N52 + Headers w/out 3 Stage Manifold

Kgolf31 · 06-21-2015, 03:19 PM

Just curious, what power numbers are you guys making?

klick · 06-23-2015, 02:06 AM

Just received my set of AA headers today. No 3-stage IM, will report after install.

lowside67 · 06-23-2015, 11:54 AM

I am a little ways away from ordering and installing but I am going to do a before and after dyno to really clear up what the headers and software are worth on an otherwise stock N52.

Mark

TheSt|G · 06-23-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowside67

I am a little ways away from ordering and installing but I am going to do a before and after dyno to really clear up what the headers and software are worth on an otherwise stock N52.

Mark

Which headers?

lowside67 · 06-23-2015, 08:00 PM

Likely the AA. I'd like the Supersprints but over $1000 more seems hard to justify.

Blacksport · 06-23-2015, 09:38 PM

AA says on their website, they got 23 additional hp with the headers only, and another 9 with a reflash.

lowside67 · 06-23-2015, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacksport

AA says on their website, they got 23 additional hp with the headers only, and another 9 with a reflash.

Which seems generous as heck, but we will see. Supersprint claims 15-20hp for header, cat delete, and complete race exhaust... ie a ton more breathing room than just an AA header.

Mark

Blacksport · 06-24-2015, 10:35 PM

Oh it's definitely generous...my butt dyno says maybe 10 hp...there's no way they added 23 hp. I'd like to see 260+ real hp, not unrealistic "claimed" hp. With the stage 3 going on in a week or two, headers, slightly better intake with some grill scoops, Borla straight-thru replacing the very heavy stock muffler, and another re-flash, I'd say 260-265 will be a realistic and satisfying number.

Let me tell you something about headers...it's not just the hp, oh no no no...it's the look of those pipes, the more-alive feel, the sound; not the exhaust sound, which is certainly improved, but that tinkling sound that headers make near the engine...so sweet. Cars with headers are cool, cars without aren't.

Kgolf31 · 06-24-2015, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacksport

Oh it's definitely generous...my butt dyno says maybe 10 hp...there's no way they added 23 hp. I'd like to see 260+ real hp, not unrealistic "claimed" hp. With the stage 3 going on in a week or two, headers, slightly better intake with some grill scoops, Borla straight-thru replacing the very heavy stock muffler, and another re-flash, I'd say 260-265 will be a realistic and satisfying number.

Let me tell you something about headers...it's not just the hp, oh no no no...it's the look of those pipes, the more-alive feel, the sound; not the exhaust sound, which is certainly improved, but that tinkling sound that headers make near the engine...so sweet. Cars with headers are cool, cars without aren't.

I'm assuming you mean 260 at the crank?

TheSt|G · 06-26-2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowside67

Which seems generous as heck, but we will see. Supersprint claims 15-20hp for header, cat delete, and complete race exhaust... ie a ton more breathing room than just an AA header.

Mark

Supersprint is generally pretty conservative in their claims.

Taskmaster · 07-10-2015, 03:14 PM

230whp or so.

tetsuo111 · 07-10-2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

230whp or so.

Hey - Welcome back! Good to see you around

tetsuo111 · 07-10-2015, 04:33 PM

Not exactly the configuration you're looking for, but another data point might be helpful. I dyno'd 222whp with AA ceramic coated headers, DISA manifold, and AA tune. This is for an e91, N52, AT, xDrive. I estimated around 50hp drivetrain loss, and the numbers confirmed this assumption.

See Axiom's dyno thread for actual graphs and specifics.

Taskmaster · 07-10-2015, 05:49 PM

I think the N51 secondaries are more restrictive than the N52, meaning they don't get the full benefit of headers.

Kgolf31 · 07-10-2015, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I think the N51 secondaries are more restrictive than the N52, meaning they don't get the full benefit of headers.

I thought they were all 200 cell across the line. If I replace with other hi-flow secondaries you think I'll see some minor gain?

Taskmaster · 07-10-2015, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I thought they were all 200 cell across the line. If I replace with other hi-flow secondaries you think I'll see some minor gain?

Negative, I just rechecked realoem, and the E90 N51 cars have a unique part number for their primary AND secondary catalytic converters (ULEV I believe) the E82 is the same way, but the N51 has secondaries while the N52 does not.

In the dyno thread a few members made some gains with secondaries removed (which is surprising, considering the restrictive primaries were in place still.) And this was especially true on an N51 car....so to answer your question - yes, I'd put money that where your last 10-15whp was.

Taskmaster · 07-10-2015, 10:02 PM

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549958

States that some N52 models had the secondaries, but those were California emissions spec cars, as Federal spec just had primaries in the manifold.

Kgolf31 · 07-10-2015, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549958

States that some N52 models had the secondaries, but those were California emissions spec cars, as Federal spec just had primaries in the manifold.

Interesting, I thought all N52s had secondaries.

Taskmaster · 07-10-2015, 10:22 PM

Nope, a few people don't (for the 1 series that is) as far as I know, all US spec E90s do.

Taskmaster · 07-11-2015, 07:22 AM

@kgolf31 I made a thread on E90post you should check out.

chris82 · 07-15-2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I think the N51 secondaries are more restrictive than the N52, meaning they don't get the full benefit of headers.

I wonder if that's true and how can we find out? If so I'd probably consider replacing mine with the Supersprint straight pipes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I thought they were all 200 cell across the line. If I replace with other hi-flow secondaries you think I'll see some minor gain?

Only one way to find out! Maybe that is why you are not seeing the gains that the N52 guys are seeing with your AA headers.

Taskmaster · 07-15-2015, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris82

I wonder if that's true and how can we find out? If so I'd probably consider replacing mine with the Supersprint straight pipes.

Only one way to find out! Maybe that is why you are not seeing the gains that the N52 guys are seeing with your AA headers.

The N51 motors do have a unique part number for thier secondaries for both the E90 and E82.

As far as the BEST number for a N52 (the 128i racecar AA tuned) He's down 15whp/tq. (but that's on the dynojet he tested on, hard to compare different dynos) What really matters is how it runs/drives.

06-21-2015, 03:19 PM	#1
Kgolf31 Brigadier General 460 Rep 4,531 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ohio iTrader: (4)	N52 + Headers w/out 3 Stage Manifold Just curious, what power numbers are you guys making?
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06-23-2015, 02:06 AM	#2
klick Private First Class 17 Rep 110 Posts Drives: 2010 128i M Sport 6MT Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	Just received my set of AA headers today. No 3-stage IM, will report after install. __________________ E82 128i M-Sport 6MT - Black Metallic Sapphire - MFactory Helical LSD, Koni Yellow Sport Dampers, Swift Spec-R Springs, E90 M3 Front Sway Bar, M3 Front Control Arm Set, Whiteline Rear Subframe Bushings, Stoptech Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires, Active Autowerke N52 Tune, aFe Magnum FORCE Stage-2 CAI, Active Autowerke Headers, Custom Muffler Delete, BMW Performance SSK, ZHP Shift Knob, eBay Clutch Stop
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06-23-2015, 11:54 AM	#3
lowside67 First Lieutenant 219 Rep 361 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 128i Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	I am a little ways away from ordering and installing but I am going to do a before and after dyno to really clear up what the headers and software are worth on an otherwise stock N52. Mark __________________ 2011 BMW 128i - Check out my STX build thread!
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06-23-2015, 08:00 PM	#5
lowside67 First Lieutenant 219 Rep 361 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 128i Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	Likely the AA. I'd like the Supersprints but over $1000 more seems hard to justify. __________________ 2011 BMW 128i - Check out my STX build thread!
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06-23-2015, 09:38 PM	#6
Blacksport Second Lieutenant 54 Rep 246 Posts Drives: 2013 128i Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ft Lauderdale iTrader: (0)	AA says on their website, they got 23 additional hp with the headers only, and another 9 with a reflash. __________________ '13 128i 6sp, '19 Cherokee Ltd 3.2, '17 Ducati SuperSport S *Gone But Not Forgotten:* 74 Z28, 77 Datsun 280Z (1st 5sp in US), 92 Nissan 300ZTT, 94 MB SL600 V12, 01 M Roadster, 66 Yamaha TwinJet 100, 70 Suzuki X6 Hustler *Race:* GP/FP Spitfire SCCA, Merlyn FF SCCA, Mazda RX7 IMSA GTU, Yamaha FZR 400 AMA.
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06-24-2015, 10:35 PM	#8
Blacksport Second Lieutenant 54 Rep 246 Posts Drives: 2013 128i Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ft Lauderdale iTrader: (0)	Oh it's definitely generous...my butt dyno says maybe 10 hp...there's no way they added 23 hp. I'd like to see 260+ real hp, not unrealistic "claimed" hp. With the stage 3 going on in a week or two, headers, slightly better intake with some grill scoops, Borla straight-thru replacing the very heavy stock muffler, and another re-flash, I'd say 260-265 will be a realistic and satisfying number. Let me tell you something about headers...it's not just the hp, oh no no no...it's the look of those pipes, the more-alive feel, the sound; not the exhaust sound, which is certainly improved, but that tinkling sound that headers make near the engine...so sweet. Cars with headers are cool, cars without aren't. __________________ '13 128i 6sp, '19 Cherokee Ltd 3.2, '17 Ducati SuperSport S *Gone But Not Forgotten:* 74 Z28, 77 Datsun 280Z (1st 5sp in US), 92 Nissan 300ZTT, 94 MB SL600 V12, 01 M Roadster, 66 Yamaha TwinJet 100, 70 Suzuki X6 Hustler *Race:* GP/FP Spitfire SCCA, Merlyn FF SCCA, Mazda RX7 IMSA GTU, Yamaha FZR 400 AMA.
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07-10-2015, 03:14 PM	#11
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	230whp or so.
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07-10-2015, 04:33 PM	#13
tetsuo111 Save the Manuals! 1227 Rep 1,239 Posts Drives: E91 RWD 6MT, X3, Ducati S4R Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: PNW iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E91 6MT RWD &q ... [0.00] 2005 Ducati S4R 996 [0.00] 2000 Ducati M750 [0.00] RIP - 2011 E91 328i ... [10.00]	Not exactly the configuration you're looking for, but another data point might be helpful. I dyno'd 222whp with AA ceramic coated headers, DISA manifold, and AA tune. This is for an e91, N52, AT, xDrive. I estimated around 50hp drivetrain loss, and the numbers confirmed this assumption. See Axiom's dyno thread for actual graphs and specifics. __________________ 2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon \| 3,185lbs \| 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon \| Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP \| Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC \| Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 \| Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks \| Cool: CSF \| PCA #2018100384 \| BMW CCA #505794
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07-10-2015, 05:49 PM	#14
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	I think the N51 secondaries are more restrictive than the N52, meaning they don't get the full benefit of headers.
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07-10-2015, 10:02 PM	#17
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549958 States that some N52 models had the secondaries, but those were California emissions spec cars, as Federal spec just had primaries in the manifold.
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07-10-2015, 10:22 PM	#19
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	Nope, a few people don't (for the 1 series that is) as far as I know, all US spec E90s do.
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07-11-2015, 07:22 AM	#20
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	@kgolf31 I made a thread on E90post you should check out.
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