Header Installation Help!!

[Rmtt]

So I started my header install this morning. The exhaust manifold studs were in such bad shape, I've had to fight with every copper nut I have pulled off.

Now I managed to pull a stud out. Anyone that's done this recently have the OEM part numbers for the manifold studs?

I figure it probably best to replace them all instead of trying to put new nuts on such corroded threads and fighting it. It looks to be a 5mm size on the end for installing them.

Also by any chance, anyone got any advice on the two bottom nuts of the stock manifold closest to the firewall? You can hardly get your hands back there, and from the bottom it also looks sketchy like I may have to try a few flexible adapters in-line with extensions to reach them. Every other nut I've been able to get from the top.

This has been one of the bigger PITA removals I've been through, and I've done tons of headers in the past on various cars.

Thanks!

[rowsdower]

Yes the header job sucks, man. You just need to be creative with extensions and twisting your arm in ways your previously didn't think possible.

I don't have a part number for the studs but I did buy a pack of them off FCP Euro for ~$20 when I did this job. They are not 5mm they are an external torx (E something). I would buy the right socket to install them rather than risk stripping one of them off in the head. Try RealOEM for the part number.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by rowsdower

Yes the header job sucks, man. You just need to be creative with extensions and twisting your arm in ways your previously didn't think possible.

I don't have a part number for the studs but I did buy a pack of them off FCP Euro for ~$20 when I did this job. They are not 5mm they are an external torx (E something). I would buy the right socket to install them rather than risk stripping one of them off in the head. Try RealOEM for the part number.

Thanks. I got the last two nuts out from the bottom with a few swivel extensions. I think going back on will be easier since the "cats" won't be all in the way. I had only one stud come out, debating on trying to reuse it and cleaning up the other ones. But I don't want any leaks, so I'm hesitant.

Went to in unbolt the exhaust to the secondary's, and it's frozen solid. I may be taking a saws-all to those bolts in the morning since I have new ones with gaskets to go back in.

I sprayed them with penetrating oil a few minutes ago, and figured I would let it soak over night.

Once they come out, I will see how hard it looks to replace the studs given the room I have. Then the new headers go in, and I can move on to the Magnaflow cat-back next!

[crowtrobot]

11127593376 is the part number for the studs.

My header->straight pipe bolts were basically fused to the old headers, definitely had to take the saws-all to them.

Good luck!

[rowsdower]

Mine were fused as well. Angle grinder was my plan before I threw in the towel and brought it to a shop.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by crowtrobot

11127593376 is the part number for the studs.

My header->straight pipe bolts were basically fuparr # sed to the old headers, definitely had to take the saws-all to them.

Good luck!

Thanks. I finally found it. I kept finding an obsolete part# that was superseded by the number you listed.

What sucked was that half the sites show it as not fitting my car while others do. I ordered a set of them. They were M7X39.

I hope they aren't to much if a pain to install. But the studs that are on the car surprised me with the shape they were in!

[Rmtt]

So first....Happy Father's Day to everyone.

I got the headers out this morning. On the clamps to the mid-pipes I didn't have to cut. I actually snapped off all 4 bolts with a 1/2" drive ratchet. I guess it saved me from getting the saws-all out.

What are you guys opinion on re-using my some of my stock manifold studs? I had one come out yesterday, and couldn't get the nut off. I ordered 16 new ones, but they won't be here until Tuesday.

As Rowsdower mentioned, these things strip easy. I have an e-torx 6 n52k which is what these are, so I figured I would pull them ahead of time.

Well just pulling 5 of them have me two stripped studs on the ends, and on one the end broke completely off. So I took some of the old copper nuts and "double-butted" the stud, then backed them out of the head that way.

I'm scared to touch anymore of them.

On a side note since I can't begin install of my headers yet, I figured I could go ahead and cut my Magnaflow cat-back in tomorrow since I took the week off to do this and some other stuff.

[JimD]

Your comment about snapping off the bolts reminded me of my late father. This is back in the days of gas with lead when exhaust systems corroded much more than today. But my father would never try and loosen bolts in the exhaust system. He just tightened them until they broke.

I am still learning BMW motors but if these are steel studs into an aluminum block, there is serious risk of stripping threads in the block. I wouldn't pull more than you have to. I ruined a VW head pulling studs out (a long time ago).

[desertman123]

Buy a whole new set of studs. This job is not worth cutting corners to save time/money, it's such a pain in the ass. Removing the old headers isn't the issue, it's installing the new ones.

I have a FL car so nothing was seized (thankfully - not trying to brag either, there is nothing braggable about this job) but I had a handful of studs on deck. All brand new copper nuts too, for both the manifold/block and manifold/exhaust. All new Mahle gaskets too.

You have your swiveling 11mm wrench right? Don't even think about it, just buy it. Those headers will not go on without it. Spray PB blaster on everything multiple times until the new studs/nuts come in.

The new headers are installed simultaneously, so grab a friend to help you feed one pipe from the bottom while someone else feeds the other from the top.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=18_0587

P/Ns

Pictured is the type of wrench you must use. Size is 11mm. Some of the nuts are in such awkward positions. I remember someone on the forums mentioning a nut that you must reach from the bottom, it's in between like 2-3 curved pipes and even my long lankey arms had issues reaching it.

I didn't need it for removal, so I was confused as to why I bought it. But it was pivotal for the install.

(psst also nows the time to grab some exhaust header primer+ceramic coat from O'Reilly's, it's super easy to do)

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Buy a whole new set of studs. This job is not worth cutting corners to save time/money, it's such a pain in the ass. Removing the old headers isn't the issue, it's installing the new ones.

I have a FL car so nothing was seized (thankfully - not trying to brag either, there is nothing braggable about this job) but I had a handful of studs on deck. All brand new copper nuts too, for both the manifold/block and manifold/exhaust. All new Mahle gaskets too.

You have your swiveling 11mm wrench right? Don't even think about it, just buy it. Those headers will not go on without it. Spray PB blaster on everything multiple times until the new studs/nuts come in.

The new headers are installed simultaneously, so grab a friend to help you feed one pipe from the bottom while someone else feeds the other from the top.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=18_0587

P/Ns

Pictured is the type of wrench you must use. Size is 11mm. Some of the nuts are in such awkward positions. I remember someone on the forums mentioning a nut that you must reach from the bottom, it's in between like 2-3 curved pipes and even my long lankey arms had issues reaching it.

I didn't need it for removal, so I was confused as to why I bought it. But it was pivotal for the install.

(psst also nows the time to grab some exhaust header primer+ceramic coat from O'Reilly's, it's super easy to do)

Thanks. I actually was able to change all of the head studs. I wish I had seen this earlier.

I installed the front set first loosely, then could not get the back to fit. Then I removed the front, and loosely installed the rear. Actually had the fronts in place as well, but once you start tightening down the back, you can't get the front to fit unless there is play in the back set.

So back to square one. Finally got both mounted with a few nuts holding everything in place.. Then spent the rest of the afternoon tightening them in a criss-cross pattern. As these things cinch up, nuts get loose and you start the process all over again. Took me the rest of the evening to get everything tightened down. Between working from the top, then the bottom, I was up and down a 100 times it seemed since I did this on Jack stands.

I did have a set of the wrenches, I've got a nice collection of tools from years of wrenching as a hobby.

But holy crap, I thought I didn't have much room with the stock manifolds to get to the hardware. The installed headers are a 100X worse! Almost every nut is blocked by something.

But the headers came with all new gaskets, nuts, and bolts.

I dread going back in a few weeks to re-tighten everything after it heat cycles a few times.

I have a new Magnaflow setup to do today. I'm contemplating pulling the entire exhaust out as you have to cut the pipes 7" back from the secondary cats.....I'm assuming that's measuring 7" back from the welds on the cats as it doesn't specify exactly which point to measure from. But the new system comes with its own resonator, and then the muffler. Figured it would be easier to do it with it out of the car.

I already have my Stage 2 tune from Bob waiting to load once I'm done.

I will say this, I hope there are some noticble gains from doing all of this work. I've done tons of header installs, and this ranks right up there with some of the most aggravating ones.

I put long tubes on my C6 in less than 4 hours taking my time, and those things gave me almost 30hp/30tq at peak with some areas slightly higher under the curve.

But I'm happy I'm past the hard part!

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by JimD

Your comment about snapping off the bolts reminded me of my late father. This is back in the days of gas with lead when exhaust systems corroded much more than today. But my father would never try and loosen bolts in the exhaust system. He just tightened them until they broke.

I am still learning BMW motors but if these are steel studs into an aluminum block, there is serious risk of stripping threads in the block. I wouldn't pull more than you have to. I ruined a VW head pulling studs out (a long time ago).

Once I broke the first one.....ione.....I new which route I was taking. I snapped the remaining 3 in short order!

[Rmtt]

So I finished the exhaust. It started raining, and my wife wants me to help her with a few things......so tomorrow I will download my tune, and fire her up and see how she sounds.

Exhaust went in fairly easy, and the tips are huge!!

[Rmtt]

So loaded my tune today, and started her up for the first time. I've got to say it sounds amazing! Car sounds slightly quieter than before with just the muffler delete and no headers.

Very deepened tone, and you barely hear but just a hint of it below 3K RPM. After that, it gets going very nicely and keeps that deep sound with a lot more hint of bass to it. Sounds like a proper European sports car now and I can't even detect a hint of rasp.

Took it out for a small ride, and it felt great. Got back home and washed it, then the wife and I took it for a long road trip with some proper pulls.

I'm amazed. The car pulls to 7k very hard and evenly with no effort, and the longer you stay in the throttle, the harder it pulls. These things shine in the upper rpm range, and can have you approaching 90-100 mph before you realize it.

No idle fluctuations, it finds it immediately at each stop. Even my wife commented on how good it sounded, and the difference it made in acceleration.

So overall, the pain of the install was definitely worth it. Bob's tune is spot on, and is as smooth as anything with no DISA dips or flat spots.

Next up will be MILVS, and if it gives you as much of an increase as I have read, I will be ecstatic!

[Rmtt]

Also I forgot to mention, my gas mileage went up almost 4 mpg over before even with me driving it pretty hard this first outing. This was all back roads driving too with a lot of stop and go.

That was surprising to say the least!

[desertman123]

Yes MILVS will add just as much fun as the headers did!

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Yes MILVS will add just as much fun as the headers did!

Nice.....hopefully it's an easier job! I can't see it being worse.

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

So I finished the exhaust. It started raining, and my wife wants me to help her with a few things......so tomorrow I will download my tune, and fire her up and see how she sounds.

Exhaust went in fairly easy, and the tips are huge!!

Originally Posted by Rmtt

So I finished the exhaust. It started raining, and my wife wants me to help her with a few things......so tomorrow I will download my tune, and fire her up and see how she sounds.

Exhaust went in fairly easy, and the tips are huge!!

audioooooo!

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Yes MILVS will add just as much fun as the headers did!

Originally Posted by desertman123

Yes MILVS will add just as much fun as the headers did!

I just went to Stage FP to get this done and boy does this car pull and sing all the way to the top of the rev range

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

I just went to Stage FP to get this done and boy does this car pull and sing all the way to the top of the rev range

So you did MILVS? That is next for me. I'm planning a week off near the end of September/first of October to do mine. Already have the tune waiting on me from Bob.

Does Bob have a dyno yet? I may just go with custom tuning if he does since I'm so close.

Can't remember....do you have headers yet? Just trying to get a gauge on how they compare on the ole butt dyno. I've heard some people say they felt more of an increase from the MILVS than they did from the headers.

After that.....I'm officially FBO.

I heard Milvs really help in the low rpm range as I know the headers really shine in the upper rpm range. (4K+)

Car with the 3:73's is a blast right now. Hopefully the milvs satisfy my wants....because I've seriously been thinking about going the FI route with ESS and their supercharger. Nothing radical....just the stock pulley that comes with it making around 5psi of boost.

I figured 300-320 whp along with the rear seat delete and a lighter battery (about 75lbs of savings) since I'm the only one in the car aside from my wife at times would be just enough to scratch that itch for a daily driver.......especially after driving my Corvette on the weekends!

[carscatscoffee15]

I did do the MILVs (as well as the 3IM) and coming from just an AA tune with AA headers /axle back exhaust it makes it feel like I really did add headers again. I feel like the best way to know if the MILVs really do make a difference is to do the job incrementally which I didn't do (opting to do it all at once to save money as well as time since they'd be in my engine bay already)

What I can say is that the car sings even louder and pulls hard especially in 2nd/3rd where it matters.. the DISA valves add more of the whoosh sound (more air coming in) and with the StageFP tune there isn't a hesitation in power between gears unlike the last tune which at times felt a little surge-y and in other situations felt like it needed more oomph. Being FBO, the car now definitely drives like it should!

Bob did get the Dyno in.. he's had it since June. I'm sure it'll be worth your while to go get it done there and even though I could have had an NYC shop do the 3IM/MILVs (my local trusted shop wanted to do this but they had no Dyno and I didn't wanna go with an OTS tune) I wanted the job done right as well as done by guys who have done this on multiple cars. Kinda wished I went with their tune (BPC at the time) from the beginning but I'm also glad I waited for this. Here's my car on the rollers





tbh I'm more than satisfied with what I have now and won't go to ESS route as I've heard conflicting things about this.. there's a guy out there who put a turbo on the N52 (togs_N52 on Instagram) but haven't gotten to chat with him about that job. Seems interesting. I wanna get back the power that I lost through parasitic transmission loss as I have an AT and do plan to convert to a MT in the cars life (the guys at stage even offered to help with that). Next batch of mods are lights for me (found a really good shop in NJ specializing in lights) and suspension work! Keep me posted if you do decide to do so it would be great to follow that build.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

I did do the MILVs (as well as the 3IM) and coming from just an AA tune with AA headers /axle back exhaust it makes it feel like I really did add headers again. I feel like the best way to know if the MILVs really do make a difference is to do the job incrementally which I didn't do (opting to do it all at once to save money as well as time since they'd be in my engine bay already)

What I can say is that the car sings even louder and pulls hard especially in 2nd/3rd where it matters.. the DISA valves add more of the whoosh sound (more air coming in) and with the StageFP tune there isn't a hesitation in power between gears unlike the last tune which at times felt a little surge-y and in other situations felt like it needed more oomph. Being FBO, the car now definitely drives like it should!

Bob did get the Dyno in.. he's had it since June. I'm sure it'll be worth your while to go get it done there and even though I could have had an NYC shop do the 3IM/MILVs (my local trusted shop wanted to do this but they had no Dyno and I didn't wanna go with an OTS tune) I wanted the job done right as well as done by guys who have done this on multiple cars. Kinda wished I went with their tune (BPC at the time) from the beginning but I'm also glad I waited for this. Here's my car on the rollers





tbh I'm more than satisfied with what I have now and won't go to ESS route as I've heard conflicting things about this.. there's a guy out there who put a turbo on the N52 (togs_N52 on Instagram) but haven't gotten to chat with him about that job. Seems interesting. I wanna get back the power that I lost through parasitic transmission loss as I have an AT and do plan to convert to a MT in the cars life (the guys at stage even offered to help with that). Next batch of mods are lights for me (found a really good shop in NJ specializing in lights) and suspension work! Keep me posted if you do decide to do so it would be great to follow that build.

Sending you a PM!