed for long-term street use.

They have a motorsports line and a street line. Literally the tabs across the top.

I don't personally don't care what you use, but I'll say I know plenty of guys running "race" oil in their dual-duty cars, with analysis from Blackstone showing that even running exclusively E85 there are plenty of additives and protection for 7-8k oil changes.

But if you're car is needs oil when it needs gas, it'd be getting Castrol.

[edycol]

Fluids like Redline that have substantial amount of Ester are prone to oxidation. It is not how much additives is left but whether TAN overshot TBN value. At that point additives cannot control oxidation anymore.
Redline is really not racing fluid. They have specific racing line. It is more track/street fluid.
But driveline fluids have a lot of good manufacturers. People often neglect, but biggest driveline fluid blender in the US is Valvoline and they make exceptional fluids.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Well, honestly, have switched back to factory MTF-LT-3. Will see how it is this winter.

How was it?

I've been doing too much reading lately. Among Red Line, I can't decide between D4 and MT-LV. I think D6 will be too thin and MTL too thick. Want the car driveable all year. Have MTF-LT-2 in right now and not thrilled by cold shifting. I can live with it but would like to improve it if possible (without the expense of having something replacing it suck when warm).

Does anyone know about the Pentosin fluids, i.e. FFL3? I think that's the same as the MTF-LT-5? And that the MTF-LT-5 and MTF-LT-2 before it are both thicker than the MTF-LT-3?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

How was it?

I've been doing too much reading lately. Among Red Line, I can't decide between D4 and MT-LV. I think D6 will be too thin and MTL too thick. Want the car driveable all year. Have MTF-LT-2 in right now and not thrilled by cold shifting. I can live with it but would like to improve it if possible (without the expense of having something replacing it suck when warm).

Does anyone know about the Pentosin fluids, i.e. FFL3? I think that's the same as the MTF-LT-5? And that the MTF-LT-5 and MTF-LT-2 before it are both thicker than the MTF-LT-3?

D4 is excellent fluid. I have it in my E90 328. Good on track, good as daily in winter.

[cjb762]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

I've never tried Motul MTF. Most Motul oils are comparable to Redline, if not slightly better. That doesn't mean they would work well with our particular transmission, but I'd love to hear anyone who's had experience with it.

I just replaced my Redline MT-LV with Motul DCTF. My initial impression is that the shifts feel slightly slicker than the Redline. What you said appears to be correct - it is at least as good an upgrade as Redline, if not slightly better.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

How was it?

I've been doing too much reading lately. Among Red Line, I can't decide between D4 and MT-LV. I think D6 will be too thin and MTL too thick. Want the car driveable all year. Have MTF-LT-2 in right now and not thrilled by cold shifting. I can live with it but would like to improve it if possible (without the expense of having something replacing it suck when warm).

Does anyone know about the Pentosin fluids, i.e. FFL3? I think that's the same as the MTF-LT-5? And that the MTF-LT-5 and MTF-LT-2 before it are both thicker than the MTF-LT-3?

Agree MTL is too thick but D4 too thin and prefer thick fluids.

Would be open to trying MTLV or motul MTL next pending feedback here.

[tracer bullet]

I've got some D4 on my workbench but haven't put it in yet. Since it's summer my shifting is great, and of course life's busy. Hopefully get the D4 in not just before winter, but for little bit of time while the weather is also warm, to get a decent back to back comparison. I'll report back but it'll probably be a while.

[spidertri]

Just did a second drain and fill with MT-LV after putting 15k miles on the first fill and a bunch of track days. The original fluid came out dark but the viscosity looked to be very similar to the new fluid I put in.

Good stuff, I haven't had any issues on the street or track with it and I plan to keep running it.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Just did a second drain and fill with MT-LV after putting 15k miles on the first fill and a bunch of track days. The original fluid came out dark but the viscosity looked to be very similar to the new fluid I put in.

Good stuff, I haven't had any issues on the street or track with it and I plan to keep running it.

Sorry if I missed it were you able to roeviously compare to full MTL?

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Agree MTL is too thick but D4 too thin and prefer thick fluids.

Would be open to trying MTLV or motul MTL next pending feedback here.

D4 is between MTL and MT-LV in terms of viscosity and is the Redline recommended fluid for the 128i. I've been runing MTL for years but I have D4 on order for my next change.

MTL: 75W80, VI 201, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 50.8, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4

D4: 70W80, VI 188, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 35.4, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 7.5

MT-LV: 70W/75W, VI 175, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 30.6, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 6.5

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

D4 is between MTL and MT-LV in terms of viscosity and is the Redline recommended fluid for the 128i. I've been runing MTL for years but I have D4 on order for my next change.

MTL: 75W80, VI 201, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 50.8, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4

D4: 70W80, VI 188, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 35.4, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 7.5

MT-LV: 70W/75W, VI 175, Vis @ 40°C, cSt 30.6, Vis @ 100°C, cSt 6.5

Probably stick with my MTL then. D4 felt like it broke down too quickly in our heat here.

[spidertri]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Sorry if I missed it were you able to roeviously compare to full MTL?

Should preface that I can only speak to the 128i getrag transmission, not sure if this applies to the 135's ZF.

The car had MTL in it when I bought it, I just remember that shifts were very stiff when daily driving but that it felt smoother when I had it on track.

I changed to MT-LV and shifts are more consistently smooth. I was at CMP the other day in 95F ambient and had no issues with shifting.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

D4 is between MTL and MT-LV in terms of viscosity...

Indeed. Also at -40 it's slightly thinner (52) than MT-LV (60) and much thinner than MTL (120). That's why I chose it for year-round in MN.

I really need to get it (D4) off the work bench and into the car.

[Olgeezer1]

I've tried BMW's O.E. fluid, D4 and currently MTL. I'm keeping this car for the long run so went with the recommendation of BMWCCA's tech. editor, Mike Miller. Car is driven summer only so freezing temps. not an issue. His recommendation for best syncro protection/ long life, based on input from several transmission rebuilders, was MTL. Honestly, just based on feel I don't notice a great deal of difference between them.

[jdt10768]

Good info here, thanks

I'm about to do trans and diff fluids, and I don't really want to waste $ or oil/fluids
What is the exact volume spec'd for Trans and Diff in a 128i (2013 msport)?

I see people buying a gallon of trans fluid, and 2 qts diff fluid - but then they say "hey I only really needed 3 qts for Trans and 1 qt for Diff". but . . . i spilled some and . . .

anyone know the actual volumes needed?

[Thunderguts]

I've never used more than two quarts for the transmission, even when perfectly leveled. The ZF in the 135i might take a little more. The rear diff takes a little more than a quart. I only bought 1 quart of BMW diff fluid, so I'm kinda hoping I can fudge it a little.

[jdt10768]

I had my buddy change the fluids last week since they have a lift. He showed me the old/orig-from-factory diff fluid afterward, and it was very clean. Surprisingly clean at 60k miles. I didn't see the old trans fluid, but went with the MT-LV oil after reading this thread. Feels good, but truthfully I don't note much of a big change. Peace of mind mainly, since I plan to keep this car for the long run

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by jdt10768

Feels good, but truthfully I don't note much of a big change.

My guess is that the differences would stick out more in the winter, especially for those of us in the northern states / Canada. Maybe the opposite i.e. a track day in the summer. For normal driving in normal temps they're probably all pretty good and I wouldn't think feel much different.

[Papa Popov]

Originally Posted by jdt10768

I had my buddy change the fluids last week since they have a lift. He showed me the old/orig-from-factory diff fluid afterward, and it was very clean. Surprisingly clean at 60k miles. I didn't see the old trans fluid, but went with the MT-LV oil after reading this thread. Feels good, but truthfully I don't note much of a big change. Peace of mind mainly, since I plan to keep this car for the long run

Went from stock to MT-LV this time last year and it made a slight difference in the 1 -> 2 shift for the first couple days. Either the magic wore off of I got used to it. Leaning towards the latter. Was hoping it'd be night and day like the CDV delete but no dice.

Planning on rebuilding my shifter to hopefully make my 1 -> 2 better since its crunchier than a bag of chips rn. Rebuild is schedule for whenever AKG actually makes a batch of DSSRs but unfortunately the current timeline for that is sometime between now and the heat death of the universe. Anyone wanna heckle them into a production run with me?